Each Hybrid Party

[Zyro Mane]

This is something I have thought about for a long time. What's a good build and play plan for a six member party consisting of each spell-casting warrior class? Especially if one was to try it on expert. One issue is the slow development of warrior spell-casting. Those buffs are rather important. Recent experience suggest that putting skill up points into realms is nigh mandatory for hybrids to develop magic in a reasonable time. Or just grind. Is the best game plan really just to rush the MBR for the monk? Potentially with artifacts grinding with reunidentifying. Can it be done, without too much hair pulling, with minimal grinding? And if so, what's the builds?

My thoughts are str/dex is just king. But how bad would it be if all six were dracon? Bright side, is that much breath can give the party an early edge. But higher pie would also give an edge just a bit down the road, but would be far less useful by endgame. Is going all extended weapons a bad idea? A variety of weapons might be more fun...

[Woofy]

I Switch classes at 1st level. It seems to work well.

Human Psionic to Monk doing hand to hand combat. No worries about equipment and you get a good start on Psionics for your Monk. The Sense is useful too, but Str/Dex focus as usual.

Rawulf Priest to Lord using mace. Equipment is also pretty similar. Str / Dex. Rawulfs gets pretty good stats for these classes. Nice resistances and the chance to use the Ring of Beasts which only beasts can use: I.E Felpurr, Rawulfs, and Trynnies. The ring is an occassional drop from Ratkin or Trynnie.

Hobbit Alchemist to Ranger: Good alchemy (duh) and you can find a bow in the Monastery pretty soon. Focus Dex / Sense..then Strength.

Hobbit Thief to Bard: Great Dex start, Also, the 10 points you can take in initial stealth are nice. You don't start with an instrument, but you can buy it from Heli if you really want it. Also, it's super easy to train once you get the charm instrument. I focus on Dex and Speed (for pickpockets, and quick Bard Songs) then Strength.

Okay Hybrid
Hobbit Mage to Sammurai. Good spell casting soon, like everyone else. You will probably get a sword in the lower monastery. If not, you can always buy one from Burz or borrow one from your Bard. This Hybrid could be replaced. But I like having a Hybrid for each category: Priest, Mage, Psionic, and Alchemy. Dex / Strength

Great Hybrid and highly recommended, but not a Warrior
Elf Mage to Bishop. Int / Piety then Vitality for a bit. Your Intelligence will be super high and you can get more hp and wear better armor than traditional mages, so your survival rate will increase. Also, Bishops Rock.

Let me know if that helps!
Cheers! and Happy New year! :)

[Slooge]

I'm going to assume you mean hybrid classes, not class changing.

I've done this a few times. I think when it comes to stats, it depends on what you're more focused on, casting or melee abilities. That being said...

The party I've done was with a lord on each flank, using shields. I put vit/pie as their primary as they would need to soak the most damage being the sole defenders in the side positions. This also gives them a decent leg up in the casting department along with shield blocking damage and innate hp regen. Once pie/vit hit 100, they also get yet more damage reductions, which helps immensely.

For the rest, I put 3 in the middle with extended range melee weapons, and 1 in the back with a sword/shield and a bow. The 3 in the center did str/dex, the one in the back did dex/senses and was the ranger of course.

imo, str/dex is great for hybrids in general; however, since you do need a couple of spell casters for buffs, it's a good idea to have a couple characters built to focus more on being a caster than a melee. You only need 1 priest and 1 mage spellbook caster to cover all the buffs in the game. Those 2 might be beneficial to do piety/int for the level ups instead of str/dex.

[Zyro Mane]

I have an issue with clarity, that is my fault. I specifically mean a party with a lord, valkyrie, ranger, samurai, ninja, and monk. I tend to not recruit RNPCs.

The first post is obviously a good party, it has a bard and a bishop.

I have a party with an alchemist, a bishop, and a ranger. I do not split stack mix. The ranger is a rawulf and magic has been developing swimmingly, but I think that's more due to pushing realms during level up than the piety, but the piety certainly helps. Maybe making the valk and samurai humans would be a good idea, possibly even pushing piety higher for the first few levels, would make the whole thing go smoothly. The problem with playing on expert is how long it takes to get magical resistances high enough to power through with melee. On the bright side, lots of healing. Maybe worth it to put points into divine on most of the party when that comes up...

