Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
That party is a melee oriented party, but the Mage within that party is not recommended to do melee, unless perhaps it is via a summoned Elemental. The reason for a Mage in that party is primarily for three spells, Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield and Element Shield. These are part of the Power Level 7 buffs and protections that party benefits greatly from and the Mage gets these spells early (potentially), at level 3 for the first two and level 8 for the third.
Alternatives exist for casting those spells, namely the Samurai and Bishop, but they do not develop as quickly.
The key thing about the development of any character in this game is the fact that, in Wizardry 8, skills increase through the act of using them. In the case of the Mage, that means spells. On the offensive side of the character this means casting spells as close to every round as possible. If you followed the guide then the only weapon equipped is the sling, which becomes valuable later in the game, with excellent ammo and penetratration via the Eagle Eye expert skill to asssist with disabling even very powerful foes. But until then and most of the time the sling is merely a "checkdown" for the Mage to use when not casting a spell.
Defensively, the most important thing is for the Mage to not come into melee contact with the enemy. That means orientating your party against those foes so the Mage in back is not in melee range unless the enemy has extended range, which most foes do not have. This means fighting from nooks rather than allowing the party to fight out in the open. It takes some skill to make this happen, and sometimes it is not possible, but that should be rare.
The next thing for the Mage defensively is its own Missile Shield that it casts. This should be cast often and at as high a power level as possible. Casting it in the orange is a good balance between increasing it through use and successfully casting it. A lot of the early foes, Higardi in particular, are quite good at throwing, such as knives. It is the MIssile Shield that protects the Mage in the back from being hit too many times for too much damage.
I did, in another post mention the spell Guardian Angel, which can often be purchased in Arnika. That is an artificial boost of protection against damage, but unless the principles above are applied it will not make much difference.
Back to offense, in the early and early middle game the Mage is the damage king. After a few levels you should never see the Mage doing merely 4-6 damage against a single enemy, but rather several enemies and typically more damage than 6. Are spells being cast in every round, from the very beginning of the game? By practicing those spells in every round, the Wizardry and Realm skills rise rapidly. In the early game if you use only a sling and start with 25 stones, then after 3 or 4 battles you should still have 20+ stones left, because in almost every round a spell is cast (and Enchanted Blade and Missile Shield in between every battle after a short nap).
I hope this helps. You can get those spells in a party via a Samurai or a Bishop, and many players prefer a slow-developing but widely capable Bishop. The Mage was recommended by me because it develops very quickly (if spells are constantly used) to bring aid and enhancement to that party early, when it is most needed.
It is my bad if it does not work out for you in following my recommendation. I will assume the fault is in the recommendation unless proven otherwise, so I am very interested in hearing what you have to say regarding the above points.
I do stand by the recommendation, but only if the above points, which may not have been stated strongly enough in the guide, are followed. You should definitely not be having the Faerie Mage die. If it happens at all it should be rare. If the above points were not clear from the recommendation guide, please let me know what was not so I can improve the writing and make the necessary clarifications. I did give the Hobbit as an alternative in the recommendation for the Mage, but other races (with more hit points) are possible, as well as a greater emphasis on Vitality (which adds hit points) that some players prefer for the mage.
HPs are certainly an issue for a Fairie Mage, Mage has the lowest HPs of all classes given a certain level and VIT, and the Fairie has the lowest VIT.
I would answer your question from my experience with a clear "no". The mage is by far the biggest DD in W8 until L12-15, when melee takes over and high monster resistances become common.
A determination to fight them anyway is admirable, but may result in several deaths even in a successful battle. A new player finds out about these by running into them. Some tough battles, such as Gregor, are not easily avoided.
1 mage
1 priest
1 alchemist
1 psionic
Once I got to Rapax Castle, and crushed 100’s of them, I quit the game. It was boring at that point.
I never use the fairy as melee. She is in the back always where she is still the target of every ranged shooter and caster. I figured she wouldn't be of much use just casting defensive spells and drinking potions all the time.
CeterumCensio- here are some stats: Just made level 9
Int-100
speed-100
senses-68
I raised no other attributes. Power cast-6 and snake speed-4
Wizardry is at 70
fire is 44
earth is 21
others are single digits
ranged combat- 51
throw and sling- 38
I must be doing something wrong but I don't know what. Thanks for the help.
