Kernel Level Access AntiCheat is Really Bad

[Bu3(SW)]

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

[Lowbei]

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

Originally posted by Lowbei:

i like how the goalposts shifted from “name one company that was hacked or had a data breach as a result of kernel level anticheat” and they mention sony, who didnt have kernel level anticheat lol

cant take them seriously.

It is about the dangers of kernel level access in general not even specific to anticheat. It is a piss poor practice.

… you said it has happened, then when pressed about it, suddenly its not about something that happened, and just “the dangers of…”

too funny

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Lowbei:

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

It is about the dangers of kernel level access in general not even specific to anticheat. It is a piss poor practice.

… you said it has happened, then when pressed about it, suddenly its not about something that happened, and just “the dangers of…”

too funny

Oh no it is always about not giving 0 ring access to anyone ever that is not shifted. However in the context of ACE they are the target of our discussion so yes since they require 0 ring access they are in fact a major security concern. I have previously given you examples and you are free to verify those I am not ask jeeves. They did in fact happen and many more kernel level security breaches have happened many that nobody will ever even know of because successful hackers leave no trace. Your defense of this practice really truly shows your ignorance in the world of cyber security and you are speaking out your backside with nothing more than fallacy and blind trust.

[Lowbei]

in this thread:

OP makes wild claim

gets told its wrong

OP lies about ‘its happened before’

gets told to prove it

OP claims ‘dont ask me to prove it’ trust me bro

/thread

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by CyanCatMan:

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

-
Your defense of this practice really truly shows your ignorance in the world of cyber security and you are speaking out your backside with nothing more than fallacy and blind trust.

It doesn't even take being avid cyber security to understand you probably shouldn’t give your spare keys to your house to all your friends.

It takes 5 minutes to do research.
I will never understand people dying on a hill of ignorance when answers are right there in front of them.

This guy was given all this info in discord and no matter what refutes it and tries to say that there is nothing wrong with compromising the security of your computer and network by doing this.
I think he may just be a troll. I will just block him and do something more productive.

[DosBoss]

Originally posted by CyanCatMan:

Oh well do you know anyways to limit data skimming from programs like the anti-cheat?

An effective method is not installing it. You can further improve security by clicking 'Ignore' on the steam store whenever you come across DRM riddled trash that insists on shovelling anti-consumer crap onto your machine.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by CyanCatMan:

Originally posted by DosBoss:

An effective method is not installing it. You can further improve security by clicking 'Ignore' on the steam store whenever you come across DRM riddled trash that insists on shovelling anti-consumer crap onto your machine.

Yeah yeah so when do we get an actual answer besides never using a computer again?

Anitcheat does not have to be kernel level. There are still games that do not use it. Over the past 20 years there are only about 300 games that have used it and most have not. The issue though is it has an increasing trend with popular game right now. It is still not in the majority of games but it is growing significantly more popular.

The solution is simply telling developers no and forcing them to implement anticheat that is not so invasive and dangerous.

[Lowbei]

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

Originally posted by CyanCatMan:

Yeah yeah so when do we get an actual answer besides never using a computer again?

Anitcheat does not have to be kernel level. There are still games that do not use it. Over the past 20 years there are only about 300 games that have used it and most have not. The issue though is it has an increasing trend with popular game right now. It is still not in the majority of games but it is growing significantly more popular.

The solution is simply telling developers no and forcing them to implement anticheat that is not so invasive and dangerous.

nobody who matters, namely devs and publishers, will take the opinions of random people on the internet into account when making decisions about anticheat.

kernel level is coming to all AAA games in the future, and people will get on board with that, or they wont play games. there arent enough of these people to matter, regardless of how loudly they rage against it.

[fishle]

Originally posted by Kraz Johnson:

heres what u need to know


Mithril Interactive is a subsidary for tencent

Mithril Interactive are registered to singapore why would they do that and not
in there homeland

Used ISPs for online services, anti-cheat, server, dataupload and telemetry:
- Shenzhen Tencent Computer Systems Company Limited (Tencent Cloud Computing)
- Aceville Pte.ltd. (ACE (Anti-Cheat Expert) > Tencent))
- Tencent cloud computing (Beijing) Co., Ltd.

MoreFun Studios is a video game developer headquartered in Shenzhen, Beijing, and Shanghai, and a subsidiary of Tencent Games

Used ISPs for online services, anti-cheat, server, dataupload and telemetry:
- Shenzhen Tencent Computer Systems Company Limited (Tencent Cloud Computing)
- Aceville Pte.ltd. (ACE (Anti-Cheat Expert) > Tencent))
- Tencent cloud computing (Beijing) Co., Ltd.

they want to ban tiktok some stupid reasons but wait till they see thousands and thousands have this Ace Ac installed on pples pc.

they are scanning ur computers the hole time ur playing the game and u dont think there not saving ur data.. look at how much they spy on there own citizens.

Tencent owns almost everything nowadays. They own Riot, Epic and tons and tons of other major game studios. Being alarmed because tencent owns mithril is kinda silly. I mean, at least provide proof of something malicious occurring

[InsightKnight]

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

Better stop playing video games if this really bothers you since basically all modern anti-cheat uses Kernel level access because they have to in order to detect the advanced cheats out there now.

