The guide I'd like to see:

[ferrierj]

Having read many GOOD guides on character/party creation I realized why I'm having so much trouble. The beginning is in a fog.
I have read a summary of what I'm going to be doing BUT I'm not into walkthrus except when completely lost. Here's what I'd like to see before I star t a newbie party.
1. Most important person in the party: Alchemist? The primary path to "unlimited" wealth. And more gold is ALWAYS a force multiplier.
2.What skills you NEED vs what you might like. a. locks and traps? b. Bard ?. Search? Air magic? (for portals).
3. What gets you through to the end. Early-physical damage? Mid-lots of healing? End-lots of diabilty ability?
4. Do you NEED all 4 types of magic? if so, do you NEED all 6 schools?

NEED is defined as- if you don't have it you might not be able to complete the game without incredible skill. ie. If no locks and traps you will have force every lock that doesn't have a key. Good luck on that. Only the Ranger has scouting. If you don't have that you better get the Detect Secrets very quickly.

Race/class STRONGLY recommended - Are there major portions of the game you will have REAL difficulty if you don't have "fill in the race or class" in the party. If you can do it with an entire party of humans, or rogues, then this would be stated. "The game can be finished with ANY party, although unbalanced parties will have major difficulties There are no "sealed" areas open only to parties with ****** or *****."

Thanks for all the assistance. You people have been GREAT.

[dualwield42]

Honestly, I found a lot of the guides out there pretty weak. They seem to favour a particular play style (ie. grinding, power leveling, min/max) I found the information scattered amongst various threads more useful.

Melee combat is king. A Rogue with Bloodlust is ridiculously overpowered. Grab another sword Fighter while you're at it. Dual mace fighter is also viable. For your rogue, I recommending starting as a Fighter, then class changing to Rogue at Level 2. This gives you higher STR and Sword skill to start. +3 STR to 100. There's a debate what your other attribute should be. Some argue DEX to unlock reflection for +To Hit. SPD for more hits and initiative. VIT for tanking (less people recommend this)

Later in the game, it is very handy to have spells that hit all enemies due to the size of the hordes.

I didn't like the sounds of a Priest before, but I like them now. They have enough HP and armour so you can freely neglect VIT. Though limited offensive magic, they have enough and can fill in the gaps while your Bishops and Hybrids advance. Paralyze, Web, Silence, Whirlwind helps you survive the early game. Lightning, Falling Stars, Death Wish later. Since I build my Priest as a hybrid, I go with Human, INT/SPD/STR/DEX in that order, I actually neglect PIE.

Most say Psionic magic is the least necessary, but it's still not a bad choice. Though a Bard does have instruments to cover Insanity and Haste. I'd say a Mage is probably the safest choice. Though, the Alchemist gets Blinding Flash early on, very effective. I'm using a Wiz+Psi Bishop, with 15 Alchemy (so I can get Blinding Flash).

You don't NEED locks & traps, but it helps to have at least some. Alternatively, you can get a high level Divine Trap and Knock Knock spell to trap your way through the game. You can also use your NPC's like the Rogue or Bard one.

Scouting is not necessary, but a Ranger is still a good class without it. Arrows, while lower damage then melee, they hit more often providing your team with consistency. I'm sure we've run into that one bad guy who has 1 HP, but your melee guys keep missing him. With few skills to build, it leaves them a lot of room skill points left over to develop them as a strong caster.

A lot of people swear by the Bard, I'm not a big fan. Especially on Expert, their instruments tend to backfire a lot more. A level 6 Shrill Sound backfiring is absolutely devastating. I just can't take that risk anymore... You can build them as good melee fighters though with some instrument utility.

As far as races
Fighters (includes Rogues, Bard, Gadg) - Lizard/Drac (obviously, but beware the mental resistances...). Hobbits also good. I'm a Mook lover though. Mental resistence and high INT/SEN levels up Close Combat and Artifacts easily. And someone on this forum loves the Giant Swords...

Hybrids - Humans or Hobbits, since hybrids have a lot of stats to pump...

Casters - Elf is obvious choice. Faerie gets an easier start, but the lack of equipment will be noticeable later in the game. I would actually argue the Gnome is not a bad choice. Earth resistance is nice since the Crush spell is a caster's mortal enemy. They are slow... but they do get VIT. You sometimes have to balance initiative vs. dying...

