Ars Technica review, what to make of it?

[EntityofDesire]

I just read the arstechnica review of the game and they make a big point about the story more or less making you out to be the bad guy because your part of the "colonizers" and while I get the story mechanic of this (ie the outside or oppressing force) with all the political crap going on and some liberal groups/writers are trying to push self shame, guilt on people for existing because (ie colonial past) I'm wondering if this the intent too of this story or is it just a story mcguffin? (ie narrative tool to drive the story)

Can anybody tell me where this story falls? I'm interested in the game, i love pillars 1 and 2, but if the story is going to lecture me because of human history of humans constantly colonizing or destroying each other (as some kind of new thing we need to feel bad about) than kinda saps the fun out of wanting to play it.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Ka-mai19:

Gamers are the strangest people on the planet. "I can't eat babies and be a murdering race supremacist that subjugates minorities in this game? Woke garbage not worth my time."

Feels like there's a bunch of closeted psychopaths who want to use video games as an outlet to air out their psychopathic behaviors, thoughts, and feelings.

Nobody is asking for either of those, but games of this kind usually do offer the possibility to be incredibly evil to a cartoonish level. That Avowed does not is an indictment to it, not an endorsement.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Chaser324:

So, OP says they love PoE2 and yet they're surprised this game would feature some commentary on colonization? Something isn't adding up there. Either you didn't actually play PoE2 or you completely misunderstood everything happening in it.

PoE2's commentary on Colonialism is that it is good, because the natives are incompetent at ruling their own realm, and they will be colonized in time anyway, so they may aswell choose by whom.

[katarack21]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Chaser324:

So, OP says they love PoE2 and yet they're surprised this game would feature some commentary on colonization? Something isn't adding up there. Either you didn't actually play PoE2 or you completely misunderstood everything happening in it.

PoE2's commentary on Colonialism is that it is good, because the natives are incompetent at ruling their own realm, and they will be colonized in time anyway, so they may aswell choose by whom.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ did you misunderstand that game.

[50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey]

Originally posted by katarack21:

Originally posted by Daniel_USA:

fake
Valians are Spanish/Portuguese and Aedyrians are English/French. All colonizers.

But yeah, you don't even have a choice to be like "colonizing, good", it's either bad or "complicated".

Yeah, 'cuz the general consensus among the vast majority of the population is that colonization is a horrific evil. It's like slavery, or genocide. Making a game where your character can go "Yes, that's awesome, let's do more of that" would be pretty severely ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up.

The point is illustrated by the great African American boxer Muhammad Ali. In the early 1970s Muhammad Ali fought for the heavyweight title against George Foreman. The fight was held in the African nation of Zaire; it was insensitively called the "rumble in the jungle." Ali won the fight, and upon returning to the United States, he was asked by a reporter, "Champ, what did you think of Africa?" Ali replied, "Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat!"

lmaooooo

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by katarack21:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

PoE2's commentary on Colonialism is that it is good, because the natives are incompetent at ruling their own realm, and they will be colonized in time anyway, so they may aswell choose by whom.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ did you misunderstand that game.

Nope, in fact, the only way to avoid the colonization, is to give the queen a lot of power, so she can oppress her people more.

[Ka-mai19]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Nobody is asking for either of those, but games of this kind usually do offer the possibility to be incredibly evil to a cartoonish level. That Avowed does not is an indictment to it, not an endorsement.

A cartoon evil character would behave exactly as I mentioned, lol.

In any case most people have barely experienced the story so I'm not sure we know the full extent of the kind of choices you can make with the accompanying consequences.

Lastly 90% of video games, RPGs included, trend towards your character being a heroic type who saves the day. The games that let you go full cartoonish evil and don't present consequences for it are rare. You may as well hate the entire industry for aligning with good-type characters over straight up evil ones.

[Chaser324]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by katarack21:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ did you misunderstand that game.

Nope, in fact, the only way to avoid the colonization, is to give the queen a lot of power, so she can oppress her people more.

So...you definitely misunderstood the point they were making. It was a bit more nuanced than what you seem to think. Just because the native society had its own problems did not make the colonizers actions justified.

And just to bring it back to Avowed, it's depicted in a very similar way. The people of the Living Lands have a lot of problems, but that doesn't mean that the Aedyrans are entirely justified in moving in and asserting their dominion over the people.

[DMaster2]

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

What? The game dares to present complex topics? Well I never, don´t they know we gamers only appreciate the most dumb down and simplistic lores? No nuances please, it makes me realise how fragile against a challenging plot I am!!

