Tropico 5 VS Tropico 4 trough the eyes of a new player to the franchise.

[JOL1990]

After playing tropico 5 for ages, i just wanted to see what tropico 4 was all about. When i played it i thought it was quite good, but when i saw the vast amount of customization, the decorations, the extra buildings like the prison and the fire station i thought what where they thingking with tropico 5? I never played tropico before and i find myself enjoying tropico 4 a lot more then 5, you can zoom in a lot closer, you have wind power and more factorys, the speech mechanic.
The only redeeming factor i can think of is the multiplayer of tropico 5, although in my opinion it is flawed due to the lack of an option to save your game, i like to put time in my citys and a few hours dont cut it for me.

Coming from a new player to the franchise, i greatly prefer tropico 4 above tropico 5, Here i
s a little list of what i like and dislike about t5

LIKES
-The multiplayer function (exept the fact you cant save)
-The import export system keeps you busy when you have to wait to get money when the ships trade routes are terminated, trying to figure out a new profitable way
-The water effects are quite nicely done.
Thats about it, its an ok city builder..
-The time periods are quite interesting.

DISLIKES
-No customization, interactivity or personalisation with your president.
-You cant put together your speech like in tropico 4
-Buildings for tourism and gouvernment buildings were a lot better in tropico 4, you had ministers, spas, rollercoasters etc.Are they really expecting us to buy all of those in dlc?
-There is too much rebellion and coupes going on.
-Too difficult to make your people happy, it takes massive amounts of hospitals and police stations etc to make your people happy, so much that in a real world having so many places so close to each other would be a waste of money, are people in tropico too lazy to walk to a hospital thats 4 streets away from them?
-The mining system in 5 is not as good as the system in 4
-Overall it feels like they stripped loads of features of 4 to make 5.
-camera doesnt zoom far enough.
-I know there is a mod for this, but a population cap of 2000 is not enough. I found out why though, from the moment you have 2800 or more people your game starts lagging due to a mix of the videofeed on the left corner and the game doesnt seem to be able to simulate so many people smoothly, and my rig is not a bad one.
-You have a lot more control over your island in T4 then in T5.

There is so much they could have done with this, but they took loads out of the 4th game and they are going to sell it to us like its a mobile phone game. I have the feeling that the newer the games get the more awful the new installments are. This is not the first time that a new game in a franchise is messing up lately. for instance saints row 3 did thesame by taking stuff out and selling it for dlc. This practice really should stop, why do we keep putting up with these companys taking stuff out of the basic games and putting it in as paid dlc in the next one. If you pay a premium price for a game, you expect a premium game.

EDIT

I wrote this on the dlc one but i thought i would put it on here too since this topic is not too cluttered. this reaction is written around the fact that there is dlc hovering around already that should be in the game.
I would like to say this is just my opinion.

The main issue for me is that some of this stuff was already added in tropico 4 the base game. I dont mind them making extra buildings and sell them for dlc, but taking out stuff that was in the game before and then sell it on so you have more dlc is not that nice. The game itself feels like it is missing crucial bits, it has a certain emptyness, this doesnt mean it is a bad game, on the contrary, but it does prove that if you take stuff out of a game that people are expecting in a base game, it leaves an empty gap, If the developters after that say you have to pay to fill up that gap again after already paying for the game it might kick some people in the face.
If they need the dlc to pay their staff with with the stuff they took out and are going to sell us, how did they survive in tropico 4?


I found this exact same problem with saints row 3 where they took the fun stuff out of the second game and added some of it via dlc in the third game whilst costing thesame amount of money as a full priced release. I even got banned from their forum because is stated that the pirated versions of the game at that point had all of this dlc unlocked, wich ment it was already on the disc but they were desceeving you to think its actual DLC. We really need to give the gaming industry a signal that makes them stop to take stuff out of their games and sell it as so called dlc later. i rather pay more for a complete experience, then pay bit by bit. It feels like theyre dragging us along the line like a dog. You want a new building? thats 4 pound please!

That said dlc on itself is not a bad thing, there are plenty of examples that do it right.

I have no doubt that making a video game is expensive but dont these developers feel that the DLC question is getting a bit rediculous? Triple a titles are not mobile games, it just seems wrong when they use dlc the wrong way. The only redeeming thing they could do for their dlc is make every small dlc with a building and a suit maybe only a pound or 75 pence or release a bunch of the dlc in one big expantion pack like the sims does.

