Bishop Building

[CeterumCenseo]

There is an interesting discussion going on about how to build bishops in parties in the 12 parties thread.

Originally posted by Zergs:

@CC - my ideas for bishops derive a lot from HOK, so I will respond to some of your points

1) Divinity doesn't need to be #1 priority on any bishop. You don't need Armorplate and Magic Screen at level 5. For the higher-level spells, pretty much everything is available from items. Amulet of Healing / Sanity / Ring of Breezes are better than your own casted spells for a while.

2) HOK builds all 3 bishops for Int/Speed, a build I largely agree with. Unlike Mage/Psionic, bishops can also use the speed boots and Thieves' Buckler for an additional +6 initiative. On continuous combat, you can also animation cancel with a fast wand to move even quicker (but requires player reflexes). See

https://steamcommunity.com/app/245450/discussions/0/3193613712488350471/#c3193613712491263250

2a) In 3-bishop parties, I prefer to dual all 3 (with speed builds) to Psionic late. Fast bishops with mental immunity on Defend guarantee 100% party coverage against Turncoat, and a very high chance of clearing Death Cloud before it procs at the end of the round.

3) Offense >>>> defense until the late game. 3x Magic Missile and 3x Fireball kill everything on Arnika Road without any issues. If you are struggling with plants or whatever, that means you don't have enough magic damage. Remember your Fighters/Valks/Rogues should be Dracons and they can also throw bombs in tough fights.

If you don't have Fighters/Valks/Rogues, that means you probably have Bards/Gadgeteers, which contribute a ton of damage with Piercing Pipes and the Lightning Rod. Ninjas can also throw bombs.

A veteran player who is taking Samurai or Rangers knows what they are getting into. A bishop forced into a bad build to cover for a weak character elsewhere in the party isn't the fault of the bishop, it's the fault of that other character who isn't pulling their weight.

4) Shrill Sound sucks. Magic Missile is way better--lower monster resistances to Divine, higher damage.

Noxious Fumes also sucks when you already have Fireball. Whirlwind sucks. Air as a whole (except Missile Shield) sucks until 5th-level spells, meaning it's is safe to ignore for a long time on Bishops.

5) In 2- or 3-Bishop parties, I also prioritize Alchemy over Wizardry on one Bishop. That guy gets the Light and Stamina books for extra training. Blinding Flash is also very high impact against Gregor, and probably the only early-game crowd control spell actually worth using over a comparable damage spell. Credit to Vysionier for putting BF on my radar.

Wiz 15 is still plenty to make that guy a strong damage dealer with just EB and Magic Missile. I often don't even pick Fireball at level 6 anymore on Wiz-first bishops, it just isn't needed to get to Arnika or UBC.

6) Re: splitting mana, it just comes down to how much you want to rest in the early game. If you are willing to rest every 2-3 fights, 3x Bishops with EB and Magic Missile have plenty of damage output to get to Arnika. You can keep EB to level 1 just for the training, and cast it at higher PLs when your Bishops have more books.

Enchanted Blade isn't needed in the early game since melee mostly sucks anyway. 3x Bishops + Dracons and bombers will kill everything that isn't a boss with zero issues.

(..)

This clarifies and explains a couple of things, but I do not want to continue the discussion in this thread, so branch it off.

The first version of my writing unfortunately was lost, so I need to re-write the whole stuff.


General:

My understanding from HOK's and Zergs' explanations was that those bishops are built with a focus on INT/SPD. Once this is maxxed, what comes after that?

Zergs mentions Artifacts as important and replacement for some mid level divinity spells: Purify Air, Heal All, Sane Mind. How is the Artifacts built? Is the bonus sufficient, do you use the initial 18 skill from identifying bullets and arrows one by one, invest in that skill?

The fairie offers the best INT/SPD package, if I am not mistaken. But it cannot use a shield nor snakeskins, is this a KO, or are there alternatives?

Water also remains somewhat mysterious: There is no buff to raise it, and the spells are not worthwhile. So does the mentioned Iceball start with zero skill?


Specific: WIzDiv

Key spells for all bishops are Energy Blast, Heal, Magic Missile, Fireball. HOK gave Whipping Rocks to (I believe) all his Bishops. Anything else worthwhile to mention?

How is Divinity kept up? Only Heal goes to this school, is the "overcast" sufficient?

Where do points go at level up? Schools, which ones? Realms? Anything else?

