I think I finally see the problem with Obsidian games: No villains in any of their games.

[woops]

This post might have some spoilers because we are discussing their games' stories.

I *literally* don't even remember who the villain in The Outer Worlds was, I think literally nobody? We just run around and things are tough and you are told to do something with your new ship that you were given and then it kinda develops a few mild storylines from there.
Then in Poe2 it was similar: So Eothas runs through some islands and causes a bit of destruction (mostly property damage because Eothas doesnt even try to hurt anyone directly) and this is somehow the big issue and problem and somehow my problem? That's so thin that I'm surprised that one of the writers didn't instinctually want to add more meat to this.

Now the same problem seems to happen again in Avowed: No villain. Sure there is a weird plague going on but it seems like Obsidian is just going to put you into this world and you'll just start solving problems for everyone around you I guess. That's not a story, that's just.. existence as an RPG gamer. Shouldn't you put an actual story arc into a game? Like a villain that is really evil for his own messed up reasons and he makes moves throughout the story that you try to stop? This is classical story writing: exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution
I genuinely don't even remember how The Outer Worlds ended, I think I was in a prison and we saved somebody.. yeah now I'm starting to remember, we saved the professor but that was just a situation he got himself into during the game, it's a non issue for me and how is that even considered a story? Like yeah, sure professor I'll help you I guess. But I still don't know why I care so much about this dude.

I really think that Avowed is going to fall into the same trap again: Absolutely no direction in an otherwise decent fantasy universe with decent quests and substories. I still remember thinking in Poe2 "how is all this my problem, I am seriously going to run after a God called Eothas to do.. what ? the plan is to *TALK* to the guy that destroys islands by walking through them?! And this is literally how the story ends, you talk to the guy and he stops doing it...?

[Morgrum]

Originally posted by woops:

This post might have some spoilers because we are discussing their games' stories.

I *literally* don't even remember who the villain in The Outer Worlds was, I think literally nobody? We just run around and things are tough and you are told to do something with your new ship that you were given and then it kinda develops a few mild storylines from there.
Then in Poe2 it was similar: So Eothas runs through some islands and causes a bit of destruction (mostly property damage because Eothas doesnt even try to hurt anyone directly) and this is somehow the big issue and problem and somehow my problem? That's so thin that I'm surprised that one of the writers didn't instinctually want to add more meat to this.

Now the same problem seems to happen again in Avowed: No villain. Sure there is a weird plague going on but it seems like Obsidian is just going to put you into this world and you'll just start solving problems for everyone around you I guess. That's not a story, that's just.. existence as an RPG gamer. Shouldn't you put an actual story arc into a game? Like a villain that is really evil for his own messed up reasons and he makes moves throughout the story that you try to stop? This is classical story writing: exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution
I genuinely don't even remember how The Outer Worlds ended, I think I was in a prison and we saved somebody.. yeah now I'm starting to remember, we saved the professor but that was just a situation he got himself into during the game, it's a non issue for me and how is that even considered a story? Like yeah, sure professor I'll help you I guess. But I still don't know why I care so much about this dude.

I really think that Avowed is going to fall into the same trap again: Absolutely no direction in an otherwise decent fantasy universe with decent quests and substories. I still remember thinking in Poe2 "how is all this my problem, I am seriously going to run after a God called Eothas to do.. what ? the plan is to *TALK* to the guy that destroys islands by walking through them?! And this is literally how the story ends, you talk to the guy and he stops doing it...?

The Villain in TOW were the oppressive Mega Corporations and the President that kept everyone in line for them.

[DrZann]

I prefer to be the villain.

[Bob3]

is it really a problem or is a problem for you? I like games that have less typical big bads. What if I'm evil? Why would i care about fighting against someone else who evil.

[woops]

Originally posted by Morgrum:

The Villain in TOW were the oppressive Mega Corporations and the President that kept everyone in line for them.

except you can side with them and they aren't really evil. Sure they have some dumb ideas to save the colonies through extreme starvation and resource saving but they still ultimately want to save them. That's not exactly a situation where I need to self insert as a hero with my different political opinion on economics and stop them. How am I supposed to really know that it's better if we do things differently? Maybe that's part of the unique Obsidian problem: They want you to be able to side with the "bad" guys which is very cool but they can't seem to create an exciting story where you hunt the bad guys when you can still side with them at every moment.

[AinslieSentry]

According to the game director Carrie Patel, you can betray your homeland(Aedyrian Empire) and side with antagonist
So maybe you can become the villain this time

[DrZann]

Originally posted by AinslieSentry:

According to the game director Carrie Patel, you can betray your homeland(Aedyrian Empire) and side with antagonist
So maybe you can become the villain this time

I saw that, and I am suitably excited.

[woops]

Originally posted by AinslieSentry:

According to the game director Carrie Patel, you can betray your homeland(Aedyrian Empire) and side with antagonist
So maybe you can become the villain this time

You could be a villain in The Outer Worlds too by siding with the brain eating slugs (for whatever crazy reason). But the point is that if you allow such story developments then who is left to fight? What's your cause as the protagonist? You just heckin' love killing innocent people? Of which you can't really do much of in the entire game and you still end up helping everyone in every side quest?

