Combat sucks in this game, hear me out

[COWABUNGA]

I know some people say the combat is actually great, but those are wrong. Just because a game has a dodge mechanic does not mean the combat is fun or interesting.
For example, you can get a simple chain lightning spell, that once upgraded can bounce to more enemies. It does fairly low damage, but its cheap and its an AOE that applies shock. That's all good. The problem is, its not fun or interesting in the least, and literally every shock spell in the game is in essence a variation of this exact spell with a different coat of paint. Imagine instead if this spell could lift an enemy up, and forcibly push them away, causing damage on impact, or allowing you to knock them off cliffs. Think back to the fun physics and intractability of the Force Unleashed games, or that one Might & Magic RPG. Instead of having spells with fun interactions, we instead get colors that make enemy health bar go down.
But hey, you can hecking dodgerino!!!! WOW!
Even f*cking Skyrim had abilities that can ragdoll your enemy. You're telling me Obsidian in their decades of experience didn't think "Hey.. Why don't we just give the player FUN abilities, instead of just making the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cookie cutter spells in every generic RPG?"
Why not have the ranger root spell spread out and grow, grabbing onto units as it expands. Instead its quite literally a 3d model of roots with a glowing green effect that you spawn in on the terrain, and if an enemy touches it they just stop being able to walk. Its so hideously boring and uninspired I want to drop the game every time I realise how much better spells could be. Why are there no movement abilities? Why not let us double-jump? Air dash? Fly?? ANYTHING? Its literally just spamming the spacebar whenever an enemy has a glowing symbol above their head. Its so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mediocre and dull that I feel like I'm playing a game made by 10 dudes on a tight budget, not one of the most well known RPG developers of all time.
But yeah, cool you can dodge like in other "action" games or whatever. Wow.

[Inflammatory]

certain enemy types are also resistant to certain damage types, which i think also makes them immune to the associated status effect

[Spoonardo]

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

I know some people say the combat is actually great, but those are wrong. Just because a game has a dodge mechanic does not mean the combat is fun or interesting.
For example, you can get a simple chain lightning spell, that once upgraded can bounce to more enemies. It does fairly low damage, but its cheap and its an AOE that applies shock. That's all good. The problem is, its not fun or interesting in the least, and literally every shock spell in the game is in essence a variation of this exact spell with a different coat of paint. Imagine instead if this spell could lift an enemy up, and forcibly push them away, causing damage on impact, or allowing you to knock them off cliffs. Think back to the fun physics and intractability of the Force Unleashed games, or that one Might & Magic RPG. Instead of having spells with fun interactions, we instead get colors that make enemy health bar go down.
But hey, you can hecking dodgerino!!!! WOW!
Even f*cking Skyrim had abilities that can ragdoll your enemy. You're telling me Obsidian in their decades of experience didn't think "Hey.. Why don't we just give the player FUN abilities, instead of just making the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cookie cutter spells in every generic RPG?"
Why not have the ranger root spell spread out and grow, grabbing onto units as it expands. Instead its quite literally a 3d model of roots with a glowing green effect that you spawn in on the terrain, and if an enemy touches it they just stop being able to walk. Its so hideously boring and uninspired I want to drop the game every time I realise how much better spells could be. Why are there no movement abilities? Why not let us double-jump? Air dash? Fly?? ANYTHING? Its literally just spamming the spacebar whenever an enemy has a glowing symbol above their head. Its so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mediocre and dull that I feel like I'm playing a game made by 10 dudes on a tight budget, not one of the most well known RPG developers of all time.
But yeah, cool you can dodge like in other "action" games or whatever. Wow.

Hear me out.... you don't even own the game...

[👁]

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

I know some people say the combat is actually great, but those are wrong. Just because a game has a dodge mechanic does not mean the combat is fun or interesting.

I mean you can also block and parry and use really cool spells.

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

For example, you can get a simple chain lightning spell, that once upgraded can bounce to more enemies. It does fairly low damage, but its cheap and its an AOE that applies shock. That's all good. The problem is, its not fun or interesting in the least, and literally every shock spell in the game is in essence a variation of this exact spell with a different coat of paint.

I mean one's a direct line attack, one's a bouncy ball, one summons a thunder storm, hardly the same spell.

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

Imagine instead if this spell could lift an enemy up, and forcibly push them away, causing damage on impact, or allowing you to knock them off cliffs.

You realize there's a spell like that at Tier 5 right?

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

Think back to the fun physics and intractability of the Force Unleashed games

IDK I always found it kind of underwhelming.

