Critical Insights into the Endless Mode of a Favorite Game

[KK&KK]

I absolutely love this game, to the extent that I've spent 40 hours playing it.
Yet, I still feel it's not quite enough.
Let me first talk about the bugs I encountered. When I choose a Relic reward after winning a level, there seems to be an issue with the UI layering. When I hover my mouse over the Relic's tooltip, the mouse passes through to other layers, displaying tooltips from the underlying layers. Based on my understanding of game engines, this might be due to the semi-transparent black background not blocking mouse hits, and the same issue applies to the Relic icon UI.
Next, when I played Misty Graveyard (Endless Mode), while I enjoy the game, I can't say I enjoy this mode. It doesn't give me the exhilarating feeling that other Roguelike and endless mode games provide. Unless the difficulty spikes to the point of numerical breakdown, making me feel like I've played for too long, then I might choose to end the game and start again with a different build the next time.
For instance, there's a reward that I find utterly baffling: gaining a Relic but randomly losing another one. It feels stupid to me. Although I understand that the negative effect might be randomly paired, the fact that I 'lose a Relic' still feels dumb.
Also, the reward that boosts the properties of currently placed defense towers in the scenario but not for newly constructed ones feels like a handout. Even if the numerical increase is lower, I think it's a stupid design to only boost the properties of towers already on the scene.
In Endless Mode, after unlocking a wall using the 'Unlock' skill, if I choose not to pick it up, I can still decide to pick it up or not after the next wave. This mechanism persists through many waves. However, once I enter the Rogue reward selection, I can't pick it up anymore, which feels more like a bug than a game mechanism. But what I mean by not feeling satisfied isn't this; rather, it's the extreme difficulty in unlocking walls in Endless Mode. I can only unlock once per round, or rely on monsters dropping treasure chests containing unlock cards. This makes the endless mode feel roughly designed. In Normal Mode, I can accept this mechanism, and I even enjoy playing the Frost Ruins level. But in Endless Mode, I don't feel the same. I think an enjoyable endless mode should allow players to devise defensive formations and eagerly await enemy waves. Therefore, I find the current design of endless mode uninteresting, especially considering that the difficulty is already high in the first 15 waves.
The difficulty design and game mechanism restrictions in Endless Mode seem tailored for leaderboards. But if that's the case, why allow players who seemingly cheat to reach 1000 waves to stay on top? At least, a smarter approach could be taken, like only displaying players near your rank instead of showing the top players at first glance, or even allowing players to judge based on others' survival counts whether they're cheating.
In Endless Mode, characters can't be selected, which makes the character skills designed in Normal Mode feel quite a pity. I even hoped to choose different characters for Endless Mode difficulty. I've spent most of my time in Normal Mode, and every time I felt like I could keep fighting, the level would end. When I saw there was an Endless Mode, I was disappointed to find that characters couldn't be selected.
I believe that whether a Roguelike game is fun depends not only on its creativity and gameplay but also on whether its endless mode can satisfy players, rather than placing numerous restrictions solely for leaderboards.

[RefiCHL]

Thanks for the super long feedback!

For the tooltip bug you mentioned, do you remember what was triggering the tooltip? I guess I missed adding the check for something. It would be helpful if you remember which it was.

For the endless mode, the Misty Graveyard was only intended to be an experiment & special event for Halloween. But people seemed to be enjoying it, so I decided to keep it open until the next one is available. That's why there were no character/block/rune selections, just to keep it simple so it's easier for me to figure out what needs to be improved. It turns out the endless mode was wayyyy more complicated than I expected (it's almost like making another TD game...with all the limitations in Emberward), and I'm actually glad I didn't activate everything in the first experiment. 😆

Oh, and one thing I found out from the Misty Graveyard is, people have really diverse opinions on RNG. Some told me they think RNG makes it much more interesting, some really hated it. So I guess the solution would be making different endless modes and letting people decide which one they prefer to play.

Currently, I'll still be focusing on roguelite mode until the final chapter is finished, then I'll be spending more time on the endless mode and other features. Let me know if there's any other suggestions!

[Golodniy Krolik]

regarding the error: after finishing the level, when selecting a relic, when you hover over it, a pop-up hint for upgrading the tower using a card is displayed, this is especially noticeable when you play as Tana the sorcerer, when all your towers are buffed and wherever you hover, it shows a buff hint, not a relic

[KK&KK]

Originally posted by RefiCHL:

Thanks for the super long feedback!

For the tooltip bug you mentioned, do you remember what was triggering the tooltip? I guess I missed adding the check for something. It would be helpful if you remember which it was.

For the endless mode, the Misty Graveyard was only intended to be an experiment & special event for Halloween. But people seemed to be enjoying it, so I decided to keep it open until the next one is available. That's why there were no character/block/rune selections, just to keep it simple so it's easier for me to figure out what needs to be improved. It turns out the endless mode was wayyyy more complicated than I expected (it's almost like making another TD game...with all the limitations in Emberward), and I'm actually glad I didn't activate everything in the first experiment. 😆

Oh, and one thing I found out from the Misty Graveyard is, people have really diverse opinions on RNG. Some told me they think RNG makes it much more interesting, some really hated it. So I guess the solution would be making different endless modes and letting people decide which one they prefer to play.

Currently, I'll still be focusing on roguelite mode until the final chapter is finished, then I'll be spending more time on the endless mode and other features. Let me know if there's any other suggestions!

Hey there! Sorry for the delayed response – I was genuinely surprised to see a developer respond personally; that's awesome! Over the past few days, I've been diving back into the game (now sitting at nearly 70 hours, ha!), trying to wrap my head around why I felt so conflicted about Endless Mode before.

After revisiting my previous posts, I think I've pinpointed the issue. Let me clarify: the mode is fun at its core. But here's the deal – in Endless Mode, it sometimes feels more like watching numbers climb than actually playing. Even with all the cool damage types like fire and lightning, once I've set up my maze and towers, there's not much left for me to do. Tweaking my defenses later is out of the question because removing upgraded towers with Rogue-like buffs costs way too much, especially when dismantling them gives back peanuts compared to what I invested. It feels like my whole run is shackled by my early-game decisions.

Quick question – is the tower limit/FPS drop the reason why Endless Mode has to become this wild numbers race? Like, do enemies get their stats pumped up just to force a game over before performance takes a dive? If so, man, that's rough. This mode has so much untapped potential beyond just "build it and watch the numbers fight."

I mentioned earlier that it only "looks" interesting because it relies on rapidly inflating numbers to speed up game progress. This is a poor design choice that seems inevitable in any Rogue-like, but truly engaging games find clever ways to delay this from happening too soon.

[VJFranzK]

I noticed that it can be hard to pick up Treasure Chests. Maybe a larger "hitbox" to click on them or something?
Especially if there is other stuff in the way, walls, info windows, etc.

[大純潔]

yeS！！！！！！！！！！！！！！