Yes I know you are right. My problem is that I am a complusive finisher. I hate leaving anything undone. When I leave a place I like to know that it is completely finished, every part and every battle. An unfinished job is to me a job not done at all. I am sure I am neurotic but that's the way it is. Besides there may have been some goodies I really needed in that room. (There usually isn't) But the thought would haunt me if I didn't find out.
From what I see I think you have 2 problems:
- the mage is still at 30 VIT, this makes her glassy. This problem won't go away unless you do something about it. In the meantime, buff her with Guardian Angel and Superman, whenever possible.
- the relation between magic realms and ranged combat doesn't fit for a mage. In the early game phase, I really try to deplete all my mana in or after each battle, then camp and refill. The mage has access to 5 status spells which I cast immediately after camping (Light, Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield, Shadow Hound and X-Ray). It doesn't cost much time, compared to the typical Arnika grind, but pays off greatly. I buy Terror, Detect Secrets, Magic Missile, KnockKnock in Arnika. Personally, I always go for some more PIE to be able to cast one more spell in battle.
Keep in mind the chars should fit to your own style of playing. If your "natural" style of playing is more on the physical side, take a Samurai instead. He does decent damage with a bushido blade, easily available from the Raven Rapax, and he can use slings, bows, crossbows and some thrown weapons, among them the legendary Boomerang Shuriken. But even for him, if you constantly use just those status spells only, and an occasional Web, Whipping Rock, Fireball or Noxious Fumes, you will see how his magic will unfold.
For a mage, I would let her constantly cast damage spells and mage her a bit more stable against ranged attacks and enemy AoE.
About SPD: Has also been a topic discussed large and wide since day one when the game was released. The only reason to max SPD (and SEN, which you also mentioned) is to get the Elemental Shield up and running before the enemy starts casting his magic. But, and this is only my personal opinion, the price tag is too high. For offensive magic it is not that important when it is cast. There are examples, where it really helps, but there are also examples, where a later cast would be more helpful. Having access to Haste spell via Psionic, Monk, Bishop or Bard makes it completely obsolete except in the first round of each combat. There are even Potions and scrolls available.
It is not my intention to write/talk you out of SPD. If it fits to your playing style, keep using it.
Have fun.
Edit: Here, just for comparison, the equivalent figures from a female fairie mage from one of my latest Perfect Parties, also L10:
INT 100, PC 7 (absolutely comparable to yours)
VIT 58 (translated into 35 HP)
SPD 91 (this was a test for a SPD mage, no points put into PIE)
SEN 49
Wizardry 98, including Mage bonus
Fire 65, Water 41, Air 43, Earth 41, Mental 18, Divine 28. This was all completely grind-free.
In total she had 14 spells.
Close Combat 16, Staff 31, Ranged 2, T&S 0.
She had 133 kills and 0 deaths at that time (Expert Ironman)
I hope this helps you a bit.
The point for playing a Faerie Mage is to arrange for it to not be hit rather than focus on making its pathetic hit points a little higher. If the Faerie Mage becomes subject to melee it will not take long, even with double the hit points.
The same goes for range and, from what you indicated, Frobisher, the lack of Missile Shield is central to your problems. Casting spells every turn and continually replenishing mana between battles and recasting all of the buffs you have (starting with the basic four: Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield, Magic Screen and Armor Plate) every time you replenish as soon as you have those spells is a key part of the game.
Just like having one character do all of the Locks and Traps (for the experience and skill increases) and using Alchemy early and often to make potions (for money and Alchemy skill gain) there are several aspects of Wizardry 8 that might seem a bit repetitive to a new player.
The Sling that I recommend is weak at first (as CC also indicated), but even focusing totally on spells for the Mage it does get some use and rapid increases through occasional use, given the recommended attributes.
Having two characters fast, so one can do Soul Shield and one does Element Shield is a recommendation because of things like Psi Sharks and Cave Spiders that can take an entire party out just like that because their disabling comes before the Element Shield (or Soul Shield in the case of the sharks) is in place. In my experience it makes progress more deliberate and certain in the late midgame, rather than usually being easy but still possible for the entire party to be taken out by early disabling of the party. Element Shield (in addition to Power Level 7 Magic Screen) does not necessarily prevent, for example, every character from being webbed by high level Cave Spiders, but it makes that webbing less likely and considerably shorter in duration.