Not to mention the pain of ninja as party disarmer.

Also, thanks for the posts, that's should help me understand the systems better. I've been stuck in a str/dex mentality for quite some time now. A tank would be a great idea for such a party, and the divinity casters are the best options for such.

That's one thing I've always wondered, is dex/sen or str/sen better in the long run. The former is much faster to-hit, which does seem great for expert. And, strength can always be a third option for damage and cc later on. But, how is pumping all three? I.e. going 2-2-2?

Also, yes, mage to sam is possibly the best way to do a samurai. Those realm points make a word of difference. And if magic development isn't important, that suggest having a mage or bishop, making the samurai a bit less desirable. Although, infinity helm and Zatoichi bo is not nothing.

[Mardoin69]

I use to do the 1 level class switch (magic user to Hybrid) and have a Hybrid for each school of magic. I found this wasn't real beneficial in the long run. The real trick is getting magic off the ground as early as possible. But, if you are starting Hybrids right out of the gate (no class switching) you will be 100% combat for the first 4 levels. This means you don't need to be grinding combat skills... it'll come naturally. However, you will need to be spreading some points on level ups across school and realms for their magic use--to get it off the ground for when they hit level 5. Then you need to do some spell grinding. Once magic school + realms are built up a bit, it just starts working on it's own--without grinding. Ofc, that depends what your definition of 'grinding' is also. When I say grinding, I mean like sitting around outside of combat doing spellcasting / camping and spamming spells. It is not grinding (IMO) if you are intentionally neglecting melee / ranged and focusing on spellcasting during combat. That's just regular training imo... which is necessary to get them Hybrids decent with Magic.

That being said, the one level Mage to Hybrid can be super helpful since they get those realm points right out of the gate. That's probably the only class switch I can feel 'good' about. Otherwise, it just feels like a waste of a level to me.

Edit: Dx/Sen vs Str/Sen vs 2/2/2
My op is that Dex/Sen would be optimal, with Str. following up as a 3rd for the benefits you mentioned.

The 2/2/2 plan is 'ok' but, that means you will not get the Special skills as soon. Going 3/3 means you open up the special at earlier levels and get that Special building up sooner. You then follow up with (Str. in this example) afterward to then open up the next Special. Ofc, if you don't care about it taking several levels more to unlock both + the 3rd at the same time, then that's a viable strategy too.

[Zergs]

Hybrid parties are tough.

Here's a playthrough I tried with 2 valks, 3 rangers and a samurai:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOmEZU8U_zCaTD47TaYuzOhbCftslYCUt

Probably the most difficult run I've done so far (even the 7 RPC party was easier), because hybrids are just... not good. They don't do anything well. I think Valkyrie is the only one that gets the "blend of spellcaster and warrior" done decently.

If it was 6 mixed hybrids, I think the party would be better--monks can be solid (OP with MBR), and there are enough throwing weapons for one ninja. Lord is decent if Dracon, and not massively worse than Valkyrie. A Mindblast Monk, bomber Ninja and 2-3 Dracons (Lord, Valk, Sam) fixes the hybrid party's problem of lack of early AOE.

If dual-classing, it becomes a lot easier. I'd go Valk, Ninja, Priest-->Lord, Mage-->Sam, and Bishop-->Monk, and Bishop-->Ranger.

[CeterumCenseo]

Originally posted by Zergs:

Hybrid parties are tough.

Here's a playthrough I tried with 2 valks, 3 rangers and a samurai:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOmEZU8U_zCaTD47TaYuzOhbCftslYCUt

Probably the most difficult run I've done so far (even the 7 RPC party was easier), because hybrids are just... not good. They don't do anything well. I think Valkyrie is the only one that gets the "blend of spellcaster and warrior" done decently.

If it was 6 mixed hybrids, I think the party would be better--monks can be solid (OP with MBR), and there are enough throwing weapons for one ninja. Lord is decent if Dracon, and not massively worse than Valkyrie. A Mindblast Monk, bomber Ninja and 2-3 Dracons (Lord, Valk, Sam) fixes the hybrid party's problem of lack of early AOE.