Regarding the 6 realms, you will likely use all your spells, but obviously some realms will be more useful. You probably don't need to specialize in Air just for Portal spells, but that realm does get good spells for Mage and Alc.

[joshuacolyn]

This game doesn't really have a

Originally posted by ferrierj:

Having read many GOOD guides on character/party creation I realized why I'm having so much trouble. The beginning is in a fog.
I have read a summary of what I'm going to be doing BUT I'm not into walkthrus except when completely lost.

No offense, but you are most likely going to get lost...lol This game doesn't really have a go from point A to point B to point C to the end storyline. It is not linear at all. Go where you want. Do what you want. There are a couple of times when; where you finished all of what you had to do and then...nothing, no real clue as to what to do, who to talk too or where to go (several chioices) next until you actually go into an area you have not been in and then go in that area and be decimated by new critters.

Originally posted by ferrierj:

1. Most important person in the party: Alchemist? The primary path to "unlimited" wealth. And more gold is ALWAYS a force multiplier.

The most important person in party is all of them. They all contribute to your survival. There are some team combinations that look and sound like it would be an awesome party, but end up just sucking and are very hard to get going, while other teams rock. It all depends on the person playing the game and on how well they can control the party they created.

My party right now: Drac/Fighter, Human/Samurai, Hobbit/Bard, Hobbit/Gadget, Elf/Bishop and a Fairy/Mage. This has been one of the best parties I ever created, but some people will tell you that my party sucks.

Originally posted by ferrierj:

2.What skills you NEED vs what you might like. a. locks and traps? b. Bard ?. Search? Air magic? (for portals).

That is a big question. here is a link http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/374906-wizardry-8/faqs/55174 that you probably already looked at but I thnk it is very good and covers what you are looking for. All skills have their own pros and cons and can be divied amongst your party. Except Commnication, I have yet to see why points need to be put into this. I have won the game several times and found out all the information that can be gotten and never once put a point in Communication.

Originally posted by ferrierj:

3. What gets you through to the end. Early-physical damage? Mid-lots of healing? End-lots of diabilty ability?

Patience, skill, luck and a lot restarts, reloads and running...lol.

But seriously it really is a combination of all three you stated. You always want to have one or more characters with the ability to heal asap and all through out game either by magic, potions, instrument whatever.

Disable ablities is almost a given since it is what can help you out the most against critters. The quicker you can make them insane, paralyzed, asleep, slowed, armor-melted, afraid and a few more fun things all in three rounds the easier it becomes.

Heavy hitting physical damage is slow in the beginning, even if you pour every point you get into your weapons and Str/Spd. You're going to miss a lot and hit not so hard. It will build up over time. Usually around level 12-15 do you really start to notice your Samurai hitting 6 times a lot more often or the fighter geting three turns in one round. Still these hits are going to be misses more often than not for quite some time. Casting Armormelt and Superman helps with damage.

Originally posted by ferrierj:

4. Do you NEED all 4 types of magic? if so, do you NEED all 6 schools?

This is my preference so do what you will with it. I always use a Bishop and a Mage now. I have tried other parties with different characters, but find this to my liking.

Wizardry and Divinity are the big two obviously. I want to get insane asap for my bishop, so I put decent points into his Psionics and continue to so. Alchemy I put a few points into over time. Bishop being also my main healer. I tend to find that Divine and Mental are the two schools I favor in the beginning. Divine for heal, enchanted blade and bless. Mental for mind stab and insanity.Then swcth to Divine, Water and Air. Water is where the cure cond., stamina and paralyze come into play. Air is cure poison and whirlwind and portals.

I then have my mage take up the slack by focusing on Fire, Earth (armor plate, armor melt whipping rocks and crush) and Air (Sleep, Missle shield, Silence whirliwnd) in the beginning. Then switching to Earth, Water ( to help with curing), Divine.

But after awhile I stop putting points into WIzardry, DIvinty, FIre, Water and Mental and just let it rise naturally from me doing spells while focuing on the other schools I have some what ignored.

Try and always cast Light, Magic Shield, Missle Shield, Enchanted Blade, X-ray, Detect Secrets and Armor Plate at FULL power. It will be in the red for quite some time before turning brown, but these spells don't backfire that I have seen. They only fizzle and you get a point every so often put into their perspective schools when succesful.