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

or that one Might & Magic RPG

Oh yeah Dark Messiah was a lot of fun, this game shares a lot of DNA with it.

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

Instead of having spells with fun interactions, we instead get colors that make enemy health bar go down.

Bro we get ice storms that freeze enemies solid, fireballs that deal massive area damage, bouncy balls of lightning, turret orbs that smash into the ground and explode after shooting everyone, tome claps that knock everything poisonous life stealing beams, magic missiles, the magic in this game is great and the variety you can get from different grimoires is awesome.

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

But hey, you can hecking dodgerino!!!! WOW!

I really need to work on dodging my first instinct is to smash a magic shield button then tank all the damage that comes my way while I cast AoE spells, I waste so many potions that way. Too bad I can't use a shield in one hand and a grimoire in the other... Wait can I? Imma test that next time I play, I don't think I can tho.

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

Even f*cking Skyrim had abilities that can ragdoll your enemy.

Yeah but when you upgraded your destruction perks everything you zapped with lightning would vaporize into an ash pile anyway, also as the enemies leveled up your spell power didn't and magic became useless around level 30.

[👁]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

Your opinion will change once you get to play the game. Weapons feel light and floaty, even the heavy weapons don't feel heavy as you're mostly spam dodging and flipflopping around the place waiting for your turn to attack. Spells are incredibly bright, and you only have access to around 4 at once, anymore would drain your "mana" too fast, and having more is pointless anyway as you want to use the ones you have skill points in. Not only that, but many of the spells are in essence the same thing but recoloured. Even status effects seem to do the exact same thing, fire, lighting, and poison are literally just DoTs, Ice I think slows the enemy and you might be able to stun them with it. Its literally a choice of "Do your want your spells to be red, green, or blue?"

That's the thing. It doesn't, watching some gameplays weapons clearly seems to have some weight to them and enemies react accordingly and stagger as it seems they should.

Plus, the spells do seem to to have different effects. Like ice, really freezing enemies. But, we will see. Again, I don't think I'll get it now because the story seems cookie cutter. But in a sale it might be worth it.

I'm over 10 hours in and so far I've been pulled in different directions by different factions and have made many decisions that had lasting concequences.

Even during the tutorial it asks you to decide the fate of a prisoner and what you choose will have an impact later, during side quests I've been asked to negotiate with smugglers and they were quite reasonable and got talked down to the original price and then I decided to kill them all anyway. I snuck through a camp to get some luminous adra because I wasn't sure I could fight everyone, sneaking past all the guards I was surprised to be offered a deal by one of the smugglers, I could have gotten the adra without fighting but after hearing his desperate circumstances I decided to kill them all instead. I killed this crazy godtouched in a ruin before I even knew he was an animancer, just that would have sealed his fate, but I think I could have worked out some kind of deal or done some kind of quest for him concerning the machine he was working on.

On the main quest a rebel shot at me so I tracked him down and he tried to talk to me thinking maybe he could recruit me to his cause, so I decided to kill him on the spot without even hearing him out.

The captain of the Paradisian Expedition got in an argument with the head of the order so I sided with the order, after all I'm going to purge the island for the empire. The mysterious voice in my head really doesn't like that idea and seems to have a lot of reactivity to everything I say like I'm shaping it's consciousness of the world.

After leaving Paradis I double crossed a lot of Animancers, Animancy is illegal in the empire after all.

[Kain]

Originally posted by 👁:

Originally posted by Kain:

That's the thing. It doesn't, watching some gameplays weapons clearly seems to have some weight to them and enemies react accordingly and stagger as it seems they should.

Plus, the spells do seem to to have different effects. Like ice, really freezing enemies. But, we will see. Again, I don't think I'll get it now because the story seems cookie cutter. But in a sale it might be worth it.

I'm over 10 hours in and so far I've been pulled in different directions by different factions and have made many decisions that had lasting concequences.

Even during the tutorial it asks you to decide the fate of a prisoner and what you choose will have an impact later, during side quests I've been asked to negotiate with smugglers and they were quite reasonable and got talked down to the original price and then I decided to kill them all anyway. I snuck through a camp to get some luminous adra because I wasn't sure I could fight everyone, sneaking past all the guards I was surprised to be offered a deal by one of the smugglers, I could have gotten the adra without fighting but after hearing his desperate circumstances I decided to kill them all instead. I killed this crazy godtouched in a ruin before I even knew he was an animancer, just that would have sealed his fate tho.

On the main quest a rebel shot at me so I tracked him down and he tried to talk to me thinking maybe he could recruit me to his cause, so I decided to kill him on the spot without even hearing him out.