If dual-classing, it becomes a lot easier. I'd go Valk, Ninja, Priest-->Lord, Mage-->Sam, and Bishop-->Monk, and Bishop-->Ranger.

You make me dream...

But that's maybe for later.

Reminds me of my only run I stopped because I was stuck: This was with 6 Ninjas, which were excellent until Lv12, and then utterly failed in the possible next areas: Toasted in Mt. Wilderness, toasted in Rapax, toasted in Bayjin. I did not want to push them through somehow, like in a solo game, so I stopped this one.

[Zergs]

Yeah, I got tired of playing my hybrid party, even though it has finally hit its power spike with 6x Infinity Helms.

Somehow, playing mostly casters is just more fun :)

[Horpner Sneed]

A hybrid party with no Bishop lacks Element and Soul Shield for a time in the game where those spells are needed. Levels 9 to 14 are thus more challenging and more frustrating than usual. Enemies that normal parties sneer at can cause dismay--my favorite examples being the normally lowly slimes and plants of the wild, mid-level areas of the game.

I advise investing a few characters in Thrown skill for bombs (everyone can use them) and at least one character in Artifacts for Fire Stix and Rocket Stix (all hybrids but the Ranger, Lord and Valkyrie can use them). If you don't, you'll find some of the early level spawns harder than usual because you lack area effect damage. You'll be surprised how much damage a group of ants can do when you don't destroy them all instantly.

Your melee and ranged damage will be flat-out worse than a normal party, but it should be good enough.

Finally, on the bright side, hybrids are really sturdy. All that baby-sitting and using combat formations and other such gunk is not really needed.

[Mardoin69]

Originally posted by Horpner Sneed:

A hybrid party with no Bishop lacks Element and Soul Shield for a time in the game where those spells are needed.
...

I always have a Bishop when using a Hybrid party. Mainly for the reason(s) discussed. Can't really count on Hybrids for your Spells for quite a while--which is especially an issue when those Shielding spells are needed. So, I rely on my Bishop to fill that role. Later, my Hybrids start pulling their weight in the magic damage department. Early game, they are mostly melee with some magic practice getting in.

[CeterumCenseo]

Originally posted by Horpner Sneed:

A hybrid party with no Bishop lacks Element and Soul Shield for a time in the game where those spells are needed. Levels 9 to 14 are thus more challenging and more frustrating than usual. Enemies that normal parties sneer at can cause dismay--my favorite examples being the normally lowly slimes and plants of the wild, mid-level areas of the game.

I advise investing a few characters in Thrown skill for bombs (everyone can use them) and at least one character in Artifacts for Fire Stix and Rocket Stix (all hybrids but the Ranger, Lord and Valkyrie can use them). If you don't, you'll find some of the early level spawns harder than usual because you lack area effect damage. You'll be surprised how much damage a group of ants can do when you don't destroy them all instantly.

Your melee and ranged damage will be flat-out worse than a normal party, but it should be good enough.

Finally, on the bright side, hybrids are really sturdy. All that baby-sitting and using combat formations and other such gunk is not really needed.

About Elemental and Soul Shield: I remember Zergs had some suggestions with race selection + a few items to go without those spells completely? Would that help? Just to mention, my previous solo projects went without magic protection (Magic Screen, Elemental Shield and/or Soul Shield. I admit that solo play is easier in this case, because to get one char through is easier than all in a party. Solo games have encounters also at higher levels, so this experience is not a 100% correct comparison.

About throwing things: I propagate the usage of these goodies myself and some high level bombs require investment into T&S skill for the major part of the game. Killing ants is one example, but also having Roustabouts and Highwaymen with 20 HPs less is welcome, even if the effect is not immediately visible.

Unfortunately the better artifacts sticks, of the hybrids only the ninja can use them, not sam nor monk.

[Zergs]

I mostly try to set parties up to skip Soul Shield.

Skipping Elemental Shield is possible but difficult--usually requires magic grinding and very specific race/endgame gear setups. Too complex most of the time.