Is this a staple build or are there variants for parties needing more or less defense, buffs?


Specific: WizAlc

same key spells, and same questions. What else does the Alchemist get? Blinding flash was mentioned as a possibility for the Gregor battle. I have tested it, but I do not really like it. If it goes through, Gregor runs away, battle ends and my buffs run out. I prefer to have the battle ended "naturally". Therefore my preference is the Stink Bomb: In case of Nausea, it reduces Gregor's AC and increases the CtH, and the possibility Gregor misses some or all of his attacks in that turn, Unconsciousness is even better, of course. Even if only for one turn, I like it.

Also HOK seems to be able to manage Alchemy relatively well on the bishop. Goal is to reach 50 in Arnika, which has worked. He also mentioned that Alchemy overtook Wizardry, but for such a short timeframe, Light and Chameleon do not have a real impact, and KnockKnock would have to take many turn to bring Alchemy by itself further than 1 tick. Or is your experience different?


Specific: WizPsi

same key spells, additionally Insanity, and the same questions: What other spells? I had the impression Mind Stab would have given additional development in Psionics
Is Psionics pushed only with Heal and Insanity (and allocation until 15 skill).

Are these 3 the only builds (with a 3rd realm, once the first are running by themselves)?

Now about the buffs:

Light is found very early, who gets it and why? Alchemy is the optimum candidate in my opinion to get it to 50 Asap.

Missile Shield is a very good defensive buff against ranged attacks from Noxious Slimes, Seekers, Gregor, some bandit types and various spike spitting plants on Arnika Road. So I think a very good investment, the earlier the better. Unfortunately the skill it builds doesn't seem to have any value, because there seem no worthwhile spells in Air before Lv5. So skill building is not a priority.

Enchanted Blade: For melee, it doesn't matter. Ranged hits more often at short distance, so it could be useful for ranged attacks. But Enchanted Blade is available in Arnika, and Magic Missile also builds skill, so why use a spell pick for it?

Armorplate: Personally I think that Armorplate is not really useful to take a spellpick, except for the fact it builds skill. It is not available in Arnika, so does it deserve a spell pick? The next divinity spell in that realm is Lv7 Falling Stars, so why bother now? Or is it for the support with Wizardry Whipping Rocks/Crush?

Magic Screen: Explicitly mentioned to wait with it until Arnika.

Shadow Hound: For me never a high priority on a mage and on a bishop even lower. Functionally it is not really required, party should not camp in the open anyway early on, so the only usage again is skil building for the "weak" Air realm? How do you assess its priority, and which character should take it?

Chameleon: Functionally I do not understand it yet after 23 years of playing, how it works and what it prevents. I have the impression I get attacked at the same time with or without it, but there are strong defenders of this skill. But it certainly does build skill, if regularly used, and HOK mentioned it for his own WizAlc character as pick (because only Kunar sells it).

Detect Secrets: I almost never buy or take a pick for it. It is for free in Trynton and I do not have the impression to miss anything without that spell. Other experiences?



X-Ray: For me always the first spell I take with any Wizardry casting char at Lv 8. If I choose something else I regret it on the doorsteps of Arnika already. But to which char give it to? To the WizPsi to increase its Mental Realm asap (this was mpnorman's suggestion that the combination of buffs and damage provided the biggest returns later on)? Or keep it seperate to WizAlc, who has no damage spell until the 3rd (Psi) realm comes, or Concussion?


Then I would like to come to a few other spells (I do not mention damage spells, because I think this is out of the question):

Guardian Angel: The statement I read is it is sufficient to buy in Arnika.

Identify was not covered at all so far: Who gets is: WizPsi (because of skill growth synergy with his damage spells) or WizDiv, to keep fighting and identifying deliberately seperated?

Element and Soul Shield: Certainly 2 spell picks, but not really urgent.

KnockKnock: In my experience it gives some skill to open a stubborn lock with the Earth spell. But there are too few stubborn locks in the game to build upon it, so it is a utility spell, a good utility spell, but it can be bought from Anna, so comes without compromises.
The WizAlc seems to be the natural habitat for this spell, because only Alchemy (and Wizardry, but all builds have that) has offensive spells in Earth before L7. Can this be confirmed?

Same goes for Divine Trap, but here the question is similar like for X-Ray. Keep those mana points reserved for chests, or integrate them into the plethora what a Psi can do with the mana and the skill?

