Kernel Level Access AntiCheat is Really Bad

[Bu3(SW)]

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

[RWND]

Originally posted by CyanCatMan:

Originally posted by RWND:

We already know, and we don't care.

As a CS player, you can install malware in my BIOS for all I care as long as there are no cheaters.

Whose we? And a CS player? You mean the game that shot it's own anti-cheat and moderation system in the foot just to slap a 2 on the end of it?

Yes, I mean that game, and "we" is the entire CS community that says this.

Everything you said about "slapping a 2 in front yadayada" is completely wrong, educate yourself before speaking on things you have no clue about, you're making yourself look like a fool.

[Ianis]

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

Originally posted by Extzy:

Imagine thinking your information is important. You're a regular insignificant person. Oh no my full address, hentai collection and dog's birthday is compromised! Ain't no hacker that can breach security like that will do anything with your information. They're looking for big names or being white hat, not scam grandma's little boy.

You need to stop watching hacker movies that have you convinced hackers only target high profile celebrities and politicians. Hackers target everyone they can. Hacking even a nobody gives them the ability to build a distributed network, conceal their identity and to steal financial data for identity theft.

Bro really thinks they will steal the identity of a nobody pushing an agenda straight out of bumerica

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Sand:

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

You need to stop watching hacker movies that have you convinced hackers only target high profile celebrities and politicians. Hackers target everyone they can. Hacking even a nobody gives them the ability to build a distributed network, conceal their identity and to steal financial data for identity theft.

Bro really thinks they will steal the identity of a nobody pushing an agenda straight out of bumerica

I do not think you understand what hacking is or how it works or the motivation hackers have.
According to the FBI hackers are indiscriminate and mostly hack targets of opportunity https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2023_IC3Report.pdf?trk=public_post_comment-text

Your ignorance is contagious and your wrong perspective spreading puts more people in danger.

[Tsuru]

Guys theres a simple solution to how we can avoid kernal level anti cheat. Im surprised no one has started working on it yet.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Tsuru:

Guys theres a simple solution to how we can avoid kernal level anti cheat. I'm surprised no one has started working on it yet.

Yes, just refuse it. There already exists very good reliable anticheats that do not rely on kernel level access. Also an anticheat being kernel level deos not even make it so it is inherently better than a traditional anticheat as many are actually really bad at detecting and stopping cheaters.

[MindTrix]

Originally posted by CyanCatMan:

Originally posted by MindTrix:

If you don't like it don't install it. We are all adults and can make choices for ourselves. A bunch of geeks trying to say this is bad or dangerous can F right off. You have a choice what to install or not to install on your own PC not mine. So nobody cares about your facts or opinions. Good day

Dang bro can't read...

I think your the one who can't comprehend logic. IF YOU DON"T LIKE THE ANTI CHEAT DON"T BUY THE GAME. Is that simple enough for you?

[Donttouchmyhohos]

Originally posted by InsightKnight:

Brother you have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of anti-cheats are Kernel level and this argument has been beaten to death since Valorants release. Stop watching youtube videos for factual data its insulting.

Also just so you know Microsoft has had NSA built in backdoors since Windows 95. No one cared and now they phone tap everything. Get over it and move on.

The majority of anti-cheats are not kernel level. You are high. Backdoors have absolutely nothing to do with kernel level intrustion either and are not even in the same galaxy for capabilities. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to kernel level software. Here is a fact, I work in cyber security. There is zero reason to run kernel level anti cheat. Anti cheats for game companies dont get a big budget, it produces no income to cater to that. It is a sunk cost division that produces 0$ So big wig CEOs and higher ups dont put enough money into those divisions to be effective and go with the least required amount to keep enough people happy.

Companies now a days eat the hacks and have insurance cover as the insurance cost comes out to be cheaper than paying people to protect your assets.

[Battlew]

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

i Agree with you. And i really appreciate your practice example about Wife.
ps: i trust chinese government and china in general more than USA government n usa in general. So i ask you please, keep politic away from Informatics discussion.

[Battlew]

Originally posted by Donttouchmyhohos:

Originally posted by InsightKnight:

Brother you have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of anti-cheats are Kernel level and this argument has been beaten to death since Valorants release. Stop watching youtube videos for factual data its insulting.

Also just so you know Microsoft has had NSA built in backdoors since Windows 95. No one cared and now they phone tap everything. Get over it and move on.

