Avowed

Avowed

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spiritman 8 dez. 2024 às 3:05
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So then, where are the conservative/Christian game developers?
There are so many indie titles made by small teams or even just one person. Clearly amongst all these people who complain that video games don't reflect their worldview there have to be some talented programmers and artists? Yet even indie titles are constantly attacked as woke?
So how come? Or is it really that creatives tend to be left leaning by default, just like higher intelligence is joined with higher openness?
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MARegulus 11 dez. 2024 às 18:15 
Originalmente postado por omgitsbees:
Originalmente postado por DMaster2:
Lmao you can't be serious.

Ever heard of Aquinas, Descartes, Kierkegaard and more? You should give them a read, you could open your mind some more hopefully.

lol good job only being able to list people who have been dead for hundreds of years. You won't find anyone that is Christian, or conservative, that is intelligent or educated.

Most historical figures were also more likely Christian more in the social sense. Michelangelo painted the roof of the Sistine Chapel...but his most famous sculpture was a chiseled (yes, I know it's a lazy pun) naked guy. Modern Christians would start an online campaign to get art removed that they would consider "controversial" or "woke" (David included). Imagine Michelangelo painting an anti-abortion message on the back of his wagon because he heard his time's version of Rush Limbaugh screeching about it on the street corner for coins.

It's Thinkers vs. Followers. There are thinking/independent Christians who have a creative spark, but the vast majority are not because that is, by design, what Christianity is. It was made to control people; demand obedience and conformity which are usually things which stifle original, artistic thoughts. It's very telling how many anti-woke Christians STILL don't realize they call people "sheep or sheeple" as a pejorative even though one of the CENTRAL PARABLES OF THEIR ENTIRE BELIEF SYSTEM REGARDS THEM AS SHEEP. (Christ is the Shepherd, his followers, his flock/sheep).

At some point the real sheep stopped saying "bah! bah!" and starting saying "woke! woke!" and figure changing the noises they make changes what they are all while still getting fleeced for all their worth by their Christian "Shepherds" who keep telling them about the wolves on the other side of the trees!

You're not going to get a lot of good art from sheep.
Quillithe 11 dez. 2024 às 19:14 
Originalmente postado por MARegulus:
Originalmente postado por omgitsbees:

lol good job only being able to list people who have been dead for hundreds of years. You won't find anyone that is Christian, or conservative, that is intelligent or educated.

Most historical figures were also more likely Christian more in the social sense. Michelangelo painted the roof of the Sistine Chapel...but his most famous sculpture was a chiseled (yes, I know it's a lazy pun) naked guy. Modern Christians would start an online campaign to get art removed that they would consider "controversial" or "woke" (David included). Imagine Michelangelo painting an anti-abortion message on the back of his wagon because he heard his time's version of Rush Limbaugh screeching about it on the street corner for coins.
It's also worth noting that Michelangelo wrote a lot of love poems to men. And Leonardo da Vinci was charged with sodomy.

They painted a lot of religious art because that's what people commissioned, and it was very much the default of the time. But although I'm not saying they were secretly not Christian, they certainly weren't conservative Christians.
Reddz 11 dez. 2024 às 23:47 
"Art is a waste, better to spend that time mining iron." (conservatives circa 1800)

"Video games are a waste, better to spend that time working on the farm or in the factory." (conservatives circa 1980)

"Pokemon are a demonic influence invading our children's schools and tainting their pure christian minds." (american conservatives circa 2000)



"We exude traditional values and masculinity... Now excuse me while I slay this imaginary dragon from behind my desk." (confused coping nerds post 2015)
DrZann 11 dez. 2024 às 23:57 
Originalmente postado por DMaster2:
Originalmente postado por omgitsbees:
Christians & conservatives, tend to be poorly educated. They are an anti-intellectual group after all.
Lmao you can't be serious.

Ever heard of Aquinas, Descartes, Kierkegaard and more? You should give them a read, you could open your mind some more hopefully.
Most boring reading list ever. Try Éliphas Lévi or Giovanni Pico della Mirandola. Read the source code of Temple OS.
There is no such thing as "conservative art" for art is of essence subversive, transgressive, untimely... It belongs to the realms of libidinal play.

"Rilke presents art as a way of life, “like religion, science, or even socialism,” “distinguished from other interpretations of life by the fact that it is not a product of the times, and appears, so to speak, as the Weltanschauung of the ultimate goal,” and as “the sensuous possibility of new worlds and times.” The work of art is “always in response to a present time,” but “the times are resistance”; “it is only from this tension between contemporary currents and the artist’s untimely conception of life that there arises a series of small discharges [Befreiungen], which are the work of art.”

