Want Bishop Advice

[Corsair Carl]

Since many guides say that Bishop is really good, I wanna know what you guys have to say about it.

[BiomageHun]

biogoo will clarify this i'm sure about that :D
meanwhile check his last solo bishop run :D still in progress :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ-SJQWSTHA

[vysionier]

It entirely depends on your party how good bishops are, and there’s many ways to play them. For a new player I’d highly recommend ditching them and getting at least a mage and a priest in your first party for the essential buffs as soon as possible. For parties that are relatively low on magic I’d recommend a Bishop or two if you pick two schools for each one. There’s many options to consider and play around with it :)

[ChaosCVZ]

Many spells have multiple schools that can cast them, like Heal Wounds has Divinity, Alchemy and Psionics. Using a spell increases the skill, but since Bishops have all schools, casting a spell will increase the skill that is currently highest, which can make training awkward at times.

I'd give them (and other casters) a weapon like an extended staff, so they can attack from the back when you're too lazy to cast or when casting isn't needed.

Can also be expensive to buy all the books so they can learn spells.

My current run has 2 Bishops and I would replace them next time mainly because they level so slowly and you don't need all schools in 1 character (unless it's your only caster).

[biogoo]

Bishops are great, but they require some babysitting. Not only do they have to train more skills than other casters, they also have to do it with relatively low governing attributes, which means it takes even longer. For a full party, you cannot really go wrong if you take one of them with you. Worst case, the rest of the party will carry the bishop :)

[Zergs]

I like them, but I also don't mind grinding magic schools. I find Bishops are most powerful in the midgame, when they have a wide array of AOE attack spells across all the realms. In a long battle, I find that Bishops have much more staying power than specialists due to their large mana pools. Late-game mana regen items also offer great value on a Bishop.

They do feel like they don't bring much value in the Monastery and Arnika Road, though.

[Corsair Carl]

Ah, so not for beginners, thanks for the info :)

[vysionier]

Heck, by late game bishops have such a huge spell point pool you’ll see your fairy regenerating sp every round without items! (This is slight exaggeration of course)

[Horpner Sneed]

Bishops can be fine for beginners, but you'll certainly do well to first learn the Mage, Priest, Alchemist and Psionic spell books through playing the fast levelers. Spell picks, already precious, are trickier to use wisely on Bishops, so it will behoove you to know what your choices are. It will also help a lot to know which spells you're going to find easily by the wayside and in shops, and what the timing of those acquisitions is. This is the greatest benefit of being an experience player when playing a Bishop.

But in short: Focus on one or two spell books. Try to save up some spell picks, but do take spells you really want. Use those spells as much as possible, and put your level up points into those schools. So pick spells that you will want and need to cast all the time. Rest often to keep their spell points up. Put a few points into realm skills (earth, air, fire, etc...) to supercharge training (getting to 3 or 5 is very helpful), but you can strictly do without that if you really need to--it'll make their early days more tedious, but it's OK.

You'll need to save a lot of spell picks in order to afford every single level 6 and 7 spells that you cannot buy or find. But there's some good news--a lot of those spells are crap and not worth struggling for 30 hours without your favorite low-level spells to get. So take a fair number of strong lower-level spells! In addition, Bishops lag so far behind in levels by the time the high level spells start to become strong, that you'll have stinted yourself for a bunch of weakish spells you don't cast very much. This is not quite as true the smaller your party gets.

A Bishop is a great character and I've never regretted taking one. Their Artifacts specialty, Turn Undead, Uncurse, and good equipment choices go a long way to justifying their crappy XP progression even when their magic gets slightly stunted.

[HOK1970]

I'm one of those players who favor Bishops over the specialists casters. Most of my parties had 2-3 Bishops (2x Wizardry/Divinity/Psionics, 1xWizardry/Alchemy/Divinity). I'm not saying. that they are better than specialists casters. I've only found a way with my Bishops, where I can better compensate for the lack of strength and accuracy of my melee fighters at the early game.