Kalypso, we know you want to pay your people and you want to make money , but taking content out of your game that you had in previous base games and then selling it to us for probably 4 pound a piece is not the way to go =/

As for the bits that are genuinly new dlc that wasnt in tropico 4 yet, i dont mind paying for those as dlc as this is genuine new stuff. There is a really fine line between when DLC is done right or wrong, and some of these dlcs are very close to that line.

I am not attacking anyone, this is just an honest opinion of mine.

[Theme Park Games]

Very well said, Flower. It's nice to see such depth of opinion from a new player. I'm a veteran and agreee with most everything you said. Your post should be one the devs, gms, and bosses print and hang on their wall. Customization, interactivity, personalization is really vital to the overall "fun factor" which is why you and most Tropico veterans prefer 4 to 5. Tropico 5 took some steps forward (in terms of research, trade, managing), but took several steps backwards. Once the devs understand the psychology of the Tropico gamer and listen to the opinion of new and veteran players then the game will get a lot better. To help them along...

1) Most people enjoy identifying with the main character that they play. The more power you give people over that character the more they identify with it. This includes the ability to name El Presidente, control him, develop his skill set, use him to help (i.e. election speeches).

2) Your presales blew away and past Tropico game. That is mainly because people really loved Tropico 4 and expected Tropico 5 to be an overall better experience. But you aren't giving people a reason to play the game longterm. Thus if you pay attention to your percentage of DLC sales, I think you'll see a big drop with Tropico 5 DLCs. People will have moved on because the game not only lacks personalizaiton, personal growth, control, but also a challenge editor so that people have new missions to play while waiting for a DLC. Bad move.

Flower, you should try some of the Tropico 4 user-made challenges. They are a lot of fun and can keep you entertained and invested in Tropico 4 for months.

Cheers.

[doty]

I've enjoyed everyone Tropico game since the original and I have to say Tropico 5 does feel like a big step down for the franchise. All around a less strategic game than in Tropico 4.

And what's with the whole Dynasty thing? Am I the only one who finds it incredibly pointless to have a dynasty when your characters are immortal?

[AndrewG76]

Thanks for some great input in a constructive manner :)

Unlike the other "un-named whine thread" referring to DLC addons and costs associated.

I believe the developers will take onboard peoples 'constructive' opinions on how they should further proceed with making Tropico 5 better as time progresses.

*Thumbs up to the OP, nicely done*

Now only 91 more hours for the player with the most accumulated hours in total madness playing Tropico 5 on raptr AMD evolved gaming lol.

http://raptr.com/viperstrike2611/about

[Freedom]

Well said. *salute*.

T 5 has many good things, it is not so much that is bad, though some things are so unfun I have stopped playing already. It is the little things that they did not do that make this game seem so shallow.

It was so obvious that they left out stuff for DLC. The exuse they have differant teams does not cut it. Before you relase a game, you have 100% focus on that and that alone!!

You could in Tropico 3 and it's over priced expansion Tropico 4, at some point have 100% native citizens. With their non working immigation edicts it is now immpossible.

[JOL1990]

I Just didnt know what to do anymore after a while.. i had to plonk down massive amounts of schools, hospitals, police stations to make em even 76 procent happy... it became so rediculous that i had a police station every 5 streets and 8 big hospitals on this tiny island. the disasters, the coupes and the rebels + the constant bugging with quests or they attack you combined with the horrible framerate once you go past 2400 or so people made me stop playing the game and play tropico 4 wich has a lot more variation and different things to do. i will play the multiplayer in T 5 though =x

[Freedom]

The rebal issue is a very sore point for me. What they hey!! Show me any country that can get 86% plus approval rating for their govermenment that would have 14 rebel attacks in 5 years!

Hell show me one country that would have 55% plus that has so many attacks. It just makes Mid Coldwar and modern times so damn unfun!!

[masteratt]

I don't like from the start you have to rebel. That from the get go feels like a "step to overcome" before you get to the 'freedom' of the game so first few mins are a real chore.

I understand "earning" your freedom might have looked like a good idea on paper but it's tedious to build up a rebellion every time.

[Rapior]

Yes, I totally agree with you. To me the most important thing about Tropico is being a crazy, but succesful dictator. Now your el Presidente does nothing, you cant build crazy overprized stuff, like a Ginant Golden Statue. I also agree with a lot of people here who are annoyed by the demands of the Citzens, I man here in Europe nobody complains because there arent 5 police-stations in a 2000 people Town.

[Emperor Mao]

Totally agree with you here.

