AMD GPU users

[Freakshow]

So.... are there plans to add frame gen for AMD GPUs? I get a message that I need a 4060 or something just to enable DX12, let alone frame gen. AMD supports frame gen and it's able to easily be implemented into any game, as is anything FSR3.

You should really take off the DX12 block for all AMD GPUs, add FSR3 + AMD frame gen and just let us use DX12. If the performance is terrible, it is on us. Sure, people will be using max graphics on a 6500XT and complain about it, but that's on them.

I have a 6700XT 12GB. I KNOW that it's not a ray tracing beast by any means. I know it's not even considered "mid-tier" in the whole picture of all the GPUs available now.

But if I want to enable all the graphical options to see what it looks like and get 25fps while doing so, that's my choice. I'm not going to complain about it.

Imagine if S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 did the same thing. Made it to where only Nvidia 4060 Supers or whatever and higher could play the game and use frame gen lol. Think I'd be able to run it in 1440p like I do now at max settings? I get like 70-80fps with frame gen. Without it, I'd have to run 1920x1080 on my 27" 2560x1440 144hz HDR monitor and that would just look horrible. 1080p on a 24" is already bad enough (in my experience, because I can see every pixel).

Ah, anyways, the point is... just let us have our DX12. Besides, AMD does better with DX12, anyways. DX12 and Vulkan are AMD's territory. Vulkan is great, but like in RDR2, DX12 gets 10fps higher with my 6700XT 12GB than Vulkan now. I think Vulkan used to be the better performer, but maybe that was back on my RX480 8GB.

The point remains... just let us TRY it out.

[Gietmex]

I understand having upscalers to get actual extra frames, but why would you want frame gen in a pvp game? Frame gen artificially increases input lag, because although the image look smoother, and the little fps counter is higher, you are actually just playing according to the real/active frames. Heck not just pvp games but any games, frame gen is bad. IF you think otherwise it's because you are having a placebo effect.

In other words, Frame gen is ultimately just a trick to make it looks like you are playing 60 fps while in reality you are playing in between 25~40fps. (it does have a bonus of reducing screen tare due to low fps though, I can give you that win)

[Outplayed and Destroyed]

You need 4070, they just sold it by Huang.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by Gietmex:

I understand having upscalers to get actual extra frames, but why would you want frame gen in a pvp game? Frame gen artificially increases input lag, because although the image look smoother, and the little fps counter is higher, you are actually just playing according to the real/active frames. Heck not just pvp games but any games, frame gen is bad. IF you think otherwise it's because you are having a placebo effect.

In other words, Frame gen is ultimately just a trick to make it looks like you are playing 60 fps while in reality you are playing in between 25~40fps. (it does have a bonus of reducing screen tare due to low fps though, I can give you that win)

It depends on the game AND the fps you're already getting. For example, frame gen in STALKER 2 is terrible. But in other games when you're getting 60-70fps and enable frame gen, you don't get that extremely stupid lag.

In 1440p, all max settings, DX11, I was getting excellent framerates. I'm just assuming that DX12 is addings extra features like ray tracing to where my 6700XT would need to enable frame gen.

I understand frame gen isn't the greatest right now, but it's constantly improving. Just like upscaling. And it's something we're all gonna have to get used to. It will keep getting better and become necessary to run half the games out this year. More than half.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by Outplayed and Destroyed:

You need 4070, they just sold it by Huang.

What's the deal with needing a 4070 to enable DX12, though? What does the RTX3000 series and lower or any AMD card not have that can't support whatever feature(s) there are with DX12? That's what I'm wondering. I feel like I COULD enable it and play it without issues, it's just that there is probably some form of ray tracing/path tracing that would perform horribly so instead of just letting people see what's up...

They think they are stopping any complaining about "poor performance" from people using GPUs that can't handle a certain setting or two.

I mean, I'd LIKE to have Smart Access Memory working and DX11 doesn't support that. At least with DX12, there's a good chance I could gain 5-10% more fps at least with all settings remaining the same.

I dunno... it's just stupid because they aren't explaining WHY. At least not that I've seen.

[Gietmex]

Originally posted by Freakshow:

Originally posted by Outplayed and Destroyed:

You need 4070, they just sold it by Huang.