The captain of the Paradisian Expedition got in an argument with the head of the order so I sided with the order, after all I'm going to purge the island for the empire. The mysterious voice in my head really doesn't like that idea and seems to have a lot of reactivity to everything I say like I'm shaping it's consciousness of the world.

After leaving Paradis I double crossed a lot of Animancers, Animancy is illegal in the empire after all.

That's good to know. I'm still on the fence and with my backlog I can wait. But overall, my impressions are positive.

[Eightbarrel]

Agree. Anyone who says the combat is great has never played a game with great combat

[Kain]

Originally posted by Eightbarrel:

Agree. Anyone who says the combat is great has never played a game with great combat

Incorrect.

I have played Darktide, Vermintide 2, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

Your argument is invalid.

[COWABUNGA]

Originally posted by 👁:

Originally posted by Kain:

That's the thing. It doesn't, watching some gameplays weapons clearly seems to have some weight to them and enemies react accordingly and stagger as it seems they should.

Plus, the spells do seem to to have different effects. Like ice, really freezing enemies. But, we will see. Again, I don't think I'll get it now because the story seems cookie cutter. But in a sale it might be worth it.

I'm over 10 hours in and so far I've been pulled in different directions by different factions and have made many decisions that had lasting concequences.

Even during the tutorial it asks you to decide the fate of a prisoner and what you choose will have an impact later, during side quests I've been asked to negotiate with smugglers and they were quite reasonable and got talked down to the original price and then I decided to kill them all anyway. I snuck through a camp to get some luminous adra because I wasn't sure I could fight everyone, sneaking past all the guards I was surprised to be offered a deal by one of the smugglers, I could have gotten the adra without fighting but after hearing his desperate circumstances I decided to kill them all instead. I killed this crazy godtouched in a ruin before I even knew he was an animancer, just that would have sealed his fate, but I think I could have worked out some kind of deal or done some kind of quest for him concerning the machine he was working on.

On the main quest a rebel shot at me so I tracked him down and he tried to talk to me thinking maybe he could recruit me to his cause, so I decided to kill him on the spot without even hearing him out.

The captain of the Paradisian Expedition got in an argument with the head of the order so I sided with the order, after all I'm going to purge the island for the empire. The mysterious voice in my head really doesn't like that idea and seems to have a lot of reactivity to everything I say like I'm shaping it's consciousness of the world.

After leaving Paradis I double crossed a lot of Animancers, Animancy is illegal in the empire after all.