I played Tropico 3 and 4 somewhat extensively. I fell in love with the game series because it merged city building with politics, and did so in a way that allowed a person to play the maniac dictator.

Just one example of the differences between 4 and 5.

One game in tropico 4, I had enacted a lot of communist policies. The communists were very pleased with me as a result. The capitalists on the other hand? not so much. I put countless Capitalists in prisons, assassinated a few others, ran pro communist propaganda in all my media outlets. As a result, the Communists were empowered greatly, the Capitalists were oppressed severely. I also built a gold statue of el presidante in the middle of some slum shacks, surrounded by a "fountain" garden. The reasoning? none... just wanted to do something stupid like many dictators in the real world have done.

One game in tropico 5. I built some farms, got some money and immigrants in. Built some industry buildings (Rum distilleries and Plank factories). Got rich, progressed rapidly till the Modern Times. Then globalists were whining about stuff. Built a bunch of churches, embassies and hospitals. They were happy, everyone was happy. Thought it might be fun to banish some environmentalists, who despite loving me, kept protesting. Uprising meter climbed, EVERYONE (not just environmentalists) seemed to rebel, army easily killed them all. Few years later, immigration and births replaced the population, and I realized I was bored. Looking over my city I noticed the decorations started to look the same, the buildings could all be broken down into either A) Money makers, B) Services or C) Army. Then I quit.

It is a stark difference isn't it? there is no real intrigue in Tropico 5. And the lack of decoration options is even more disappointing. I am not sure what the team were going for, but I thought they would expand upon the games strength, not remove it.

[Abalister]

You do realize there's 14 parks total, right? I made some pretty cool lakes, around plantations and stuff. But yeah, the buildings after a while seems repetitive. I've never played Tropico 4, I'm really into getting the last few achievements out of T5, should I get T4? I just don't want to get confused with both of them !!

[Emperor Mao]

İlk olarak Abalister tarafından gönderildi:

You do realize there's 14 parks total, right? I made some pretty cool lakes, around plantations and stuff. But yeah, the buildings after a while seems repetitive. I've never played Tropico 4, I'm really into getting the last few achievements out of T5, should I get T4? I just don't want to get confused with both of them !!

In Tropico 4, the decorations were generally very different. You had Trees, Bushes, Flowers, Statues, Fountains, memorials ect.

It is hard to recommend playing an older version, because some of the features in 5 are really good (example ; multiplayer, and I personally like the dynasty system). But I am already bored of Tropico 5, and have only played about 10 hours. Tropico 4 on the other hand took me well into the 100's of hours played. To me, Tropico 4 has a lot more fun / novelty stuff. It is less about building every building then being bored in the Modern Times, and more about engineering the population / living out your megalomaniac fantasy. I think most avid fans will recommend 4 over 5, but we don't really know what DLC is planned for 5.

[Kateri690]

I agree. I had a thread (which I removed shortly after) where I said I felt like Tropico games in general have been losing their soul. I'm all for improving the features of the game but T5 does feel like a stripped form of T4 with the promises of "fixes" with future DLC...and yes I agree that's the way it seems to go now with games it is stupid.

I also don't feel like a dictator in T5. I think the idea of a dynasty, although perhaps good, was quite shoddily done. I think you should have had more involvement with your Presidente's children, choosing to send them to only the finest regious/military/scientific academies to develop their traits rather than them just being born with them... perhaps some traits could be inherited through the family...perhaps having multiple children might be an advantage in case there is a rebellion! Or heaven forbid the illegitimate son you had after a night of too much fun at the cabaret, who you shunned, rises up against you! Enough said. The idea was good but not fully thought through.

I also agree. I feel like I'm forcing myself to play T5 cause I paid for it... but I'd take T4 first anyday... :(

[Kateri690]

I also agree... the rebillion thing was a good idea but I also hate it at the same time. I think it might have made sense for the occasional map, but not EVERY map and CERTAINLY not multiplayer... can't tell you how many multiplayer games have been botched by all players failing to reach independence

[OWL]

It's a problem with the DLC system no doubt, anyone new to Tropico should buy 4 for dirt cheap with all DLC and then do the same with 5, there is just no reason to own T5 if you have not spent tens or hundreds of hours on T4.

The only way this can be fixed is that T5 had to release with the same amount of depth as T4 + DLC and then build on that with DLC.

T5 has clearly be trimmed down for release with DLC in mind not to mention the almanac is a joke and I'm really glad I didn't pre-order.

[Brakier]

Buildings will come, Tropico 5 depth in trade and peoples wealth makes it an awesome game.