Informal Bards and Gadgeteers?

[kimkrichbaum]

Another post I saw indicated that you do not have to be a bard to use instruments, or a gadgeteer to put together and use gadgets. If you have the requisite Engineering and Music skills. If this is true, I am thinking I could start a character as a Bard or Gadgeteer, switch their class at level 2 , then just keep improving their Music or Engineering skill, and effectively have a dual class character. Has anyone tried this or know if it works?
Thanks!

[ZombieKidzRule!]

From what I have seen, your music and engineering skills won't raise unless you are actually currently adventuring as a Bard or Gadgeteer. Similar to how you can still casts spells if your mage becomes a rogue, but you won't increase wizardry by casting spells. So you can continue to use bard instruments or gadgeteer devices as long as you have the requisite bard/gadgeteer level and music/engineering skill, but you won't increase that skill anymore until you switch back to a bard or a gadgeteer. Certain instruments and devices require a specific class level and skill level.

The levels typically go something like 1/3/5/8/11/14/18 for requirements, but you can always look at an item list to confirm. So, you could raise your bard or gadgeteer level and music/engineering skill level to a point where you can use what you want and then switch to something else.

But you should also remember that the minimum requirements also only allows you to cast/use the item at the lowest level. You need to have a higher class level and skill beyond the minimum to use the items at a higher casting level, just like a regular spell.

I also don't know if you can actually merge items after you switch from being a gadgeteer. I still need to experiment wtih that.

Hope that helps.

[ZombieKidzRule!]

I wanted to add to this after more recent experience. I am playing a solo character and I was trying to build bard levels for future use of music. However, I quickly realized that I would be better off using Gadgeteer levels or bishop levels instead.

If you look at what music instruments are available, the spells aren't that great. They are ok if your bard is one of many in the party. But music requires a lot of stamina and the lower level instruments aren't great for attacking or they require a higher bard level and music skill to cast at a higher level.

For instance, my ranger who has the necessary 3 bard levels to use the Pipes of Piercing only casts at level one and does very little damage compared to the stamina that is used.

Plus, all the times you use music in a class other than bard doesn't count toward raising music.

Now, if you are planning to be able to raise a bard to level 25 or so and still switch to another class, it might be useful. But overall, probably not.

[shadowphoenix]

Hello,

The most common bard multiclass build is bard 18 then change the rogue. I also recommend checking out my melee bard thread. It is my fav and can outdamage most melee builds.

Gadgeteers have no real benefit class changing unless you want to change to ranger late game and use bows/xbows for the rangers crit bonus. Using him to create the triple shot xbow and then class changing him to a ranger late game is rather nasty.

[dualwield42]

Why Bard -> Rogue and not Bard -> Fighter? You lose backstab bonuses for being a low level Rogue.. Plus no stealth means pain... Good chance you're using a Mook, so Giant's Sword will come in handy...

[shadowphoenix]

Secondary skills and attributes line up better with the rogue making it an easy transition. If you are looking for just raw damage then there is no point in even having the bard to begin with.

[dualwield42]

I treat Fighters and Rogues the same pretty much. STR/DEX being the priority and along with Sword/CC.

L&T bonus not a big deal, since Fighter can wear the Poisner Cap to negate the 25%...

Or just staying as a Bard isn't a bad idea either. They can use Ring of the Roads to catch up on damage, and they get better equipment than Rogues...

Though on your earlier comment, Gadgeteer -> Ranger does sound interesting... Since Bow > Omnigun for a good portion of the game. Though, debatable whether the switch is worth it late in the game once you get good instruments and a powerful Omnigun...

[shadowphoenix]

If you read my older melee bard thread, I explained that the bard can outdamge most fighter builds while wearing bardic equipment (2 ring of the roades, etc) and bloodlust. The idea behind class changing to rogue is to duel wield and to capitalize on other skills including L&T. While one can easlily change to a fighter or any other class, the idea behind the bard is to be that toon that rounds out a party. The bard, unlike the gadgeteer, can easily be built to fill just about any role whether it is magic, range, melee, or a combination of the three. So, yes..one can easily use Poseaur cap to deal with L&T or you can use the bard/rogue to do that for you. Either way..the choice is up to you and how you want your party to function.