Either you've never played another RPG in your life, or you're being disingenuous. When you first meet the ambassador, he refuses to talk to you until you kill the bear in the next room, after doing so during your conversation with him, keeping in mind you are a representative of the Emperor from whom this ambassador also represents, if you pass the strength requirement you can extort the ambassador, who you've literally just met, by threatening to tell everyone that he killed an important diplomatic NPC, and after doing so he will literally just give you 100 gold (which is nothing) and the conversation continues as if you didn't just extort the guy two seconds ago. You end up talking to him after this to progress the plot and at no point does he treat you any different whether or not you threatened to lie and get him possibly executed for murder. In fact, you can continue to abuse your strength stat to get more money out of him, and none of the reasons as to why mean anything, he just continues to talk to you all the same. Its totally lifeless.
After the failed assassination on your life you're told by a doctor that you should probably talk to some watcher up in the hills somewhere, as your soul may be hurt by what you experienced or something, and at no point are you able to refuse to do this, despite being told by every-other person that the watcher is probably a fraud. So you return to the ambassador to properly introduce yourself and show him your letter or authority, after which it is made clear you are given executive powers to deal with the Dreamscourge, but for some insane ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason the ambassador will supercede your rank and force you to go to the watcher to get your soul checked, with no option at all to refuse. You are then railroaded into talking to the hag in her shed in the wilderness, she gives you the all clear, and literally nothing happens, cool. At no point are you given any choice in anything that happens during this segment, and none of the NPCs react to anything you do. You can run around looting storefronts, picking locks, doing whatever the ♥♥♥♥ you want and nobody even reacts.
During the quest where you confront your assassin, who turns out to be a rebel who is against your empire (who you represent) taking control of the area, after killing most of them I got to the assassin and chose the most lawful option. I was chastised for this by my companions because apparently facing punishment for your crimes is a bad or something? Like oh no.. after a trial and verdict by Jury they might torture them!! And they'll be executed!! Okay, and? The guy is literally a murderer who admitted that he wanted to kill you because he saw you in his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dream, literally, what the ♥♥♥♥? This guy is clearly insane. Whatever, this is relevant because later on you can stumble into another rebel hideout and talk to the leadership there, and despite being enemies of the Empire (that you represent) you have NO choice to attack them, nor do you even get the choice to tell them to disperse or anything, you literally just say "if you cause any trouble, I'll be back!" this is AFTER they admitted to "preying" on the locals, and murdering some, you can't do anything about this, and you are just forced to leave?? Why?? It doesn't make any sense. I realised later on that they're only there to act an opposite faction to the inquisitor, and that you can enter another underground hideout belonging to her, and you sorta side between one of the factions? In my case, I had killed the inquisitors goons because they refused me (the emperors right-hand-man) from entering the little base, and they attacked me, but by doing this the game essentially passively sided me with the rebels or some ♥♥♥♥ I guess.
The game paints you as this very important person, a literal demi-god with special powers, and the representative of the Emperor to settle a very important issue, but at no point during any of conversations with NPCs do they treat you with any respect or reverence. You quite literally get treated like a nuisance, despite having supreme authority from THE Emperor to handle issues related to the dreamscourge, you are kept on a leash at every possible moment. And don't try to tell me you actually don't have any authority, because why would the Emperor even send you to this place with a letter detailing your authority if you aren't supposed to hold any authority? Even without the letter, as the emperor's hand you would expect at least the bureaucrats to respect you.
Another example is when I went to Kai's dead friend's house to pickup some trinket, upon getting there you find the item and Kai has a bit of a cry because he realised that his friend must've had feelings for him. The entire time I was just rolling my eyes because of course hes gay, but no matter I'll just choose whatever option expresses my disinterest in this revelation, after all my character so far has been a bit of a hardass with a justice boner. But of course, no matter how hard I tried, I wasn't given any options that weren't literally "Oh my god Kai, you poor thing! He loved you don't you know? How awful! I feel really bad for you now!" What the ♥♥♥♥? Why can't I just not care, or at least let me just say "thats a real shame" and move on. Why are you forcing my character to act so overly empathetic? I've only known this dude for a day or two, and most of that was us killing the ♥♥♥♥ out of people. The whole scene REEKED of virtue signalling, and you are railroaded into agreeing that the whole thing is very sad or whatever. Kill me. I'm not roleplaying as my character, I'm roleplaying as whatever the devs think I should be. Why even give me dialogue options at all honestly.

[COWABUNGA]

Originally posted by Spoonardo:

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

I know some people say the combat is actually great, but those are wrong. Just because a game has a dodge mechanic does not mean the combat is fun or interesting.
For example, you can get a simple chain lightning spell, that once upgraded can bounce to more enemies. It does fairly low damage, but its cheap and its an AOE that applies shock. That's all good. The problem is, its not fun or interesting in the least, and literally every shock spell in the game is in essence a variation of this exact spell with a different coat of paint. Imagine instead if this spell could lift an enemy up, and forcibly push them away, causing damage on impact, or allowing you to knock them off cliffs. Think back to the fun physics and intractability of the Force Unleashed games, or that one Might & Magic RPG. Instead of having spells with fun interactions, we instead get colors that make enemy health bar go down.
But hey, you can hecking dodgerino!!!! WOW!
Even f*cking Skyrim had abilities that can ragdoll your enemy. You're telling me Obsidian in their decades of experience didn't think "Hey.. Why don't we just give the player FUN abilities, instead of just making the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cookie cutter spells in every generic RPG?"
Why not have the ranger root spell spread out and grow, grabbing onto units as it expands. Instead its quite literally a 3d model of roots with a glowing green effect that you spawn in on the terrain, and if an enemy touches it they just stop being able to walk. Its so hideously boring and uninspired I want to drop the game every time I realise how much better spells could be. Why are there no movement abilities? Why not let us double-jump? Air dash? Fly?? ANYTHING? Its literally just spamming the spacebar whenever an enemy has a glowing symbol above their head. Its so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mediocre and dull that I feel like I'm playing a game made by 10 dudes on a tight budget, not one of the most well known RPG developers of all time.
But yeah, cool you can dodge like in other "action" games or whatever. Wow.

Hear me out.... you don't even own the game...

You don't need to have the game on steam to play it, chud.

[MartyrSaint]

Originally posted by COWABUNGA:

Originally posted by OPPSuperCow:

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

What is good about the combat in this game?

It's punchy and responsive. I appreciate that this game isn't just a carbon copy of skyrim or, god forbid, a souls game.