One of the most beloved game in history is Metal Gear Solid and if you think this crappy game is anywhere near the level of that game in terms of story, lore and literally everything else you should play more good games.

People are perfectly okay with complex topics, but they need to be tackled the proper way not the woke way.

[katarack21]

Originally posted by Chaser324:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Nope, in fact, the only way to avoid the colonization, is to give the queen a lot of power, so she can oppress her people more.

So...you definitely misunderstood the point they were making. It was a bit more nuanced than what you seem to think. Just because the native society had its own problems did not make the colonizers actions justified.

Exactly. The overall message of Deadfire is that the situation in the Deadfire is complicated and nuanced; the Ruatai Navy and the Vailian merchants aren't outright *evil*, but neither are they necessarily *good*. The Huana have their own problems, and aren't necessarily *good*, but nor are they outright *evil*.

The question presented by the game isn't whether these societies are good or evil, but what *outcome* do you personally believe is the most good or most evil. They don't tell you the answer; the answer you arrive at reflects your own decisions about what you want to happen in the Deadfire. In the best-case scenario, you make the choices according to what you believe is right or wrong, and ultimately what happens in the game reflects your personal sense of morality and ethics.

[Codian]

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

What? The game dares to present complex topics? Well I never, don´t they know we gamers only appreciate the most dumb down and simplistic lores? No nuances please, it makes me realise how fragile against a challenging plot I am!!

The problem is the game presenting complex issues in a biased and “in bad faith” way. Matt Hansen hates white people and is completely open about it. How many other employees are the same?

[JØey]

Facts hurt I know, some of you can't handle that humans are POS to other humans. You'll get over it though my dude. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you have no issue destroying hordes of aliens or monsters, driving your swords through the hearts of knights , taking over other people's lands in rts games then you will have no issue here

[katarack21]

Originally posted by Codian:

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

What? The game dares to present complex topics? Well I never, don´t they know we gamers only appreciate the most dumb down and simplistic lores? No nuances please, it makes me realise how fragile against a challenging plot I am!!

The problem is the game presenting complex issues in a biased and “in bad faith” way. Matt Hansen hates white people and is completely open about it. How many other employees are the same?

He absolutely does not. That tweet doesn't say *♥♥♥♥* about "hating white people". Y'all just flipped your ♥♥♥♥ because he offered to give portfolio and job advice priority to black people because they're severely underrepresented in the industry.

[XartaX]

Originally posted by katarack21:

Originally posted by Daniel_USA:

fake
Valians are Spanish/Portuguese and Aedyrians are English/French. All colonizers.

But yeah, you don't even have a choice to be like "colonizing, good", it's either bad or "complicated".

Yeah, 'cuz the general consensus among the vast majority of the population is that colonization is a horrific evil. It's like slavery, or genocide. Making a game where your character can go "Yes, that's awesome, let's do more of that" would be pretty severely ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up.

First of all, no, the majority does not view it as a horrific evil. That's just a tiny vocal minority. Heck, even in post colonial nations it's not uncommon for people, when polled, to go "yeah things were much better back when they were still in charge". Secondly, even if it was horrifically evil, games should let you be horrifically evil.

[juulstrup83]

Originally posted by katarack21:

Originally posted by juulstrup83:

Hmm so there is no slavery or genocide in BG3 according to you? Grymforge deep gnomes ring a bell?

Did you keep Halsin alive? He kills minority (goblin) children.

Slavery existing in a game is one thing. I never said anything about that. What I *VERY SPECIFICALLY* said would be unacceptable is the MC *advocating* for slavery. Same with genocide--it exists within many games, but I don't play games where the MC participates in or advocates for genocide.

It's really pretty simple.

Have you forgotten you can side with the slavers and abuse the slaves in Grymforge?

And let's not forget the refugees in Act 1.

[Space is the Place]

Originally posted by Codian:

The problem is the game presenting complex issues in a biased and “in bad faith” way. Matt Hansen hates white people and is completely open about it. How many other employees are the same?

I don´t know who Matt Hansen is or care. Some other user made a thread about this, I asked for proof, none was giving, so I´m gonna ignore that. And if he hates white american christo-fascist, then good on him, I hate them too. Don´t care how many employees share or don´t share this feeling, as the personal biases of a team of more than 2000 people has never weight on my enjoyment of their products.

In general, I´m able to enjoy things from people I would dislike, and dislike things from people I like. Cause I´m a normal human being, not a snowflake that requieres bias confirmation every step of their daily lives to not have their insecurities drive their path on life.