Is it possible to play the game without following a guide for party creation?

[Koboss]

Title, I don't really like playing games while chained to a guide, especially on my first playthrough.

[mpnorman10]

Yes!

As a writer of a guide for new players I can tell you definitely that you do NOT need any sort of guide to play this game and win. I did not use a guide and won the game on my 2nd try.

Study of the excellent Manual can help, just to know how things work mechanically. Also, when studying the classes, races and other factors to consider when creating characters and parties, there is a lot of information there. Use it.

If you just choose a random party, yeah, it will probably be a tough game but you can learn a lot for a 2nd or 3rd try.

In at least my case the guide was created to spark creativity, not rob it. Many players will create dozens of different parties and try many different characters within them. The guide is intended to be a hands-on introduction, not the end.

[dugalm]

This is a game where you adventure into an unknown world and learn by experience. It is hard but that is the point of the wizardry games! There are puzzle to solve and that too is what makes the adventure interesting! Just look at everything! Create your party and try them in the world and save often in different slot so that you can come back to a previous place. You might even create an entire new party. Or you probably will re-roll often until you are satisfied with the stats. This is a game where grinding is essential to get better and survive; no guide will help you there! Just play this game and have fun!

[mpnorman10]

Originally posted by dugalm:

This is a game where grinding is essential to get better and survive; no guide will help you there! Just play this game and have fun!

No, absolutely not. There is no need to grind or cheat in any other way, even on Expert difficulty. Players can use repetitive grinding or any other workaround or cheat they wish, whatever is fun, but do not let anyone tell you such methods are necessary.

Also, there is no "rolling" in this game when creating characters and parties. One of the very greatest things about this game is that, for a given race and profession, the bonus attribute and skill points is fixed. Thus any design a player claims works well can be tested, objectively, by other players who then concur or disagree, another huge plus for this game.

[Horpner Sneed]

Here are some tips. No quest spoilers, but a few spoilers for game mechanics there's no way you could know about beforehand, but will save you some annoyance. It only touches on battle tactics, which a whole 'nother set of tips.

1. The Adventurer's Journal does a nice job of recording almost all the important facts you need to know.
2. A Ranger is a good idea for your first party, so you don't have to fuss about turning Search on and off. However, most hidden items are in places you'd naturally think to Search, so if a Ranger doesn't interest you, then don't take one. You do not need to find any hidden items to complete the quest, but Gadgets are mostly hidden, so if you've got a Gadgeteer you'll need Search.
3. This might go without saying for this kind of game: Explore everywhere.
4. Magic buffs are strong in this game and worth prioritizing.
5. Speaking to the non-player-characters (NPC's) will really flesh out the game, and sometimes provides important clues. The voice acting is above average, especially for the era.
6. You don't need to worry about doing things in the "correct" order. If you go somewhere and it feels too difficult, it's fine to turn around and explore somewhere else.
7. Your characters will naturally become better at the things they usually do.
8. The Pickpocket and Shoplift system is horribly broken. Ignore it.
9. Axes are a sub-optimal choice. If that bothers you, pick a different weapon.
10. Enemies spawn based on your average party level, but in a range of enemy levels, which expands as you level up. When an enemy out-levels your party, everything they do to you is easier, and everything you do to them is harder. A level seven party of Brigands can be extremely dangerous to a level four party, while a joke to a level ten party.
11. If you think your party is overmatched running away is a good idea.

[malkavius77]

One thing is that the game can already take a pretty long time to beat even without a guide. Playing blind can be rough and you can get frustrated especially due to the old school nature of certain quests or objectives and combat. Although certainly not as rough as older games they can still stump you and even vets suffer from burn out due to the length of fights and how many there are. So a guide is very dependent on how much time you have and are willing to put into what could turn into a 100-150 hr blind game. I think most of the replies in here kind of suffer from what I often see in many older rpgs style gamers saying "oh just jump in you can do eeet!". And from what I have observed over the years pure optimism gets the new players hyped but often they quit rather quickly due to vets having rose tinted glasses and far more time and nostalgia into the game.

It's an amazing game probably my top 3 favorite, but don't expect the game to hold your hand. Expect to die a lot, and expect to be frustrated. But if you give it time you can embrace it as long as you don't hold it to the standards of games within the last 15-20 years or so.

[Koboss]

I have no qualms with an 150 hour blind campaign so that sounds fine by me, but it is probably an accurate observation that many people on these forums have been playing this game for years and have a somewhat skewed vision of the game, thanks for all of your responses!

[mpnorman10]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

So a guide is very dependent on how much time you have and are willing to put into what could turn into a 100-150 hr blind game. I think most of the replies in here kind of suffer from what I often see in many older rpgs style gamers saying "oh just jump in you can do eeet!". And from what I have observed over the years pure optimism gets the new players hyped but often they quit rather quickly due to vets having rose tinted glasses and far more time and nostalgia into the game.

Yes, the game without a guide is difficult but most (but not all) experienced players posting say that pretty clearly. My decision to create a guide for new players was not just based upon giving an example party that turns out to be powerful. That is part of it because, IMO, the best introduction to the game is seeing what works well and the limitations of that as well.

Pointing out that an unguided attempt to build a party and play can result in a much longer game, like 100-150 hours is true, but what needs to be emphasized more, IMO, is that it is 100-150 frustrating hours. It is sometimes (not always) possible to muddle through with an inadequate party, but is it fun?

If one word was used to describe the purpose of the beginning player guide I wrote it is "fun". Then, after playing that party for a while or through the game, many or most players in my experience, perhaps when coming back after years of playing other games or right away already know (if I have done my job correctly... I try my best) not only one kind of party that can succeed well, without major frustration, but also, more importantly, the suggested party and surrounding text teaches principles the player may wish to consider when creating their own party designs, including focus and balance, plus what those mean in the context of Wizardry 8.

It is my wish to introduce the game as a battle game. When moving through the Wizardry 8 game, battling enemies is what the player's party does. How well that almost constant battling goes is directly dependent upon the party selection of characters and races as well as exactly how they are focused and developed throughout the game as a solid plan the player makes before even the first battle.

There are mods that make participants physically move faster during battle, but I have personally never seen a reason to use that. If you play for three hours some evening, does it really matter if that consisted of two battles or ten? Much more important is how your guys are doing. Are their weapons hitting more often now than the constant misses when they began? Do their spells connect without fizzling or backfire and does it matter when they do? Is there enough weapon firepower, magic damage or whatever that party focuses upon delivering to get the job done before the enemies kill it?

There are also disciplines like the importance of where the party fights from (nook, inside corner or doorway), using naps only as needed to fully restore mana between battles rather than a full 8 hours, obtaining the capability and using buffs, mixing potions for profit if anyone in the party is skilled in Alchemy, etc. There are both major principles like focus and balance as well as many, many other, minor disciplines.

Some new players would prefer to just try, get crunched, do better in the next try, etc., until they learn the hard way. But there are many, many more new players, IMO, that will encounter the frustration of that, not have fun with the constant lost battles and reloads, and just quit and go play something else. However, I and many other players know there is fun here, tons of fun, once one even begins to understand the major principles and minor disciplines and the creative spark for character and party design is awakened. Thus the guide.

[PointBlank]

I'd say one will be fine completing the game with pretty much any kind of party that looks somehow "sensible". More tuning can get you through faster, but who anyway wants to have less that thousand hours in this game? So I wouldn't take any stress over it. Later, when one finds they really like the game, details will be more in the focus, when gameplay turns more into "playing" the character development side of things.