Last question is about the sleep spell. I mean everybody says, how useful it is on the early bard, but for a caster it never seems to be an option or is mentioned, not even negatively. It doesn't seem to exist. I understand that for a bishop it is even harder to get the right priority, and Air has no big value, so what the fuzz? But can someone explain this divergence between the lute and the book?

Thanks for your comments, I think they really help to get the potential of the bishop clear.

@Zergs: I read through some of the comments about your experience on Ascension peak. Of course a lot of thoughts and ideas come to my mind. But since that is now 2 years back, I wait for another opportunity, should you do another run, if it is still interesting for you.

[HOK1970]

I have now written a lot about my Bishop builds in the thread about your 12 party project.
Now I have seen that you have opened a new topic on this, but I don't want to repeat everything.

Just here is a short stating:

1. Must have Spell Picks IMO for every Bishop:
Start: Energy Blast, Heal Wounds
Level 3: Magic Missiles + One Wizardry Buff (Enchanted Blade and Missile Shield must have)
Level 6: Fireball, Whipping Rocks
Level 8 or 9: Iceball, 1 x X-Ray, 1 x Armormelt, 1x Element Shield, 1x Soul Shield
Level 11: Portal and Summon Elemental

All other spells deemed necessary can be purchased or chosen from the rest of the spell picks. Level 6 and especially level 7 spells are not a must have for the Bishop.

Important to buy if no spell pick: GA, Identiyfy, Knock Knock, Screen, Rest all, Armorplate, Chameleon (and all available buffs), Insanity, Sane Mind, Less Cond., Purify Air, Heal All, Light, Soul and Elemental Shield, Armormelt.

Attributes:
1. Priority Intelligence
2. Priority Initiative = Speed +Senses: I do it in such a way that I first increase Senes to 70 and then increase speed. Once Int is maximized, Senses and Speed are increased.
For Melee Alchemy Bishops (Humans):
3. INT+DEX with 3. Priority Str could be good for Alchemy Bishop with melee.

Races: Elves are best for hight Initiative, Human for + melee. No Faeries = No Shield +squishy. Bishop can equip slightly good armor but no Faeries and you need Speed + Senses for initative build.

Buffs: Every Bishop needs a Wizardry buff at level 3. Later buy buff books for each Bishop to train skills at each realm. Buffs are always useful for a spell pick.
Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, X-Ray must have.
Chameleon useful: Enemies in the distances can hardly see you and you could surprise them starting combat (firballs from distance), doesn't work if enemy is near.
Shadow Hound: Camp, if Cultists are near with this buff. They stand in your range when you awake and could kill them easier.
Armorplate : Useful, higher AC
Detect Secrets: Useful for Bishop with Psionics as 2. Priority to start Mental realm for later Insanity

Skills:
Spellbooks: 1. All Wizardry first priority for damage spells. 2. 1 x Divinity and 1x Alchemy for 2. Priority, other books is up to you what you like.

realm skills:
1. Start Fire and Divine
2. Earth
3. Water
Mental: somewhere between 2. und 4.
Air: No need (only Missile Shield + Portal) but if you like

Class change: Change before Ascension Peak to Psionic (best Option/Imunity) or Alchemist (best Level 7 damage spells).

[CeterumCenseo]

Originally posted by HOK1970:

I have now written a lot about my Bishop builds in the thread about your 12 party project.
Now I have seen that you have opened a new topic on this, but I don't want to repeat everything.

Thanks, not necessary. I tried to take already as much as possible from your earlier thread to save you writing.

Originally posted by HOK1970:

Just here is a short stating:

1. Must have Spell Picks IMO for every Bishop:
Start: Energy Blast, Heal Wounds
Level 3: Magic Missiles + One Wizardry Buff (Enchanted Blade and Missile Shield must have)
Level 6: Fireball, Whipping Rocks
Level 8 or 9: Iceball, 1 x X-Ray, 1 x Armormelt, 1x Element Shield, 1x Soul Shield
Level 11: Portal and Summon Elemental

All other spells deemed necessary can be purchased or chosen from the rest of the spell picks. Level 6 and especially level 7 spells are not a must have for the Bishop.

Thanks, with the exception of Heal and Soul Shield these are all Wizardry spells. Would then a mage, with its many advantages not be even better?