What's the deal with needing a 4070 to enable DX12, though? What does the RTX3000 series and lower or any AMD card not have that can't support whatever feature(s) there are with DX12? That's what I'm wondering. I feel like I COULD enable it and play it without issues, it's just that there is probably some form of ray tracing/path tracing that would perform horribly so instead of just letting people see what's up...

They think they are stopping any complaining about "poor performance" from people using GPUs that can't handle a certain setting or two.

I mean, I'd LIKE to have Smart Access Memory working and DX11 doesn't support that. At least with DX12, there's a good chance I could gain 5-10% more fps at least with all settings remaining the same.

I dunno... it's just stupid because they aren't explaining WHY. At least not that I've seen.

The reason why they are not allowing it, is because of what DX12 does. DX12 is supposed to give windows more control of your gpu, allowing your gpu to perform better for the game in question. Latest gpu are test to make sure no instability is showing up. But this Companies also are not going back to test DX12 on their older gpus or budget lineup, so they can't predict what will happen there. In some cases you pc might get multiple game crashes, or lower fps instead of higher. In worst case your gpu could get fried. As a developer if you want to save time and mnoney from costumer support and save your less tech savy costumer from headaches because the game don't want to run with their system, is just best to not enable it. That's probably what happened here.

[Gietmex]

Originally posted by Freakshow:

Originally posted by Gietmex:

I understand having upscalers to get actual extra frames, but why would you want frame gen in a pvp game? Frame gen artificially increases input lag, because although the image look smoother, and the little fps counter is higher, you are actually just playing according to the real/active frames. Heck not just pvp games but any games, frame gen is bad. IF you think otherwise it's because you are having a placebo effect.

In other words, Frame gen is ultimately just a trick to make it looks like you are playing 60 fps while in reality you are playing in between 25~40fps. (it does have a bonus of reducing screen tare due to low fps though, I can give you that win)

It depends on the game AND the fps you're already getting. For example, frame gen in STALKER 2 is terrible. But in other games when you're getting 60-70fps and enable frame gen, you don't get that extremely stupid lag.

In 1440p, all max settings, DX11, I was getting excellent framerates. I'm just assuming that DX12 is addings extra features like ray tracing to where my 6700XT would need to enable frame gen.

I understand frame gen isn't the greatest right now, but it's constantly improving. Just like upscaling. And it's something we're all gonna have to get used to. It will keep getting better and become necessary to run half the games out this year. More than half.

The lag you are referencing sounds more like it isn't directly coming from frame gen, frame gen will always introduce input lag, but it wont be crazy lag unless your gpu is running out of vram space (which is whats happening with lots of people on the beta test for monster hunter wilds).

The issue with the input lag that comes with frame gen, is in it's nature. It's introducing Fake frames, you will be reacting either to a fake frame or real frame, and they are going so fast you can hardly tell which one is fake or not. If you are trying to snipe from far away or time a counter from a melee attack that consist of 5 to 30 frames of actions, its going to make it harder.

I honestly see a realm where frame gen can work well, but I will suggest against using it on shooters or fighting games.


note, if you had high frames before enabling frame gen, it will be hard to notice any lag, but that goes back to the conversation of you actually playing at the base frame, while seen a higher number with smoother images because of frame gen

[Freakshow]

STALKER 2 has that laggy mouse feel without frame gen to begin with. As in, despite the latency numbers, it feels more sluggish. This is documented by YouTubers playing the game, too. Frame gen just makes ti really bad.

But I can't recall the handful of games I've used it in with nothing but positive experiences. Well, as far as hand-eye response time goes. There's always the issue of FSR3 and AMD Frame Gen never matching Nvidia's quality, so that's a negative.

You already said at the start exactly what I said. That's all I'm saying PLUS some games just feel better with it than other games, despite the fact that it doesn't LOWER latency. It's just that sometimes, it only raises by a few ms and you don't really feel it. Especially if you're starting at 60-80fps? Then, yeah, frame gen adds latency, but you practically end up back where you started.

STILL though, and look, I'm trying to be nice.

I'm wondering why I can't enable DX12 with an AMD card. Nor can some Nvidia 4000 series owners and anything in the RTX3000 series and less.