[MartyrSaint]

Woah, OP really went from "Man combat kind of sucks" to complaining about brown people and homosexuality. 1 to 100 real fast. Something about tigers and their stripes, I guess.

[COWABUNGA]

Originally posted by 👁:

I mean you can also block and parry and use really cool spells.

Kek, imagine if you couldn't block in a game like this. My point is that dodge mechanics in games are over-valued to the point that if any game includes dodging it automatically gets treated like it has good combat.

Originally posted by 👁:

I mean one's a direct line attack, one's a bouncy ball, one summons a thunder storm, hardly the same spell.

Okay, but what do these spells actually do? They deal damage that affects multiple enemies at the same time, and they stack the lightning debuff. Just because one is an orb, one is a line, and one is area effect doesn't mean they do anything different. The shocking grasp spell and the bouncing orb spell are almost identical except in damage values. Both spells achieve the exact same result, except one is weaker because its a lower level spell. That's it.

Originally posted by 👁:

You realize there's a spell like that at Tier 5 right?

I'm pretty sure that's not true, but either-way the point I was making was that the spells at your disposal are too similar and they don't do anything FUN. Let me Emperor Palpatine a fool, lift him up, zap him with lightning, and throw him off a cliff. Let me turn guy to stone, let me launch myself into the air and slam down like a meteor, let me heat an enemy's weapon in their hand making them drop it, let me create a field of ice and watch enemies slip and fall on their asses, let me execute an enemy by turning them into a living bomb and have them explode, let me fire rocks at people, and let me charge it up so I roll a big ass boulder and disrupt a group of enemies. Do you understand what I'm getting at? Outside of maybe 3 spells, the rest of the spells in the game all do some variation of "AOE damage, accumulate element debuff." No interactions, no way to manipulate the enemy or the environment, nothing. Its all very uninspired.

Originally posted by 👁:

Oh yeah Dark Messiah was a lot of fun, this game shares a lot of DNA with it.

Read my above comment. I honestly think you're trolling when you say this. The charm of Dark Messiah was that the combat allowed you to fight enemies in creative and interactive ways. This game does not let you do that in the least. You can shrink enemies in dark messiah and stomp on them, you can bait enemies into following you near a drop, create an ice puddle and watch as they all slip and fall off the edge, you can set an explosive rune in a doorway to a room filled with enemies, kill some with a bow, and any that make it to you are dealt with thanks to your preparations. The versatility in the spells in Dark Messiah completely outclass the ones in this game, and funnily enough this game has more spells than Dark Messiah does.. Is that maybe because the spells in Avowed are just damage ticks coated different?

[COWABUNGA]

Originally posted by MartyrSaint:

Woah, OP really went from "Man combat kind of sucks" to complaining about brown people and homosexuality. 1 to 100 real fast. Something about tigers and their stripes, I guess.

If you actually read the thread instead of trying to derail it you'll see that I'm addressing all of the issues with the game, including its blatant wokeisms.

[Primal Feed]

It follows Pillars of Eternity, not Skyrim..... if I want to play Skyrim then I would install it and play Skyrim. GO F_)(ING PLAY SKYRIM!!!!

It branches out into an entire new experience and approach from the Pillars of Eternity World, NOT SKYRIM.

In comparison, Avowed does a much better job with the combat than Skyrim, Skyrim that combat system is utter TRASH.

Avowed bring elements from the previous games POE/POE II that are very much reminiscent but like many other games with their own series it is not 100% carried over. Even Deadfire brought in a new experience and new approach and I personally found it refreshing. We will always have that player base that is so hardheartedly with a hard on for "It's gotta stick to the Classics" well this isn't for them.

[COWABUNGA]

Originally posted by Primal Feed:

It follows Pillars of Eternity, not Skyrim..... if I want to play Skyrim then I would install it and play Skyrim. GO F_)(ING PLAY SKYRIM!!!!

It branches out into an entire new experience and approach from the Pillars of Eternity World, NOT SKYRIM.

In comparison, Avowed does a much better job with the combat than Skyrim, Skyrim that combat system is utter TRASH.

Avowed bring elements from the previous games POE/POE II that are very much reminiscent but like many other games with their own series it is not 100% carried over. Even Deadfire brought in a new experience and new approach and I personally found it refreshing. We will always have that player base that is so hardheartedly with a hard on for "It's gotta stick to the Classics" well this isn't for them.

Somehow Skyrim's combat is better than Avoweds. Like I said, having a dodging mechanic does not make combat good. Skyrim has better spells, better environmental interactions, deeper stealth mechanics, etc.