Subier and Narwhal

[nekohybrid2017]

It’s very strange. I didn’t fight Narwhal and talked to her to find out that she was protecting her daughter. A few timeskips later, I went to the Frozen Sea, and Subier was in his second form. What? I thought that only happens if you fight and kill the Narwhal, so how the hell did this happen!?

[Exdeathmore]

If you take too long to defeat Subier after meeting Narwhal, he will find and kill them and power up

[Gloochi]

This can happen in two different scenarios.

Option A: You encountered Subier at the Sunken Ship 19(?) generations after stopping Garon's rebellion.
Option B: You fought Subier as your 5th, 6th, or 7th Hero. Option B is new to the remake. Any Heroes fought 5th or later are automatically forced into their evolved forms, regardless of if you've met their actual requirements.

[unskilled-]

Originally posted by Gloochi:

This can happen in two different scenarios.

Option A: You encountered Subier at the Sunken Ship 19(?) generations after stopping Garon's rebellion.
Option B: You fought Subier as your 5th, 6th, or 7th Hero. Option B is new to the remake. Any Heroes fought 5th or later are automatically forced into their evolved forms, regardless of if you've met their actual requirements.

I somehow kept Dantarg at his level 2 form (he evolved into his 3rd armless form after I beat him up) until he was the last (before Kznisse).

Subier was indeed in his second form despite saving the Narwhal (fought him with 2nd to last Emperor), same with Noel (he was pissed too).

Only met Dantarg once and that was with 2nd Emperor who lost to him. Then 2nd Emperor cleared out South Subterrane and my 6th Emperor cleared out Ministral's Cave and my final Emperor went to Mu Cave.

[unskilled-]

In terms of power levels it would go something like this.. (for my playthrough anyways)

7. Knzisse
6. Bokhon (1st official hero beaten)
5. Dantarg (1st and 2nd form) (last hero beaten before revived Knzisse)
4. Rocbouquet (1st form 2nd official hero beaten)
3. Subier (2nd form.. 4th one beaten to trigger final Emperor *Knzissie makes 5)
2. Wagnas (1st form 3rd official hero beaten)
1. Noel (2nd form and mad at me.. made me actually change my lineup and spells/skills to counter him and only barely beat him before running out of BP)

[Talesin]

Well for me i would say

7. Kzinssie
6. Bokhon
5. Rocbouquet (Aslong as you don't bring any male characters that is)
4. Wagnas (1st form, Firewall makes him easy to handle.)
3. Dantarg (1st and 2nd form)
2. Noel (2nd form, he really is annoying)
1. Subier (2nd form, and he certainly wasn't any easier with his attacks for the final boss.)

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by Gloochi:

Option B: You fought Subier as your 5th, 6th, or 7th Hero. Option B is new to the remake. Any Heroes fought 5th or later are automatically forced into their evolved forms, regardless of if you've met their actual requirements.

Ah dang really? That explains a lot then.
I was disappointed when I saw Subier's second form, expecting the first.
Kinda wanted to avoid that after how the stageplay and re;universe added a lot more character to lil halhul/narwhals daughter

[Ed]

Does anyone know if HP still matters in determining which form of Heroes you get? Like, in new game + is it even possible to get base form of any Hero besides Dantarg and Noel.

[Gloochi]

I did a bit of digging on this myself, and no, it doesn't. Subier and Dantarg work the same as before, but (supposedly, according to a JP wiki guide I found) Bokhohn will evolve if Cumberland falls, and Rocbouquet will evolve if you lose to her in Eirunep as a male emperor and get forced to help her. I did not see anything about Noel or Wagnas being given specific evolution conditions, though, but they may have just not been discovered yet. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, your 5th, 6th, and 7th Heroes will be forced to evolve.

[nekohybrid2017]

Originally posted by Gloochi:

I did a bit of digging on this myself, and no, it doesn't. Subier and Dantarg work the same as before, but (supposedly, according to a JP wiki guide I found) Bokhohn will evolve if Cumberland falls, and Rocbouquet will evolve if you lose to her in Eirunep as a male emperor and get forced to help her. I did not see anything about Noel or Wagnas being given specific evolution conditions, though, but they may have just not been discovered yet. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, your 5th, 6th, and 7th Heroes will be forced to evolve.

It’s simple for Noel. Just fight him after defeating Rocbouquet earlier.

[Gloochi]

Yeah, that's what I was assuming. I just didn't wanna say so without testing myself or finding a source.