Do you know what the mean reason is? It's a sweet looking game and plays great at max settings, 1440p, no FSR, Cinematic settings with a 6700XT. DX12 with the same settings SHOULD give me more fps if anything, since I'll be able to utilize Smart Access Memory for one. Again, if there's some extra ray tracing stuff that makes it perform terribly on cards less than "required" for DX12, so be it. I still want to use it.

[DDENN]

wrong, u need 4070 ti super to enable dx12 since below that are 12GB vram and lower

[Freakshow]

You have a source for that? What's causing the VRAM usage? Are you implying that it couldn't be ran at 1920x1080 in DX12?

Why is everyone in here some kind of "wannabe PC know-it-all"?

I guarantee you that there's literally nothing hardware wise stopping anything less than a 4070 Ti Super from running DX12. Not the RTX 3000/2000 series and not RDNA 2 and 3.

So, why is everyone either completely going off topic OR just making things up?

I mean, have you seen how much RAM AMD uses? Isn't the 7600XT coming with 16GB VRAM? And the higher tier cards are well into the 20+GB VRAM. It's not VRAM, man.

This is just proof that people lie on Steam all the time. Everyone has a 5080, but somehow, no one has anything better than a 4070 Ti Super so that they can report what changes.

Internet: I have a 14900k and a 5080.
IRL: I live in mom's basement and have an Intel 10100 and a 1660 Ti.

[DDENN]

Originally posted by Freakshow:

You have a source for that? What's causing the VRAM usage? Are you implying that it couldn't be ran at 1920x1080 in DX12?

Why is everyone in here some kind of "wannabe PC know-it-all"?

I guarantee you that there's literally nothing hardware wise stopping anything less than a 4070 Ti Super from running DX12. Not the RTX 3000/2000 series and not RDNA 2 and 3.

So, why is everyone either completely going off topic OR just making things up?

I mean, have you seen how much RAM AMD uses? Isn't the 7600XT coming with 16GB VRAM? And the higher tier cards are well into the 20+GB VRAM. It's not VRAM, man.

This is just proof that people lie on Steam all the time. Everyone has a 5080, but somehow, no one has anything better than a 4070 Ti Super so that they can report what changes.

Internet: I have a 14900k and a 5080.
IRL: I live in mom's basement and have an Intel 10100 and a 1660 Ti.

its said in the graphic option in launcher. even my 4070 and my friend 4070 ti cant use dx12. option is greyed out since we only have 12GB vram
only 4070 ti super and above can

[Gietmex]

Originally posted by Freakshow:

You have a source for that? What's causing the VRAM usage? Are you implying that it couldn't be ran at 1920x1080 in DX12?

Why is everyone in here some kind of "wannabe PC know-it-all"?

I guarantee you that there's literally nothing hardware wise stopping anything less than a 4070 Ti Super from running DX12. Not the RTX 3000/2000 series and not RDNA 2 and 3.

So, why is everyone either completely going off topic OR just making things up?

I mean, have you seen how much RAM AMD uses? Isn't the 7600XT coming with 16GB VRAM? And the higher tier cards are well into the 20+GB VRAM. It's not VRAM, man.

This is just proof that people lie on Steam all the time. Everyone has a 5080, but somehow, no one has anything better than a 4070 Ti Super so that they can report what changes.

Internet: I have a 14900k and a 5080.
IRL: I live in mom's basement and have an Intel 10100 and a 1660 Ti.

Not sure if you are referring to me, I'm not a know it all, I just know what I know.

there have been issues tied with DX12 an instability, nothing major mostly range between worst performance or random crashes. Is normal for games to limit new tech to new Tested only board. It's also normal for companies to not go back and test new versions of DX on older hardware. I didn't mention vram, with this.

As for Frame gen, I did mentioned vram, because having frame gen enabled with take anywhere from 50mb to 2.5gb of vram while running. This is something that I have observed along with other youtubers mainly testing with monster hunter wilds closed beta.
Also please don't take it personal when I talk about my dislike for Frame gen. I personally think it just a trap to get people who don't know better into the new series of gpu, just because fps number is higher. Although frame gen is more sophisticated, it really isn't much different than having blur activated back in the old days to make the games look nicer. Because 100% is impossible for frame gen to make a game faster.