A lot of Cope.

[Lucifer Verone]

I've asked people who genuinely like this game and their responses were valid and pointed out the games short comings along with what they liked. But the rest of the people who go to bat for this game are just diminishing other games in order to prop this game up. Honestly from what I have seen from people is that they generally like the combat and exploration in this game and that is a constant. But when comparing this game to Skyrim/Oblivion etc there are things missing from it, almost as if they intentionally made it so that players would only focus on combat. Even then it does look like an MMO style combat for a single player game.

What I am trying to get at is, since we already know the numbers it did on steam didnt break 20k+ and the game itself is luke warm to many people, why are some people vehemently defending this game and claiming its a success and better than its predecessors in the genre while simultaneously ignoring the good aspects and comparisons of those games?

[Loiya]

Първоначално публикувано от archonsod:

Първоначално публикувано от Loiya:

massively-multiplayer-online, which generally comes with the connotation that you'll come across other players "naturally"/running around as opposed to being matched with them, though taken literally any game with matchmaking qualifies for it

Erm, no. Not unless you're using definitions so outside what everyone else is you may as well be speaking a foreign language. The key part of the MMO definition is 'massively'. Generally there because you need a server or seven to support the number of concurrent players. A multiplayer game on the other hand doesn't even require a network.
about themselves than anything related to the game.

yeah sorry I thought that went without saying, should've been clearer mb

[Monochromatic Spider]

Първоначално публикувано от Lucifer Verone:

Първоначално публикувано от Loiya:

honey that first line ain't fooling anyone

Thieves Guild is legit the best in that game but please tell me what's good about these:

Dark Brotherhood - leader kills herself and makes it everyone's problem for no reason. straight-up illusory tension. "oh but you kill the emperor!" a weightless character with a title is still a weightless character. could've been interesting if it was about infiltrating his guards/servants for a few weeks/months and learning more and more about the emperor in the process to actually flesh him out as a character (and even possibly betray the brotherhood and swear fealty to him), but that's way too smart for a lead writer that can't even be bothered to coordinate moderate consistency

Dawnguard - their entire personality is "must kill vampires" and the vampire faction is equally insubstantial, the Falmer subplot goes nowhere and has a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ villain with no motivation, literally the only good part of this entire DLC is the fact that the soulcairn was introduced to the lore (sure as hell not the actual location)

College of Winterhold - tries to be an actual school for a single quest, abandons that premise and devolves into being another mage's guild questline with a nothing villain and a nothing mcguffin. also magic is Just Awful in this game!

Companions - a barebones story with werewolves haphazardly thrown into it for some reason

Civil War - Ulfric Stormcloak is a total ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ racist idiot that needlessly killed a child, declared war on an empire instead of choosing to ally themselves with them, and that's the BEST CASE SCENARIO because after he wins he's basically dooming Skyrim to being taken over by the High Elves that are Really Good At Casting Meteor. like bro what is your PLAN your city is going to be a CRATER and you drove off the ONE FACTION that would help you avoid that!

and Laid to Rest?? I can't even have fun coming up with a response to that, you don't get to tack on a ghost child to a basic-♥♥♥♥♥ vampire cave extermination and expect that to make it better

Literally your subjective opinion. Doesnt change anything. You dont like it, or want to over simplify them and make it so that Avowed looks superior and gamechanging then by all means go ahead, but we both know that story isnt a strong point of this game. It isnt going to change anything.

It's obviously his opinion, and opinions are by definition subjective so talking about subjective opinions is like taking about unmarried bachelors or insane Trump-quotes.

Roses are red, violets are blue, flowers have colors, and pleonasms and redundant descriptions are a waste of everyone's time. :-)

Linguistic grief aside, he's not wrong, is he? I don't know that Avowed's quests are good. But it's kind of hard to argue that most of the quests in Skyrim are a bit lackluster, if you look at them with a little bit of objective analysis.

There's a lot of grand emotion in those quests but they don't really make sense. And some of it gets really weird. Like, in the Thieves Guild quest line you basically give your soul to Nocturnal, so how does the Companion quest line work after that? Your soul is already spoken for.

And it gets super weird if you've committed your soul to both Nocturnal and Hircine and then want to do the main quest where you're faffing about in Sovngarde. And everybody treats you like you're actually going to go there eventually.

Even if we disregard that, you have to admit that College quest was absolute nonsense. Good nonsense, over the top McGuffin nonsense, but nonsense all the same. And it makes absolutely no sense why this all has to be done by some rookie that can barely cast a spell, and it makes even less sense to then elevate that rookie into being the absentee (honorary) guild master that doesn't really do a darn thing for the guild beyond finding the old guy's lost gear that he keeps throwing away.

And don't get me started on the Civil War. You can't even murder the camps without mods. And you can literally walk right in to say hi to Ulfric, but you can't murder him and end the rebellion painlessly then and there? Why not?

I'm a dragonborn werewolf archmage of the college with a vampire girlfriend, I murder dragons for fun and profit, and I butcher Thalmor because the sun rises in the East and today is a day ending in the letter y. I'm standing right next to him. All it takes is one smack of my sword and the rebellion is broken. Who stops me? What stops me?

[Loiya]

Първоначално публикувано от GuNNuP:

Първоначално публикувано от Loiya:

wait is that actually the dividing line? genuinely curious

yes, because Multiplayer games where multiplayer games, like BF and other muliplayer games had 128v128. Which is still a multiplayer game. Then MMOs came out and more than 256 players where able to interact with eachother within one town. Within a server. For example while pax dei concurrency is likely less. but within each node it can support up to 4000 people, and there is 8+ servers per provence tying everything together. And MMOs typically have more than one server attached within the game world it's self.