Originally posted by HOK1970:

Important to buy if no spell pick: GA, Identify, Knock Knock, Screen, Rest all, Armorplate, Chameleon (and all available buffs), Insanity, Sane Mind, Less Cond., Purify Air, Heal All, Light, Soul and Elemental Shield, Armormelt.




Buffs: Every Bishop needs a Wizardry buff at level 3. Later buy buff books for each Bishop to train skills at each realm. Buffs are always useful for a spell pick.
Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, X-Ray must have.

If I understand correctly, you finally give Missile Shield and Enchanted blade to all bishops in the party. How do you cope then with the 3 minute timer.

Originally posted by HOK1970:

Chameleon useful: Enemies in the distances can hardly see you and you could surprise them starting combat (firballs from distance), doesn't work if enemy is near.
Shadow Hound: Camb, if Cultists are near with this buff. They stand in your range when you awake and could kill them easier.

For Chameleon, I know the theory, but for me, I do not recognize a difference between having it on or not. No more surprise attacks, not less aggro and combat starts at the same distance with and without for me.

Shadow hound, very good trick to lure them into melee distance. The only thing is that their elemental is then also in short reach...

Originally posted by HOK1970:

Skills:
Spellbooks: 1. All Wizardry first priority for damage spells. 2. 1 x Divinity and 1x Alchemy for 2. Priority, other books is up to you what you like.

realm skills:
1. Start Fire and Divine
2. Earth
3. Water
Mental: somewhere between 2. und 4.
Air: No need (only Missile Shield + Portal) but if you like

I will come back to those answers in more detail later. Thanks for your explanations.

[Zergs]

Great thread, CC. HOK and I have a half-written Bishop guide that we started on a few years ago that goes into depth on many of these questions. We ought to finish it and put it out there. In the meantime--

(all of this speaking for myself, and not necessarily HOK)

1) Stats

Int/Spd is a great build, but I've found Bishops to be quite forgiving in terms of stat spread. As long as I pump Int, I've had effective bishops with Pie, Vit, Dex, Spd and Sen as second stats.

For what comes third, it doesn't matter, since you won't have problems beating the game and you won't get a 3rd stat to 100. Vit or Sen are probably best for partial investments.

The critical skills for bishops are all on the left side and all except Divinity are governed by Int. Furthermore, since a Bishop will cast spells on 95% of rounds in a reasonably-balanced party, Power Cast has by far the biggest impact.

2) Party comp

# of bishops in the party matters. HOK and I now both like 3x bishop parties (I use macros) and with 3x bishops, you can defend, wait for the monsters to rush in, cast 3x AOE, next round starts, if you have high initiative Bishops, they cast again before the monsters move so you got 6x casts in a row. That kills almost anything, especially because Bishops can always target the monster's weakness with the best AOE. It doesn't even matter what the rest of the party does. But if you have instruments, Dracon Breath, bombs, Mindblast Rod, an extra mage, etc, that's even more AOE.

For that strategy, you need Spd or Sen. Both can work--Geepope prefers Int/Sen, HOK prefers Int/Spd. If you are planning to stay in Bishop Spd is probably better because the +20 Snake Speed boots only work if Snake Speed is unlocked.

3) Race

Race is almost always elf, unless you are going for an Str/Int staff build or something. You don't need max possible speed at the beginning. Faerie gives up too much in terms of lost equipment. Faerie bishop is totally viable, but it's weaker in the long-term than elf.

I sometimes take other races, but just for variety. If you want a slow bishop, Gnome is also good.

4) Artifacts

I split stacks for Artifacts to 18, and then split stacks and right-click identify for Alchemy, so Bishops pumping Int and 55 base Sen get a ton of skillups. Using Amulet of Healing requires 81 Artifacts for no backfire, so ~65 base gets you there. Even if you are short of backfire by a few points, backfires are rare, and Amulet of Healing needs are also rare in a strong party.

5) Realms

I run around everywhere so I use Rest All a lot. I also set up casting macros for junk spells like Paralyze, Slow and Freeze Flesh, so I cobble together the water points. Acid Splash and Frost also help once I find the books. In easy battles or cleanup rounds I just spam these junk spell macros to train realms and dump mana.

The whole strength of the bishop is that it cross-trains realms using different books--EB sets up Blinding Flash which sets up Fireball which sets up Firebomb which sets up Lightning which sets up Nuclear Blast, etc.

With 100 Int and 60-70, realms train very fast, even from a low level. Water gets used a ton in the mid-late game, so it always finishes pretty high for me.