I justify this with the fact, that the strongest AoE spell at the beginning of the game, Magic Missle, can be quickly casted by a Bishop at a high power level, as a Bishop can build up the required points in the Divine realm more easily.
The same applies to the spell Enchanted Blade, which gives a bonus for melee and ranged fighters of +4 at power level 7 and is a significant improvement.
A bishop builds his realm skills best through regular use of buffs and healing spells, i.e. out of combat spells.

Here is an example of this: After a fight against a few Green Slimes in the monastery, 2 characters were wounded with one point each.
One Bishop casts the spell Heal Wounds at the highest possible power level. Usually the attempt fails, because the spell is highlighted in red. A spell casted on a high power level, but then quickly leads to an increase in Divine Magic.
Since the spell usually fails, the next Bishop can make an attempt to increase.
With Buffs the realm skills can also trained and an Enchanted Blade with power level 7 is not uncommon at level 5 with a bishop. A buff with power level 7 is not only the strongest, it also lasts longer and can still be active after a rest. If there is also a Bard in the group, the regeneration is even faster and all points for the Magic Missle are then replenished for the next fight.
With Magic Missle, you can easily get to Arnika via Arnika Road. By the way, the spell also works well against the androids or the undead in Arnika.

However, I would like to agree with the previous speakers that a bishop is difficult for a beginner to develop. Therefore, my suggestion would be that you take a Mage, a Priest, and instead of an Alchemist, a Bishop with the spellbooks (Wizardry, Alchemy/Divinity).

Here is a suggestion on how you can skill this bishop at the beginning:
Race: Elf
Attributes: Int +10 (65), Speed +10 (55), Piety+10 (65). Max Int+Speed, then Senses, then Vitality.
Starting Skills: Wizardry +5(12), Alchemy +5(12), Fire +5(5)
Skill Progress: Wizardry (up to at least 30), Alchemy (up to 50) and Divine Magic. From level 4 on, you increase Divinity instead of Divine Magic. Fire Magic is increased with the help of regular use of the Light Buff. The book for this can be found pretty much at the beginning of the monastery.

Spells:
Level 1:
Energy Blast: At the beginning, the strongest level 1 attack spell, as the resistance of the monsters to fire is the lowest. A spell requires 6 points in the Realm Skill for it to work accident-free. The dominant spellbook reduces the requirements slightly, but at the beginning of the game only the specialists benefit, due to the bonus in the spellbook. In the beginning, however, you only have 5 points and risk a backfire. After a few few fights, however, you rise in the skill.
Heal Wounds: The spell is mainly there to increase the realm skill Divine, as I described above.
Level 3:
Enchanted Blade+ Magic Missle: Described above.
Level 4:
Blinding Flash: A spell that helps well at the beginning against stronger enemy accumulations and can make them incapable of fighting. The necessary Fire realm Skill points for a strong power level, you have obtained by regular use of the Light Spell.
Level 5: None. You probably won't be able to learn the fireball at level 5 because you don't have the necessary points in Wizardry yet. At Power Level 1, this good attack spell against groups does not bring much, so you can also learn it at level 6.
Level 6: Fireball + Whipping Rocks: Both good attack spells against groups.
Level 7: Chameleon: This buff helps to increase the Alchemy skill even further from 30 points.

I hope this helps you or other new players reading this at the beginning.
I'm curious to see what your Wizardry 8 party looks like and I hope you tell us a little bit about it. Have fun with a great game!

[Zergs]

@HOK - interesting point about the Bishop's advantage in developing realm skills. Particularly using Heal Wounds to train Divine Magic, so that Magic Missile comes online fast. Had never thought of that before. On that point, why the Whipping Rocks pick at level 6? You wouldn't have any points in Earth so this spell is likely to be useless on Arnika road. Plus, the combination of Fireball and Magic Missile should be enough to get you to Arnika.

I'd rather pick Knock Knock, so you can power grind Earth and one of Wiz/Alch when you reach Arnika (or do you plan to buy Knocks from Anna?). After that, Whipping Rocks would be an excellent 3rd attack spell to add.