Any game that is "coined" MMORPG, or MMO that doesn't have that capacity, is just marketing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to try and rope in with a at the time, the most popular genre.

so it's less of a "hard definition" and more of a "this is the highest server pop anyone has gone without calling themselves an mmo" which Might As Well Be the dividing line

yeah that's kinda cool, thanks bruv

[ErizoX]

People who wasted so much on this game, don't want to admit that looks and feels like a game released 15 years ago (at least)

It's our fault for buying such trash at those prices, they don't care as long as we buy it.

[Metal chick]

I like a lot about the game, but I do have one major disappointing aspect. Combat/ companion/gear related.

The lack of control of companions ...wasted gear.... As a mage, I have yet to find a non melee special weapon. If I could at least give these to my companions, that would be great.

Improving the AI of companions would be great as well. They fight random mobs when the Envoy (mage like) is getting pummeled. Or let us control them more.

Controlling only the main and having very little input of companions, esp in combat, is very frustrating. I have stopped playing games that have this playstyle, but the rest of Avowed is still too good for that as of now, partway through the second area.

[Loiya]

Първоначално публикувано от Metal chick:

I like a lot about the game, but I do have one major disappointing aspect. Combat/ companion/gear related.

The lack of control of companions ...wasted gear.... As a mage, I have yet to find a non melee special weapon. If I could at least give these to my companions, that would be great.

Improving the AI of companions would be great as well. They fight random mobs when the Envoy (mage like) is getting pummeled. Or let us control them more.

Controlling only the main and having very little input of companions, esp in combat, is very frustrating. I have stopped playing games that have this playstyle, but the rest of Avowed is still too good for that as of now, partway through the second area.

you can kinda get around that third bit by using Kai's aggro-drawing moves but yeah, being able to give direct orders with the radial menu would Just Wonderful

companion equipment needs to be customizable at the very least, and you can't just give one of them an incendiary blunderbuss and NOT let the player use that category too WHO DOES THAT

[Nezchrynliir]

Първоначално публикувано от ErizoX:

People who wasted so much on this game, don't want to admit that looks and feels like a game released 15 years ago (at least)

It's our fault for buying such trash at those prices, they don't care as long as we buy it.

Exactly, they've come to rely on us blindly buying whatever slop is put in front of us. The game is not the product, we are the product and the game is the bait. Plus with all of the DEI handouts being cut off studios have to rely on sales and quality or else investors are going to call for heads to roll. Many of these games were started when handouts were offered by the government, those days are gone. Now studios must exist on their own games merits, maybe this will inspire change.

[NomadTR]

Първоначално публикувано от GuNNuP:

What MMORPG has combat like this? I mean I would love to play it.

ESO combat is somewhat similar.

[whit]

I got a little bit of cope, like soap on a rope.

[Grubbs008]

Първоначално публикувано от Jimelu:

This game is just the Netflix adaptation of Skyrim.

Maybe Hulu

[archonsod]

Първоначално публикувано от GuNNuP:

yes, because Multiplayer games where multiplayer games, like BF and other muliplayer games had 128v128. Which is still a multiplayer game.

Yeah, but Nintendo have Tetris that can do 99 players, so that doesn't work :P

Generally the other key defining feature of an MMO is persistence; the game you log into on Friday is the same game, and has been running, since you logged in on Monday. With a multiplayer game the game is usually only running while the players are actively playing.

Първоначално публикувано от Monochromatic Spider:

There's a lot of grand emotion in those quests but they don't really make sense. And some of it gets really weird. Like, in the Thieves Guild quest line you basically give your soul to Nocturnal, so how does the Companion quest line work after that? Your soul is already spoken for.

Yup. It's why I describe them as a theme park. Each of the storylines in Skyrim exist in isolation from each other. Hence they're like theme park rides; you jump on the Mages Guild ride, it's fun while it lasts, but once it's over the only thing you're left with is a souvenir. Avowed on the other hand has a cohesive narrative where many of the storylines interact and influence each other in different ways. It's pretty much always been the heart of Obsidian's approach; they allow you to play with the narrative in the way TES let's you play with the world.

[GuNNuP]

Първоначално публикувано от archonsod:

Първоначално публикувано от GuNNuP:

yes, because Multiplayer games where multiplayer games, like BF and other muliplayer games had 128v128. Which is still a multiplayer game.

Yeah, but Nintendo have Tetris that can do 99 players, so that doesn't work :P

Generally the other key defining feature of an MMO is persistence; the game you log into on Friday is the same game, and has been running, since you logged in on Monday. With a multiplayer game the game is usually only running while the players are actively playing.

Първоначално публикувано от Monochromatic Spider:

There's a lot of grand emotion in those quests but they don't really make sense. And some of it gets really weird. Like, in the Thieves Guild quest line you basically give your soul to Nocturnal, so how does the Companion quest line work after that? Your soul is already spoken for.

Yup. It's why I describe them as a theme park. Each of the storylines in Skyrim exist in isolation from each other. Hence they're like theme park rides; you jump on the Mages Guild ride, it's fun while it lasts, but once it's over the only thing you're left with is a souvenir. Avowed on the other hand has a cohesive narrative where many of the storylines interact and influence each other in different ways. It's pretty much always been the heart of Obsidian's approach; they allow you to play with the narrative in the way TES let's you play with the world.

tetris is not an mmo, that's why it works...

[Sol4rSky]

Първоначално публикувано от Jimelu:

This game is just the Netflix adaptation of Skyrim.

Man it's been awhile since the game came out, stop it. This game is nothing like Skyrim lol. It's closer to Mass Effect or MEssiah Might and Magic if anything, at least if you're gonna bash a game do it proper