Air tends to lag the most for me on Bishops, since Air is usually my last choice of offensive realm.

6) Spell picks

I am greedy so I try to save as many picks as possible, but that's not optimal.

Picks depend on # of bishops in the party. EB is a must-take. Heal is optional.

At level 3, grab Magic Missile and split Enchanted Blade/Missile Shield/Blinding Flash among your bishops. The alchemy guy gets BF. In a 4-bishop party I would have a guy take Detect Secrets as well.

At level 6, grab Fireball if you feel unsafe on Arnika Road. Whipping Rocks is absolutely worth the pick because the book is so rare and expensive.

After that you have access to all the vendors so you can do whatever you want.

(I also like to use fresh Bishop imports from Wiz7 these days, so this changes my picks a bit from the above.)

7) Builds

In a 3 bishop party, I like Wiz/Psi, Alc/Wiz, and Wiz/Div as my 3.

Priorities are (in order)

1) Alchemy to 40 at any cost on one character. Alchemy needs to be ABOVE wizardry on this character. Meaning, for Wiz 15, his Alchemy needs to be 16. This guy gets the light book and stamina book, and full dumps Water mana whenever possible. Blinding Flash is extremely powerful against Gregor even on Expert.

2) Wizardry to 15 for Magic Missile on everyone. This kills everything in the Upper Monastery and also, along with Energy Blast, gets you through Arnika Road, even without Fireball. If the Alchemy guy in a 3-bishop party gets Magic Missile a level late, that's fine. 2x Magic Missile still murders everyone in the Upper Monastery.

3) Wizardry to 30 for Fireball and Whipping Rocks on everyone

4) Divinity to 30 on one guy - the Divinity guy is still Div 2nd, but once you get to 30, that book trains easily from Rest All (Braffit), Armorplate (Kunar) and Magic Screen (Braffit). Bless and Divine Trap from the Monastery train Divinity, and Identify Item (bought in Arnika) will be needed for Cure Diseases and Renewals. All this together will get you a lot of training.

Remember Bishops have tons of mana from all their spellbooks so you can cast all these buffs and still have plenty of mana to fight with.

5) Divinity to 15 on the other two (Guardian Angel training)

6) Psi to 15 on everyone, mana dump Insanity for training.

Having a dedicated Wiz/Psi actually doesn't matter, since it doesn't have any unique utility spells you need. Psionic spells are more powerful when they are stacked, so I value training Psionics on everyone eventually.

7) Allocation of points

After I get these basics, I spend level-up points on bringing up lagging books. Since realms train 4x as fast as books do, I try to spend the minimum possible points on realms to get the basic spells into the green.

Spending points

Get everyone's Alchemy to 40, at which potion mixing powerlevels it to endgame levels.
Get everyone's Divinity to 30, at which point Rest All and rotating Armorplate/Magic Screen will get everyone to 60+ by the endgame.
Get everyone's Psionics to 45 for Ego Whip.

All remaining points put into books until they get to 75. In practice, my no-grind bishops only get to level 7 spells in two books before finishing the game.

8) Buffs

There are 9 out of combat buffs in Wiz8: Light, EB, Missile Shield, Detect Secrets, Armorplate, MS, Shadow Hound, X-ray, Chameleon.

The reason to use a pick on Enchanted Blade is because it maximizes training opportunities per rest even before Arnika--it's good for whoever is lagging in Wizardry. But it can be skipped if you want to save the pick with little impact. The same is true for Shadow Hound, Chameleon, etc., it all comes down to whether or not you want to maximize the training or wait for the books.

The more bishops in the party, the more I want to maximize the training early.

I rotate the buffs among the Bishops depending on who knows the spells and needs the training. X-ray goes to whoever hits 45 Wiz first.

9) Learning books

I try to roughly spread out the books among the bishops into ways that I can organize them into macros. For example, if one bishop has Itching Skin and the second has Web, I will put my next available earth cone on the third bishop so that is my "no damage earth training macro". I'll split Shrill Sound and Whirlwind, etc.

10) Specific spells to look for

GA - trains Div guaranteed. Really nice for pushing to 30 Divinity.
Insanity - trains Psi guaranteed, great for dumping excess Mental mana for offense and pushing towards Psionic Fire/Ego Whip.

Soul Shield - in my experience, in a party with good mental coverage, this spell is almost not needed. I need it mostly for Bayjin, so it's fine to get it a bit late.