Thus the dialectic between art and society derives from the artist’s contact with the ultimate essence of humanity, which is also humanity’s ultimate goal: “History is the index of men born too soon.” And as for the artist, “Again and again someone in the crowd wakes up, he has no ground in the crowd, and he emerges according to much broader laws. He carries strange customs with him and demands room for bold gestures. The future speaks ruthlessly through him.” But as spokesmen for the essence and for the future, artists are the spokesmen for what is repressed in the present: “Their winged heart everywhere beats against the walls of their time; their work was that which was not resolved in the lives they lived.”

The artist is compared by Rilke to “a dancer whose movements are broken by the constraint of his cell. That which finds no expression in his steps and the limited swing of his arms, comes in exhaustion from his lips, or else he has to scratch the unlived lines of his body into the walls with his wounded fingers.” Art is a way of life faithful to the natural instincts, and therefore faithful to childhood: “Not any self-control or self-limitation for the sake of specific ends, but rather a carefree letting go of oneself: not caution, but rather a wise blindness; not working to acquire silent, slowly increasing possessions, but rather a continuous squandering of all perishable values. This way of being has something naive and instinctive [Unwillkürliches] about it, and resembles that period of the unconscious [des Unbewussten] best characterized by a joyous confidence, namely the period of childhood.” The child “has no anxiety about losing things.” Everything the child has sensed passes through his love, and is illuminated by it: “And whatever has once been lit up in love remains as an image, never more to be lost, and the image is possession; that is why children are so rich.” (Rilke’s thought is complemented by Freud’s remark on happiness: “Happiness is the deferred fulfillment of a prehistoric wish. That is why wealth brings so little happiness; money is not an infantile wish.” ) The artist is the man who refuses initiation through education into the existing order, remains faithful to his own childhood being, and thus becomes “a human being in the spirit of all times, an artist.” Hence the artist tree is distinguished by profounder roots in the dark unconscious: “Artists extend much farther down into the warmth of all Becoming; in them other juices rise into fruit.”"
Christ was anti-conservative, an offense to the values and expectations of established Jewish and Roman society and religion alike. Those who authentically live in the spirit of Christ are those whom the society today deems as outside of it, as perverse, transgressive, gnostic, queer... Christ would joyously piss on a depiction of Crucifixion in a "Christian" church.
Butcher 12 dez. 2024 às 3:45 
Originalmente postado por Retrado the Barbarian:
Christ was anti-conservative, an offense to the values and expectations of established Jewish and Roman society and religion alike. Those who authentically live in the spirit of Christ are those whom the society today deems as outside of it, as perverse, transgressive, gnostic, queer... Christ would joyously piss on a depiction of Crucifixion in a "Christian" church.
Don't mix Romans in, they considered him to be harmless madman wanted to let him go.
there is no band 12 dez. 2024 às 9:49 
Originalmente postado por Retrado the Barbarian:
Christ was anti-conservative, an offense to the values and expectations of established Jewish and Roman society and religion alike. Those who authentically live in the spirit of Christ are those whom the society today deems as outside of it, as perverse, transgressive, gnostic, queer... Christ would joyously piss on a depiction of Crucifixion in a "Christian" church.
One of the world's hilarities: the guy whom nazis worship as god was a Jewish revolutionary socialist.
kgmi 12 dez. 2024 às 12:05 
Conservatives used to make all the amazing titles back in the 80s 90s early 2ks
then woke leftards took over
Kopyrda 12 dez. 2024 às 12:41 
Dunno, maybe those more conservative are smart enough to realize that gamers in general just want to have good games not infected with any ideologies. Or at least written well enough to justify it. For example, New Vegas has two gay companions, but they are well written, so nobody cares.
Another example - Underrail has apparently very conservative dev... but I didn't learn it from the game itself despite about 70 hours spent in it - only on some leftist subreddit, where people were butthurt about his views. That's because guy was smart enough to keep his personal views out of his game. Simple enough. Too bad many not-indie devs forget about it.
Frankly, I have no idea what are the political views of devs of many of my favourite games - that's because their devs KNOW their fanbase doesn't give a damn about them. They focus on creating good games, nothing more.
Última alteração por Kopyrda; 12 dez. 2024 às 12:47
GolfLover420 12 dez. 2024 às 16:36 
Originalmente postado por Retrado the Barbarian:
Christ was anti-conservative, an offense to the values and expectations of established Jewish and Roman society and religion alike. Those who authentically live in the spirit of Christ are those whom the society today deems as outside of it, as perverse, transgressive, gnostic, queer... Christ would joyously piss on a depiction of Crucifixion in a "Christian" church.