They can also be casted while not in battle so can be done anytime. You at least should be backed into a corner or want to be in a safe place (very rare) like a house with back to corner, because you will be resting a lot to get the MP back to recast the spells trying to make them all succesful. It doesnt take long usually by the third or fourth attempt they will be succesful and you probably got a few points. Then you can carry on. OR. Every time you try and rest a battle happens, then it could take all day..lol, But you got a lot of experience out of it. Save after every battle if this happens, before you rest. No matter what your party conditions may be.

In battle Bless, Soul Sheld, Elemental Shield and Body of Stone do not have a backfire either, so you can cast these on full power as well. However, in battle it is not a good idea to fool around with full power if you are in the red. The spell will likely fizzle the first time and you need them to work right now. Especially Soul and Elemental Shield.

I hope some of my ramblings has helped.

[Nuee]

Confusion is one of my favorite spells. Having 12 juggernauts drooling or hitting each other instead of you is a darn handy thing. The confused Don't seem to do much damage to each other but still they are't attacking you as often as you clean their clocks one by one.

[ferrierj]

Great idea. I'll not that one!

[probe]

I suck at developing bishops so I tend to run with a priest instead. The earth realm is pretty good (armor plate and web spells are both nice). Especially web early on can be useful if you don't have sleep, confuse or insanity.

It's preferably best to have two disabling spells in two different realms (ie insanity and web, or web and sleep) which makes for more better options when you start to figure out which types of mobs are resistant to which spell realm (hint; It's often quite obvious depending on the type. Ie bat have air resistance, crabs have decent water resistance IIRC, ants have nice earth resistance) etc.

Don't neglect the mythology skill as it can be quite helpful giving you info on the mobs resistances when it gets a bit high. Another tip; Blinding Flash is also a really nice spell. Especially against different vines and juggernauts.

[Nuee]

A tactic I have considered for Bishops is to create 2. One as my main mage and one as my main cleric. Then pick two magics for each ie wizardry/alchemy and cleric/psionic or something like that though putting a bit of healing on both is good. That way you get the the advantage of the bishops increased durability but haven't split your points among four magics.

[ferrierj]

Currently trying a Bish and an Alchemist.

[copperscales]

a party build i have found for a general game for new players is 2mele classes(fighter/lord/sameri/monk/ninja/valk) a mage (for early game area damage spells like fireball and late game carries like summon elemental) and a ranger or gagateer to support the party and provide some early game ranged and as a not quite as squishy backing to your party for when you get surrounded the rest is up to you its strongly advised to have some kindof healer (psi/priest/bishop) I never liked how slow the bishop was to learn spells but if you can deal with it go for it

[shadowphoenix]

Tactics, Tactics, and more Tactics.

From a combat perspecitve, the most important thing is you. As already mentioned, every party can win. The best party is what fits your play style. On normal difficulty, there is no need to min/max toons to win.

The most important thing to do is learn how the party functions in combat. Your formation vs the enemies. Running up to or away. Backing up against a wall or letting them surround you. Changing formations during combat. Covering allies. Knowing which direction your party members are going to face after casting a spell..(you really dont want that healer turning his/her backside to the enemy to heal that mage in the back now do you?) Same thing for mages casting an aoe to the front when there are enemies to the rear. Instead cast the spell to the rear and the aoe can still hit creatures to the front without leaving your backside exposed. And the list goes on.

Last but not least....if you roll a Valk....make sure someone has smelling salts in their inventory to wake her up when she cheats death.

[joshuacolyn]

Originally posted by Nuee:

Confusion is one of my favorite spells. Having 12 juggernauts drooling or hitting each other instead of you is a darn handy thing. The confused Don't seem to do much damage to each other but still they are't attacking you as often as you clean their clocks one by one.

What spell is Confusion? IDR a confusion. Is the spell itself called Confusion? There's a Concussion but that is a level 7 spell and it only makes them unconscious. Do you mean Insanity?

[Nuee]

Sorry yes I mean Insanity. Lovely spell that. I misspoke. Too many different games through time but same net result... Babble and drool or Attack normal... or clonk your fellow baddy in the head with a mace.

[joshuacolyn]

Originally posted by Nuee:

Sorry yes I mean Insanity. Lovely spell that. I misspoke. Too many different games through time but same net result... Babble and drool or Attack normal... or clonk your fellow baddy in the head with a mace.