The Marten's Bluff ghosts can be easily killed around the corner with 3x Fireball.

Element Shield - I am greedy and usually buy this from Crock. Casting responsibilities shift among the bishops based on my macro setups.

Identify - goes to the Divine Trap guy. Mostly important for identifying Cure Disease/Renewals.

Knock Knock - I sometimes do a short grind with this on the Alchemy guy to get to 40. I've timed it, going from ~34-40 takes about 7 minutes. After that I buy KK books when available for everyone.

Sleep - imported bishops start with it, so I sometimes use it for training. I set up a 3x or 4x or 5x (with Bard) sleep spam macro.

Paralyze - a great spell to dump water mana, since the backfires are inconsequential in easy fights. Imported bishops start with it.

Basically, rush Alchemy to generate money and then backfill books as you visit vendors throughout the game. You will have most spells on most characters and have more mana than you know what to do with.

----

I do have some bishop runs in mind. I am thinking about doing an 8-bishop challenge as well as a run of HOK's 3x Fighter/3x Bishop party. Both would be streamed, so you can see how I use the class.

The bishops in those two parties would be built differently.

[Horpner Sneed]

The focus on Fire and Divine is really good, and probably best, but I don't believe it is best by a huge margin. Air/Earth is also a strong early combination. The sad part about Air/Earth is that your level one spells are now Sleep and Itching Skin, a far less tempting combination than Energy Blast and nothing.

[CeterumCenseo]

@Zergs:

Thanks a lot for all the effort and your explanations. Just want to encourage you to come up with your bishop guide, even if version 1 is not perfect. This would be really going to help a lot of people how to build strong bishops. It would be a pity, if it got buried under these threads. Of course only until AI starts writing guides online just from the existing forum posts

Kindly allow me a few remarks:

1) I understand these bishop will do magic and only magic till the end. So you need support for the few fights when magic alone is not the solution. So I expect your mentioned 6-8 bishop parties will work differently.

2) You mention Dracon Breath quite often. I personally use Dracon Breath only in survival critical situations, because while it has a nice AoE effect, it doesn't build skill. So if I have the chance to beat the enemy with melee, ranged or magic attacks, I prefer those.

3) Your SPD preference is explained, this means that Haste is not used very often or not at all to keep the order of movement plannable. Including Haste and excluding situations, when Haste has no or limited effect, pumping SEN has the better effect on INI, because it cannot be boosted with a party spell (only Superman)

4) School priorities are very clear, and I conclude that with Alchemy at 40 and stack splitting you can bring the char to 50 in Arnika, which is necessary for cash and also restoration potions en masse.

5) I do not quite understand the remark of Wizardry 15. Elf Bishops start with 7 skill in Wizardry + 5 at allocation is 12 + another 3 at Lv2 should already do it. Or do the allocation points go elsewhere? Realms, to reduce backfire risk?

6) You mention Armorplate from Kunar, but this involves an early visit of UBC, allegiance to the Umpani. Does that mean that using that hidden portal is a prerequisite for the build?

7) Also understand that you use Identify as part of Divinity training, not psionics. You explain further down why. Clear.

8) Psionic is for me the only class to make use of that tons of mental mana during combat, too precious to be wasted. Psionic has also outstanding defensive capabilities in some situations. For these 2 reasons I like to have on char focused on Psionics second.

9) About points allocation, take into account that realms have an impact on casting skill 4x as high as books in their realm. So getting key spells into the green in most cases is faster with training realms than books imo. More to come on that. Books is important to get higher level skills, and if your spells of one book are spread out across more than 4 books. I do not have the complete overview over the consequences for bishops yet, but I suspect improvement potential in this case.

10) About these buffs, I fully agree with you. A bishop always has tough choices with every spell pick: Shadow Hound or Iceball? Chameleon or Elemental Shield? Both build skill, one in combat, one out of combat. I plan to provide data on the effectiveness of these spells.

11) I also understand you even out training of realms with "empty spells", spells that are not supposed to have an impact on the battle, but are for the training.

12) The marten's bluff ghosts come in different flavors, my SFN recently had Lv18 ones. Three fireballs won't be sufficient for those. But even if you need 10 Fireballs, the message is understood.

13) I understand the usage of KnockKnock training to get Alchemy to 40.

Again thanks to you and HOK for sharing your experiences with bishs.