The majority of anti-cheats are not kernel level. You are high. Backdoors have absolutely nothing to do with kernel level intrustion either and are not even in the same galaxy for capabilities. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to kernel level software. Here is a fact, I work in cyber security. There is zero reason to run kernel level anti cheat. Anti cheats for game companies dont get a big budget, it produces no income to cater to that. It is a sunk cost division that produces 0$ So big wig CEOs and higher ups dont put enough money into those divisions to be effective and go with the least required amount to keep enough people happy.

Companies now a days eat the hacks and have insurance cover as the insurance cost comes out to be cheaper than paying people to protect your assets.

bother to explain a little better to ignorant people as me? ...
i got a pair of questions: 1) Are you implying that kernel anti-cheat programs are bed developed and as such... doungerous for users pc ? and..
2) are anti-cheat program useless in term of granting a secure enveronment to pvp-games?

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Battlew:

Originally posted by Donttouchmyhohos:

The majority of anti-cheats are not kernel level. You are high. Backdoors have absolutely nothing to do with kernel level intrustion either and are not even in the same galaxy for capabilities. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to kernel level software. Here is a fact, I work in cyber security. There is zero reason to run kernel level anti cheat. Anti cheats for game companies dont get a big budget, it produces no income to cater to that. It is a sunk cost division that produces 0$ So big wig CEOs and higher ups dont put enough money into those divisions to be effective and go with the least required amount to keep enough people happy.

Companies now a days eat the hacks and have insurance cover as the insurance cost comes out to be cheaper than paying people to protect your assets.

bother to explain a little better to ignorant people as me? ...
i got a pair of questions: 1) Are you implying that kernel anti-cheat programs are bed developed and as such... doungerous for users pc ? and..
2) are anti-cheat program useless in term of granting a secure enveronment to pvp-games?

Kernel level anti cheats are root kits. They are malware. Yes they are bad and exceptionally dangerous they are by design and intention set up to give absolute authority and even more access and permission than an admin on their own machine.. Not all anticheat programs are of the same quality some are great and some are piss poor. This is also true of kernel level anti cheats as well but all kernel level anti cheat programs are inherently dangerous.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Battlew:

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

i Agree with you. And i really appreciate your practice example about Wife.
ps: i trust chinese government and china in general more than USA government n usa in general. So i ask you please, keep politic away from Informatics discussion.

No I will not keep Chinese risks out of the equation. The US has done some shady stuff and continues to do so sure.However when shady stuff like that happens it is not within the confines of legal activity. China however has given their intelligence access to the data and functionality of kernel level anticheat programs from companies that operate and are owned by Chinese companies.

This is not about politics it is about being well informed and using logic to help assess risks to establish best kept safety practices.

[Tomibouzu]

Originally posted by Battlew:

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

i Agree with you. And i really appreciate your practice example about Wife.
ps: i trust chinese government and china in general more than USA government n usa in general. So i ask you please, keep politic away from Informatics discussion.

20 social points have been removed from your account.
please refresh your social etiquette or report to your nearest reeducation facility.

[Battlew]

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

Originally posted by Battlew:

i Agree with you. And i really appreciate your practice example about Wife.
ps: i trust chinese government and china in general more than USA government n usa in general. So i ask you please, keep politic away from Informatics discussion.

No I will not keep Chinese risks out of the equation. The US has done some shady stuff and continues to do so sure.However when shady stuff like that happens it is not within the confines of legal activity. China however has given their intelligence access to the data and functionality of kernel level anticheat programs from companies that operate and are owned by Chinese companies.

This is not about politics it is about being well informed and using logic to help assess risks to establish best kept safety practices.

i could reply to your argument but i prefer to end it here about politics. I see your points tho, thanks for the explanation. ps: 20 social what tomibouzo? XD

[z1]

do you want cheaters?
yes > kernal cheaters will roam ban-free
no > kernal anti-cheat keeps them at bay

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by z1:

do you want cheaters?
yes > kernal cheaters will roam ban-free
no > kernal anti-cheat keeps them at bay

Kernel level cheating does not stop cheaters any more than a well made anticheat that is not kernel level. However kernel level anticheat is in fact malware as it is a root kit.

Kernel level does not provide a more robust anticheat because cheaters have been bypassing nprotect and eac for example for decades. What makes a good anticheat is logic and practice application not excessive permissions above superuser or admin. It is a fallacy to suggest an anticheat is only effective or more effective because you have granted it excessive authority (false dilemma fallacy).