Completely understand with the many different games. I keep calling X-ray, "Wizard's Eye", from The Might and Magic Series.

Insanity really is the biggest help of all in the Beginning imo. It is an early highly effective spell as is Freeze Flesh.

[goumindong]

Originally posted by ferrierj:

[...]
1. Most important person in the party: Alchemist? The primary path to "unlimited" wealth. And more gold is ALWAYS a force multiplier.
2.What skills you NEED vs what you might like. a. locks and traps? b. Bard ?. Search? Air magic? (for portals).
3. What gets you through to the end. Early-physical damage? Mid-lots of healing? End-lots of diabilty ability?
4. Do you NEED all 4 types of magic? if so, do you NEED all 6 schools?

[...]
[Race Class Stuff]

OK, so i recently put up a guide that might help you. I feel its decently detailed and should answer what you're looking for.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=649445932

However for specifics

1) There is no most important member of the party or strongest class. Alchemists are strong, but a ranger can do that almost as well. In my opinion, the most important person in a 6 man party is either your primary tank, or your primary healer. So probably the fighter and the healer. If your DPR or status effect casters go down you've not got much issue. But if you run out of a front line and guardian angels then you're very potentially boned since you could cascade failure on deaths

2) There are no necessary skills. There are a few locked doors you can trap yourself behind if you're not able to open them. However you can use the posuers cap, knock picks, and the knock knock spell in order to get around most of them. IIRC the highest lock that will actually block your way is 3 pins. Everything else is optional. Portals are handy but not necessary and any caster can acquire them without points into air magic. Search skill is unncessary you can just eat the 1st round init penalty.

3) Easiest way is physical damage the whole way through since the hardest enemies to deal with will be easyish to take down with physical damage. But in general you will want a mix of methods to kill enemies since various enemy types and groups are most easily killed in different ways.

4) No. You also do not need all 6 realms but you will probably acquire them for most casters because there is no downside to not have options there.

If your entire party does not have stealth then there are only two "necessary" buffs in the game. They are Soul Shield(Priest/Psion) and Element Shield(Mage/Alchemist). They are necessary in order to not get wrecked by casters who are a higher level than you. In conjunction with "Magic Screen"[priest only] you will acquire a very large amount of resistances which will trivialize low level casters and make higher level casters much more managable.

The reason these are "necessary" is because the strongest and most common CC tends to come from Divine, Mental, and Air realms[then water/earth]. And if you get hit by those you can just straight lose.

If your entire party has stealth then there are no necessary buffs

Race/Class combination answer

There is no best race/class combination or best race for a class. Though there are some advantages (Elfs make good casters). The main differences are

1) The speed in which you acquire expert skills
2) Base resistances

Acquring expert skills earlier is better, but not necessary best. Base resistances are very good, but not defining in a way that makes the game easier.

There may be one exception to this that you should probably stay away from Faries. Faries have a lot of weaknesses and they can make the game harder in ways you don't even realize simply because their low carry weight and equipment restrictions can make them very difficult to protect them but also can bring the rest of your party into the weight penalty area.

Another potential exception to this is Mooks. Because Mooks are great at basically everything

In terms of classes i am a fan of for new characters. Fighter(Mooks especially), rogue(only 1), Bard. All of the specialist casters are good.

[Nuee]

On the alchemist... it can be a bishop... you can make a crap ton (the unit is a CT) of money with that skill. While not vital it is extremely useful. I Fear Im bad and camp arnika... buy potions to mix from the cleric... sell them at the bar. Kill any monsters that spawned during that camp cycle. Buy the new spell books I need that the merchants have and various thrown items. Repeat.

Probably counts as cheesy, but its a good way to farm for exp and money at the same time. If you get the right spawn, you can put your dodgers in the front and let them gain dodge while putting the entire party on passive and healing the dodgers as they need it, which also works your heal skills.

[shadowphoenix]

"In conjunction with "Magic Screen"[priest only] you will acquire a very large amount of resistances which will trivialize low level casters and make higher level casters much more managable."

Magic Screen is not priest only. The bard can cast it too once he/she gets mandolin of the magus. It is a great alternative since magic screen costs a lot of sp to cast taking away valuable sp for casting healing or guardian angel.