Very interesting take on the gospels but the idea that Jesus was a rebel just to be a rebel and stick it to values or expectations of society, as well as an attempt to categorise Jesus from some modern perspective, exposes a clear lack of understanding.
Dragon Master 12 dez. 2024 às 20:37 
No one wants conservative or christian themed games (unless they are awesome) to be pushed. People want good games.

It just so happens that just putting in a beautiful woman is seen as far right nowadays compared to just normal and not political at all, which it is.

EDIT: By that I mean, beautiful women is not political.
Última alteração por Dragon Master; 12 dez. 2024 às 20:38
Moonlight Knight 12 dez. 2024 às 21:03 
Originalmente postado por Dragon Master:
No one wants conservative or christian themed games (unless they are awesome) to be pushed. People want good games.

It just so happens that just putting in a beautiful woman is seen as far right nowadays compared to just normal and not political at all, which it is.

EDIT: By that I mean, beautiful women is not political.
No-one in any of the circles I ran in was offended by Bayonetta, and she not only wears a slinky catsuit in every incarnation, but she leans into both BDSM torture and is very actively sexual and sexualized. In fact many of them (and by "them" I mean leftist gamers) were actively fans of Bayonetta.

However, Quiet and Eve rolled off their backs.

Can you guess what the difference is?
Última alteração por Moonlight Knight; 12 dez. 2024 às 21:10
Butcher 12 dez. 2024 às 21:17 
Originalmente postado por Moonlight Knight:
Originalmente postado por Dragon Master:
No one wants conservative or christian themed games (unless they are awesome) to be pushed. People want good games.

It just so happens that just putting in a beautiful woman is seen as far right nowadays compared to just normal and not political at all, which it is.

EDIT: By that I mean, beautiful women is not political.
No-one in any of the circles I ran in was offended by Bayonetta, and she not only wears a slinky catsuit in every incarnation, but she leans into both BDSM torture and is very actively sexual and sexualized.

However, Quiet and Eve rolled off their backs.

Can you guess what the difference is?
Oh, you can easily find offended by Bayonetta on Resetera
https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-women-criticise-sexualised-character-designs-ot2-i-have-no-pants-and-i-must-scream-read-op.65064

"It's just a poor excuse when man comes up with "Bayonetta or Ivy is a well made empowering character", these character has no agency on themselves on how they look or how the camera gives the perspective accentuating their butt and chests, at what point making a "sexy empowering character" is enough? It's basically the discussion we had a while ago on Bayonetta's schtick, she's a character that's supposed to be the sexy witch, but she has no agency over herself and the way the camera moves around her to give those eye-candies view of her crotch and ass. Characters with the whole "sexy" personality could work if they were well made and the game didn't take advantage of camera movements and clothes to explicit scream in your ear "HER WHOLE PERSONALITY IS BEING SEXY/FLIRTATIOUS" when you can make this point purely by dialogue."


"You can find something empowering, I certsimly ain't gonna stop that, but that doesn't change the authorial intent.

There's a clear desire from a lot of women gamers in general for sexualised powerful women. That doesn't mean that Ivy, Bayonetta or Zero Suit Samus designed for that though, they were designed to be (pardon my vulgarity here) wanked over.

Anything positive we can take from them, while very real positives make no no mistake, are like scraps basically.

I'm not a woman but I'm bi, and I do enjoy the "depraved bisexual" trope as a power fantasy, even though it's unrepresentative of me and an unhealthy representation of bisexuals in general."
Moonlight Knight 12 dez. 2024 às 21:25 
Originalmente postado por Butcher:
Originalmente postado por Moonlight Knight:
No-one in any of the circles I ran in was offended by Bayonetta, and she not only wears a slinky catsuit in every incarnation, but she leans into both BDSM torture and is very actively sexual and sexualized.

However, Quiet and Eve rolled off their backs.

Can you guess what the difference is?
Oh, you can easily find offended by Bayonetta on Resetera
Well that's sad, but also A) it's ResetEra, and B) they're wrong.

Now, can you spot the difference between Bayonetta and characters like Quiet or Eve?

I'll give you a hint: One of the people you quoted was wrong about the thing that sets them apart, specifically about the idea that Bayonetta doesn't have it.
Última alteração por Moonlight Knight; 12 dez. 2024 às 21:26
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Postado a: 8 dez. 2024 às 3:05
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