Tower slots and tower drafts

[Abandon]

Greetings here. As introduction, I want to say that I initially played a hacked version, then decided a few months later to buy it. Great game :) Also I do make games myself, but not tower defenses x) I only play in hard now, and got decent success although still failing at times.

So, a decision that really intrigues me is the number of tower slots, and also the amount of towers that we draft throughout runs opposed to the number of slots.

1) I feel like there's 1 or 2 tower slots too many. I almost never needed that many slots, so it's useless, but I also think that it works to the detriment of the game because players cycle through all the turrets faster.
-> With less towers, the choices would be more meaningful, because right now I can pick 2 AoE, 2 mono, 1 burn and 1 chill every single run.
-> You only need 3 runs to see all turrets or something like so, if you pick new ones each time.

2) Our time is wasted with late game tower drafts despite the fact that we are fully equipped quite rapidly. That and the fact that buying towers in shops is usually a bad decision since you can get towers for free much later, and those free drafts will be wasted if you buy towers before they come. Buying towers can help early game, sure, but are a loss later on.

[Birdorf]

With Steam's refund policy, why did you decide to steal it in the first place?

[Abandon]

Originally posted by Birdorf:

With Steam's refund policy, why did you decide to steal it in the first place?

Because I had no money back then. Hacking is different from stealing bc it does not imply taking away a physical property that therefore cannot be replaced. And if I hadn't hack it, I would have never play it back then, so what's the diff?

Anyhow, this isn't the point of this post.

[Birdorf]

If I can't afford something I wait until I can. Physical or digital, it makes no difference.

If it wasn't the point of the post why mention it at all?

[Abandon]

Just to aknowledge that fact. But you seem to focus on it for whatever reason. It defintely made a difference since I was able to play the game months before I could get the money to afford it.
Beyond that, if you have a problem with hacking, just go complain somewhere else.

[jafferduo]

Originally posted by Abandon:

1) I feel like there's 1 or 2 tower slots too many. I almost never needed that many slots, so it's useless, but I also think that it works to the detriment of the game because players cycle through all the turrets faster.
-> With less towers, the choices would be more meaningful, because right now I can pick 2 AoE, 2 mono, 1 burn and 1 chill every single run.
-> You only need 3 runs to see all turrets or something like so, if you pick new ones each time.

There's a relic that needs 5 elements to activate, so it will occupy 5 slots, plus some 2*2 or 3*3 ones, 8 slots is reasonable.

[Abandon]

I had this relic in mind, but you countered your own argument. It ONLY requires 5 slots, less if you have chilling poison, so it's not a problem. In those 5 slots, you may have all elements and 1 or even 2 2x2 towers. There's really no need for an extra 3 towers. Maybe 1 or 2, but 3 ruins the idea of builds since you will have towers with overlapping effects, or just a cover for every situation.

[jafferduo]

The issue you mention here is not a big deal, and I do not "counter my own argument" as you said.
There are other functional towers, like Drill Tower which can create a random boost tile after it upgrades.
And a Relic names "Golden Roulette" that will verify the price of all towers hugely, so if you have more different towers in hand, you'll be less likely to get all towers' price increased.
Why do we have to restrict the freedom like that?

[Abandon]

No it's not big deal of course, more like a flavor problem in my opinion. And yes you definitely do because you actually need 5 slots to have 5 elements ^^' As simple as that. With 6 or even 7 slots, you have more than enough room to benefit from it, or any other mechanic you have mentioned in your last msg.

"Why do we have to restrict the freedom like that?"
1) Because restriction breeds creativity. If you have most of the tools at hand, you don't have to imagine clever plans to make it work since you literally have more than enough.
2) Builds only truly make sense if you are restricted. There is no poison build for example if you can also have burn, chill and why not a scrap tower at the same time. Having restricted choices mean that they matter more, and that you have to think about that to use, and what not to use.
3) Player freedom, and freedom in general, is an extremely vague concept and can't really be considered as an argument in most situations. You want freedom? Why don't you preach for 12 slots then? That's what it means. It's a spectrum, and the right spot is a balance, the correct balance between the pressure of choice and a satisfying amount of tools to beat the game.

[Doc Savage]

I don't agree. I already feel limited and pigeon holed, and when RNGesus decides he don't wanna play nice that will make a dead run and restart (...which this game is awful at BTW...) instead of sticking with it and saving a run by getting a good last tower or two.

Restriction does not breed creativity. It just makes for a lot of wasted time and having to get too specific right away.

It limits what synergies you can explore, and makes every game make it or break it with no wiggle room for changing direction and saving runs that are simply garbage 6 towers in. I find that particularly rewarding and challenging, saving a dead run and carrying the day.

What *should* happen is a slider for number of slots just like sliders for difficulty in the turrets themselves and the blocks. That way if you want to be "creative" you can, and no one will give a toss. Also, I can play how I want without someone pontificating about what creativity is or trying to legislate what fun should be.

Options are best, not trying to define for everyone else what should or should not be.

Cheers..!

[Abandon]

I guess we have all a different experience about this. Personally I have never felt that any of my runs are dead runs by any possible means. The game gives us more than enough turret, block and relic choices to never get stuck. I don't mean that I win 100% of the time in Hard, but I would never blame my losses on RNGesus in this game, unlike some other games. If I may, I would advice you to look for a guide, my friend.

"Restriction does not breed creativity. It just makes for a lot of wasted time and having to get too specific right away."
Definitely not. I could quote dozens upon dozens of games that leave you with very limited tools, like Darkest Dungeon and its 2 slots inventories + 4 spell slots per character. it ain't much, and yet you can do a lot of different builds with most characters. When it comes to Emberward, many relics serve a supporting role, which means that you still have room to find effective combos later on :) I rarely ever have a build before the 2nd or 3rd Relic, and if so, it's because the initial draft of turrets + relics inspired me to go for a specific thing.

Personally, I rarely ever use more than 5 towers in a given level, so I disagree with your "make it or break it". You only truly require 1 cheap AoE and 1 cheap mono, 1 expensive AoE and 1 expensive mono as well as 1 or 2 cc turrets. That's it.

[Doc Savage]

We see creativity very differently.

I don't need a guide, I have every flame and every board beat save the last one that I'm messing about with on the Frozen Tundra in between endless runs. I like to play around and run combos and see what happens. Not really worried about winning, just like the options and the fun that can be had mixing and matching.

I'll stick with wanting options, always. It just lets everyone enjoy the game, which IIRC is the whole point of it existing.

Thankfully, this Dev does a lot of thinking and doesn't just try to put everyone in their Dev play is the only way to play box. They get that people play different.

Thanks for the time..!

Cheers..!