Separately, all 4 of the spellbooks in the monastery are in Divinity--Light, Stamina, Bless and Divine Trap, and you can Divine Trap grind even within the Monastery. That in turn makes Mind Stab a decent level 1 pick, for 2 reasons--you can easily grind Mental, and Mind Stab doesn't have a spellbook available anywhere in the world. For this reason I strongly favor taking a bishop instead of a priest. The only priest build I like is the str/dex build that later duals to a lord or valkyrie.

[Skleedle]

Don't forget to save-scum starting the game so you can get Terror from the first chest.

Kunar sells Rocks [edit] but not until your party average level is over 11, so it's a toss. (i play with level sensors off, so i get it whenever i get to Gigas)[/edit]

I have also never picked Blinding Flash as a Bishop. It becomes rather pointless after just a few levels. Insanity works much better if you want to incapacitate a random number of opponents.

You should be able to learn L3 spells as soon as you hit L5 if you do just a little training outside of keeping buffs on and casting in combat, so aim for Fireball as your L5 pick.

My bishops usually keep Wizardry highest, so training Knock-Knock raises it and not Alchemy--Alchemy is always behindest, so that spellcasting trains the other classes (eg Healing could train Alch or Div or Psi) whereas mixing potions will train only Alchemy.

[HOK1970]

@Zergs: My mistake, I only wrote which spells I choose when leveling up and not which ones I buy. When I'm in Arnika, I first buy Knock Knock, Identify and Guardian Angel. Later, the Divinity Spells Magic Screen and Rest All will be added.
As far as level 3 spells are generally concerned, the Bishop is often one to 2 levels later than the specialists, as he does not have the bonus on a spellbook.

Divinity is relatively quick to compensate and as long as I don't leave Arnika, I don't need the Magic Screen spell because the monsters in Arnika don't have magical attacks.

The alchemist's bonus, on the other hand, is more difficult to balance, as a value of 50 is desirable to quickly buy all the spells. I usually only manage to do this when I have completed all the tasks in Arnika. Until then, I keep myself afloat with the sale of Hv. Heal at He'li to acquire the most necessary spells. Later, when I had the money, I bought Hv. Heal back.
When increasing Alchemy, it was always the most difficult for me to get to a value of 30, since I only had Heal Wounds (Blinding Flash doesn't really count).
As soon as I first learned the Chameleon Buff, it went relatively quickly to the value 40 and in addition with the mixing of potions cure diseases.

I also only mentioned the development of one bishop. I try to develop the other two bishops (Wizardry/Divinity) in the realm skill of their Wizardry Buff. The Bishop with Missle Shield gets available points (unfortunately I don't have that many available) in Air Magic + Sonic Boom at level 4. The other Bishop also receives Mind Magic + Mind Stab at level 4 (you mentioned that as an idea). Whether the Sonic Boom is useful to me in the fight against Siges and I have enough points available in Air Magic, I still have to test.

I've done intensive grinding more often, but it feels like I've cheated every time afterwards. I would therefore like to avoid this as far as possible.

Your idea of replacing the priest with the bishop may even be better, as the bishop can increase his skills faster with Divinity than with Alchemy.

[HOK1970]

@Skeedle: Kunar sells rocks, but from my memory only on a very late level. Level 9 or even 11 would be too late for this strong spell from my point of view or can you still remember at which level Kunar offered you the spell?

[Skleedle]

oh, yah, you're right, i've been playing with level sensors off for too long to remember how they go

[sentinelbasch]

I love bishops, too, but I agree with the other posters that they really shine for players who are open to doing a bit of grinding. If not, they can definitely work by focusing on (2) spell schools, but in that case I would much rather bring along one of other dedicated magic classes. It just depends on what party setup you are going for.

A few tips I have for using a bishop (this is for those who don't mind or like to grind):

1.) Make sure your party is at least Level 6 before entering Arnika for the first time, and make a separate save before you do so. Once in Arnika, one of the chests at He'Li's bar has a chance of containing a mana stone. Chest contents are set permanently when you enter an area for the first time, so if it's not there, reload your save from before entering Arnika and try again. There are other ways to get mana stones in the game, but this is the earliest and easiest. Alternately, if you import a party, you can also import mana stones in high quantity, and they drop commonly from demon enemies in the endgame of Wiz 7.