You should also know Microsoft has built in backdoors since Windows 95 so as much as you are concerned about Tencent botting you should be even more concerned with the NSA botting you.

... and just for a bonus you should also know that software logging is primitive at this point. All of the data is being physically logged from your router/motherboard/network card due to china made microchips/ROMs.

The time for being paranoid was useful 20 years ago. At this point it is already over and you are perma locked onto the tech grid. No way out of it if you are on planet earth due to ground penetrating satellite tech. Just being real.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by InsightKnight:

Originally posted by Bu3(SW):

I will start by explaining what a "Kernel" is and why it matters.

The Kernel is a part of the operating system with the highest level of access that can see everything and make changes to everything within the operating system and can interface as such with all files, software and hardware within the computer or networks that that system may have access and permissions to.

By default giving kernel level access to your computer for any reason is exceptionally dangerous because they can collect any data from your computer or run any script or program they want including malware.

Am I suggesting that the Dev will be spying on you or installing or running malware? No I am certainly not. I also would not suggest that you are trying to sleep with my wife. I would however not let you lay in bed with my wife naked (or at all).

Allowing this level of access and invasion of privacy as a general practice especially from a company owned by Tencent is exceptionally dangerous. Tencent is owned with a small 1% market share by The Chinese government and while this may not seem like a lot it granted the government special considerations in company decisions and allows them access (as Tencent is a Chinese company) to any and all files the company has access to.

This in theory could even result in your computer being used for Chinese state sponsored activities through the use of distributed cloud computing without you ever knowing it is happening.

In summary here are some risk of kernel level access:

Data Breach / Privacy
Malware
Control of your PC (for anything including cryptomining, DDoS or man in the middle attacks)
Surveillance
Use of Data by a foreign military through collecting of analytics
Distributed attacks

This is an exceptionally dangerous practice especially considering it is being used for gaming. To risk your livelihood for a game is not proper risk assessment. Even if The developer is never determined to be a bad actor and the Chinese Government never exercises authority they have to manipulate or collect data a hacker from within their network could cause substantial harm to your computer or your financials.

Better stop playing video games if this really bothers you since basically all modern anti-cheat uses Kernel level access because they have to in order to detect the advanced cheats out there now.

You should also know Microsoft has built in backdoors since Windows 95 so as much as you are concerned about Tencent botting you should be even more concerned with the NSA botting you.

... and just for a bonus you should also know that software logging is primitive at this point. All of the data is being physically logged from your router/motherboard/network card due to china made microchips/ROMs.

The time for being paranoid was useful 20 years ago. At this point it is already over and you are perma locked onto the tech grid. No way out of it if you are on planet earth due to ground penetrating satellite tech. Just being real.

Most games do NOT have kernel level access stop spreading lies.

This is not paranoia this is fact what is paranoia is your nonsense unproven claim that the us government has backdoors. That is based off of nothing but facebook memes and poorly written conspiracy theory documentaries.

Also as I live in The US not in China I am more concerned with China collecting analytics in preparation to a war and also conducting cyberwarfare like they have already been engaged in. Your comments are very naive and lack a functional understanding of basic cyber security or geopolitical events of the past 20 years.

[MindTrix]

If you don't like it don't install it. We are all adults and can make choices for ourselves. A bunch of geeks trying to say this is bad or dangerous can F right off. You have a choice what to install or not to install on your own PC not mine. So nobody cares about your facts or opinions. Good day

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by MindTrix:

If you don't like it don't install it. We are all adults and can make choices for ourselves. A bunch of geeks trying to say this is bad or dangerous can F right off. You have a choice what to install or not to install on your own PC not mine. So nobody cares about your facts or opinions. Good day

It is actually really bad like from a security standpoint it is a 10 out of 10 bad. Kernel level access basically requires installing a rootkit onto your computer. Kernel level antivirus is in fact malware. It happens to be malware people are often generally accepting out of ignorance but it is malware and most people do not realize this.

The game is great but the anticheat is toxic malware. I mean lets call it what it is at this point. Kernel level anticheat is malware.

Sure people can decide for themselves but they should be informed and understand the risks without people like you trying to downplay it with leis and fallacy.

[RWND]

We already know, and we don't care.

As a CS player, you can install malware in my BIOS for all I care as long as there are no cheaters.

[Extzy]

Imagine thinking your information is important. You're a regular insignificant person. Oh no my full address, hentai collection and dog's birthday is compromised! Ain't no hacker that can breach security like that will do anything with your information. They're looking for big names or being white hat, not scam grandma's little boy.

[Bu3(SW)]

Originally posted by Extzy:

Imagine thinking your information is important. You're a regular insignificant person. Oh no my full address, hentai collection and dog's birthday is compromised! Ain't no hacker that can breach security like that will do anything with your information. They're looking for big names or being white hat, not scam grandma's little boy.

You need to stop watching hacker movies that have you convinced hackers only target high profile celebrities and politicians. Hackers target everyone they can. Hacking even a nobody gives them the ability to build a distributed network, conceal their identity and to steal financial data for identity theft.