[Kazuma Kiryu]

The director said the skeleton in the box art is the main villain

[archonsod]

Why is it a problem? A whole slew of Star Trek episodes have no villain either, didn't do them any harm. You don't need a villain, or even an antagonist, to tell a good story. Nor will the introduction of one magically make a poor story better (for the most part; at best you get the 'the movie sucked but the bad guy was cool' effect).

[Mechaballe]

Originally posted by woops:

This post might have some spoilers because we are discussing their games' stories.

I *literally* don't even remember who the villain in The Outer Worlds was, I think literally nobody? We just run around and things are tough and you are told to do something with your new ship that you were given and then it kinda develops a few mild storylines from there.
Then in Poe2 it was similar: So Eothas runs through some islands and causes a bit of destruction (mostly property damage because Eothas doesnt even try to hurt anyone directly) and this is somehow the big issue and problem and somehow my problem? That's so thin that I'm surprised that one of the writers didn't instinctually want to add more meat to this.

Now the same problem seems to happen again in Avowed: No villain. Sure there is a weird plague going on but it seems like Obsidian is just going to put you into this world and you'll just start solving problems for everyone around you I guess. That's not a story, that's just.. existence as an RPG gamer. Shouldn't you put an actual story arc into a game? Like a villain that is really evil for his own messed up reasons and he makes moves throughout the story that you try to stop? This is classical story writing: exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution
I genuinely don't even remember how The Outer Worlds ended, I think I was in a prison and we saved somebody.. yeah now I'm starting to remember, we saved the professor but that was just a situation he got himself into during the game, it's a non issue for me and how is that even considered a story? Like yeah, sure professor I'll help you I guess. But I still don't know why I care so much about this dude.

I really think that Avowed is going to fall into the same trap again: Absolutely no direction in an otherwise decent fantasy universe with decent quests and substories. I still remember thinking in Poe2 "how is all this my problem, I am seriously going to run after a God called Eothas to do.. what ? the plan is to *TALK* to the guy that destroys islands by walking through them?! And this is literally how the story ends, you talk to the guy and he stops doing it...?

Property damage is a crime! >:0

[Charola]

Originally posted by woops:

This post might have some spoilers because we are discussing their games' stories.

I *literally* don't even remember who the villain in The Outer Worlds was, I think literally nobody? We just run around and things are tough and you are told to do something with your new ship that you were given and then it kinda develops a few mild storylines from there.
Then in Poe2 it was similar: So Eothas runs through some islands and causes a bit of destruction (mostly property damage because Eothas doesnt even try to hurt anyone directly) and this is somehow the big issue and problem and somehow my problem? That's so thin that I'm surprised that one of the writers didn't instinctually want to add more meat to this.

Now the same problem seems to happen again in Avowed: No villain. Sure there is a weird plague going on but it seems like Obsidian is just going to put you into this world and you'll just start solving problems for everyone around you I guess. That's not a story, that's just.. existence as an RPG gamer. Shouldn't you put an actual story arc into a game? Like a villain that is really evil for his own messed up reasons and he makes moves throughout the story that you try to stop? This is classical story writing: exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution
I genuinely don't even remember how The Outer Worlds ended, I think I was in a prison and we saved somebody.. yeah now I'm starting to remember, we saved the professor but that was just a situation he got himself into during the game, it's a non issue for me and how is that even considered a story? Like yeah, sure professor I'll help you I guess. But I still don't know why I care so much about this dude.

I really think that Avowed is going to fall into the same trap again: Absolutely no direction in an otherwise decent fantasy universe with decent quests and substories. I still remember thinking in Poe2 "how is all this my problem, I am seriously going to run after a God called Eothas to do.. what ? the plan is to *TALK* to the guy that destroys islands by walking through them?! And this is literally how the story ends, you talk to the guy and he stops doing it...?

Eothas kills most of his fortress, including you, which is why you are involved. He also kills thousands of people who cross his path, not that he doesn't have the intention, but I also agree with you that we have no way of stopping him other than talking to him.

From what we saw in the Avowed trailer, Inquisitor Lodwyn will be present. I believe he is the antagonist or one of them, and the Director has already said that we could side with the antagonists.

[puppet74]

that isn't a problem though. infact you could say its a good thing. jsut like the real world there is no bond villiain who you look to for everything bad in the world.

What comes to mind with obsidian stories is a middle ground, grey area where there is only people with different opinions.

[woops]

Originally posted by puppet74:

that isn't a problem though. infact you could say its a good thing. jsut like the real world there is no bond villiain who you look to for everything bad in the world.

What comes to mind with obsidian stories is a middle ground, grey area where there is only people with different opinions.

it is clearly a problem if I couldnt even remember how Outer Worlds ended because of how bland it seemed. I certainly never forgot in 20 years how BG2 ended.

[DrZann]

Originally posted by archonsod:

Why is it a problem? A whole slew of Star Trek episodes have no villain either, didn't do them any harm. You don't need a villain, or even an antagonist, to tell a good story. Nor will the introduction of one magically make a poor story better (for the most part; at best you get the 'the movie sucked but the bad guy was cool' effect).

Good point.

[I'm cucked]

Maybe you should play Tyranny.