With a mana stone, you can use all of the charges except one, resell to a vendor (in Arnika, I've found He'Li to be most cost-effective), then buy it back - it will be fully charged. It helps to have a character focused on the Communication skill to drive that cost down. Have your bishop be the one to use the mana stones - it trains their primary skill Artifacts as well. You could have another character train Artifacts if you prefer, and if so, have them use the mana stones instead, but bear in mind there are some items that can only be identified by a bishop as they require more than 100 Artifacts to identify - however, such items can still be identified with the Identify Item spell.

2.) Between the spell books you find in the Monastery and the ones available for purchase, a Bishop can train all (4) schools and all (6) realms except for Air without having to progress past Arnika. The main focus I use is:

Fire: Light (Found in Monastery)
Water: Stamina (Found in Monastery; you have to start combat artificially with ~ and then cast for it to count for progression)
Earth: Knock Knock
Divine: Enchanted Blade, Magic Screen
Mental: Detect Secrets, Charm, Mindread

There is a chance for you to get the book for Missile Shield from one of the bank vault chests, but it's unlikely you'll get both that and the mana stone.

Once you've been to see Sadok, he offers the book for Missile Shield to train the air realm and Kunar offers the book for Armorplate, another earth realm option (and possibly better to wait on as it's more time-efficient than training Knock Knock).

3.) As mentioned above, the spell school with the highest skill value will get the point for spells shared among multiple skills. The order I do, from highest to lowest, is:

Alchemy > Psionics > Divinity > Wizardry.

To keep Alchemy highest, I use Light. 1 MP per power level so by far the easiest to train quickly.

For Psionics, you can use Mindread, but it's more MP efficient to use Charm. By keeping it higher than Divinity, you will retain the option of training with Charm. You can alternately train Psionics with Detect Secrets, by making sure Psionics stays higher than Wizardry.

The order for Divinity and Wizardry doesn't really matter as both have out of combat buffs that are only available for that school.

4.) Here's the method: stand near He'Li and cast all spells available until your MP is depleted (you may need to go down the hallway in the bar away from He'Li when training Stamina so that you don't cause her to flee when initiating combat). Always cast at the highest power level available - it doesn't matter if it fails or succeeds for progression. Once this is done, use your mana stone, selling back to He'Li and buying back as they reach a single charge left. Then quick save, and quick load. The game will "forget" that you just cast your buffs, and you can cast them again without delay, even if your turn counter for the buff is still the same. You can do it without the quick save/quick load method, but it's much slower, as you will have to wait until the turn counter for the buff goes down before casting again, otherwise it won't count toward skill progression.

Using the above method, I am usually able to train a bishop to 90 in all schools and realms within a few hours.

For those looking for less of a grind, you could do the above method and train everything to between 60-75, which would likely take only an hour or two. The grind between 75 to 90 is by far the largest (longer than it takes to get to 75).

Or, you could use this method for just a short bit to give you a leg up on some of the skills. If so, I'd recommend training fire with the Light spell. At only 7 MP at PL 7, the fire realm skill goes up so quickly it's almost criminal. As a bishop, if you're following the school order above, this will also train Alchemy relatively quickly, giving you access to advanced potion mixing early on, which will help with the cost of buying all the bishop's spell books, for very little time invested.

5.) It's unlikely you'll run out of money with the mana stone buying/reselling if you have a character dedicated to the Communication skill and you use He'Li, but if you do, you should have enough Alchemy quickly to purchase light and medium heal potions and merge them into heavy heal potions to sell, and both He'Li and Braffit sell these potions. Casting Light is so quick to train Alchemy that it won't be long until you can make the advanced potions either.

6.) If your bishop is female, you can equip the Necklaces of Endurance that you find in Arnika to quickly offset the stamina usage of the spells. If not, you'll need to routinely cast Stamina with this method. You may want to train the water realm with Stamina using the above method early enough to where you can cast Stamina at PL7 with no penalty, so there is no delay in your stamina recovery.