Expert players can get by with less protections in a number of ways, but it is my intention to give a newer player every protection they can reasonably get. Diverging from the Faerie race or putting points in Vitality can improve the survivability of the Mage in marginal cases, but the best strategy, IMO, for a new player is to adopt practices that avoid the Mage being hit as much as is possible, and possibly giving it some extra protection with a Guardian Angel cast in some cases.
Because of in-game items and spells that directly increase Speed, Speed is mainly needed in character development, for many parties, for just this purpose (getting those shields up fast) or not at all.
Recently I have begun studying the use of the Samurai in depth and actually have initiated a test involving the use of a Samurai instead of Mage in the recommended party (the same as CC suggests above), as an alternative. The main weakness of that is that the ability to cast Element Shield is delayed by four levels to Level 12 (at the earliest), and it may take a couple levels after that before it can be cast well. We will see. That test also includes a recommendation from CC to let Shield Skill increase on its own for front line users. I will report what I find.
In summary, Frobisher, since you were careful to keep the Mage out of melee range of non-extended-reach enemies, the lack of a regular Missile Shield and not getting all of the realms up in skill with constant casting were the main issues. The Missile Shield problem can be fixed immediately with the party you have. The other spell casting problem may take some time or require a restart. If you do restart, please do not feel tied to my recommended party or a version of it, now that you have some experience, but you are welcome to give it another go and I promise to listen carefully to whatever your experiences are and will use those to make it better for other players who come after you. My respect is high for both you as a player as well as for the fact you write about your experiences and share them with others.
Pay attention to the type of spell as well. Some, instead of one foe, hit a cone of foes in front of you, and others have an area of effect where you put a post (like Fireball). This can greatly increase the amount of damage per spell, softening up all of your foes that will be finished off by your melee guys (or a subsequent spell).
Consider, given your situation, putting some more points in realm skills at level-up that are very low, to accelerate those.
Element Shield is an Earth Ream spell that the Mage can get as a spell pick anytime they are both Level 8 and have a Wizardry Skill of 45 (36 before the bonus). The spell is also sold by some vendors as you proceed through the game.
Due to a bug in the skill development system, fizzled and backfired spells give faster skill increases than successful casts. So a fizzled spell is not wasted. Ranged and melee is the other way round, where hits give faster skill increases than non-penetrations and misses.
The secret of a successful mage is cast-cast-cast.
I wish your party all the good luck. From the information available, it is not clear why you experience 4 damage with a Energy Blast cast at PL5 or higher.
On which difficulty level do you play btw?
Spells that were strong early (energy blast, fireball) are not going to work forever. A mage has to switch to other realms to be able to do propper damage, as fire doesnt offer any alternatives until nuclear blast. Higher level enemies require higher level spells, and moreso spells from different realms to counter their resistances. Water and earth are the bread and butter mid-game realms, but it wont help if you start training them too late, as you will be stuck in a catch-up game. Air is often neglected but is good to have all game long as an alternative mana source, even if the damage wont be that great as from other realms. And later on, mental and divine are also relevant. Piety helps a lot with faster training.
Also, fairies are the worst mages later on, they cannot equip mana regen robes. :(
For your mage there is a general recommendation to build all realms for the mage by casting whenever possible, in and out of combat
For the attribute preference, everyone agrees on INT for Powercast. For the second attribute you got 3 different opinions:
SPD to get the Elemental Shield up asap
PIE to increase skills as fast as possible
VIT for a bit more stability
The answer to you is adapt to your playstyle.
Actually that is a complete non-issue, IMO, if there is no more than one Faerie in the party, because there is always one Amulet of Nebdar available in the game. that does essentially the same thing.
The Faerie Cap is also nice if you happen to come across one.
In my experience Faerie Mages just get more powerful throughout the game. Hobbit and Faerie are the two I usually play and both seem about equally powerful throughout the game. Because of all the Faerie special items in the game it seems appropriate to introduce new players into the use of one. I plan to revise the wording in my recommendation for new players a bit, however, and, as always, welcome everyone's feedback.