Suggestions/Balance

[Instinct]

Post your feedback in here.

*discussions are allowed*

[Fireandsteel]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

I don't quote split quotes like you because I reply on the mobile steam app. Quoting is a little messy on mobile.

But you can still quote a person without spliting up the reply.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

To me a noob is someone who is either an idiot or focuses completely on multiplayer. For example, I have the same problem with the newer generation of Mount and Blade fans. Where the game is a singleplayer exclusive. (Putting aside team deathmatch style multiplayer.) But the newer players are pestering devs to add co-op. ( this breaks the core mechanics of the game) So yes I'm also a noob to others standards here but so are multiplayer exclusives.

Men of war assault sqaud 2 was made for multiplayer. just look at how bad the so called campaign is. No correlation between one mission and the next. No central important characters. I see mowas2 as a let down to singleplayers. I used to only play singleplayer.

I don't see anything wrong with coop in mount and blade. As long as they focus on more important game mechanics first.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

You're treating single player as if its a piece of trash and multiplayer is a god.

You are saying kv2 should not be balanced. My problem is that you have never actually faced an opponent who has a kv2, let alone a good opponent.
I am not trashing singleplayer. But it is not the same deal. Like I said, the ai is basic in this game. All it does is spams, there's no tactics behind the ai.
Singleplayer is fun. However In mow as2 the ai is garbage. because it is garbage. any balance based on playing against this garbage ai is probably bad. Because it is incapable of responding and making decisions.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

I assure you that there's plenty of games where AI provides a hefty challenge. Yes if the AI isn't programmed correctly it won't be challenging. However, if it is programmed well then it's steady. The AI don't have noobs and trolls etc. They (when programmed well) always provide a challenge. Humans are a mixed breed. 90% are noobs or trolls and 10% are actually skilled.

You don't need to assure anything.
Supreme commander is a good example of good AI. However Sup com is also basic compared to MoW as it is just spamming units. Higher levels of sup com ai also cheats. So while this makes it challenging. It does not put you on fair ground.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

You don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying.

I do, you are trying to stand on ground that does not exsist.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

You've split my argument into four sections here.

Makes sure I respond to each segment without getting lost.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

What I'm saying is that no matter which game it is. There's always noobs, trolls, unskilled players. ( yes an occasional skilled player.)

So are we noobs because we can't kill a kv2?
Tell me how to kill it efficiently (same cost or less 5 sp (1000mp)). I am all ears.

The unit is broken because it is actually proven to be broken. By many players. Devs even acknowledge it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

They're usually tunnel visioned and only see a couple of events at a time.

That is just gamers in general.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

AI however, sees everything at once and can simultaneously control units.

But, the ai will never talk to you, and it will never try un scripted tactics. So once you find its weakness, you can take advantage, and i will never change. AI is not that advanced yet.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

But if all AI did this, then even fewer people would be able to handle it. So they have to allow dumbed down versions of AI that better simulate what a human can physically do.

Well I don't believe that.
I think the ai is the same as it was in soldier heroes of ww2 (2004), with minor adjustments.
When we have an ai that can be given the same resources as the player and strategically beat the player using tactics, I will believe you.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

Sure they might not always angle armour correctly or prioritize the King Tiger over a flamethrower division. But think of how much AI has improved since the start of gaming. They've changed from patterned movements to more unpredictable strategies. Give programmers some more time and then nobody will be able to say that humans are better than AI in any way.

Are we not talking about the present though?

[UwU]

@Bearnom


You just play with only AI,
So, you are stupid like as AI.


The AI just stupidly keeps defend his position
or shoots only within 70-80% of the maximum range.
Or stupidly just walk to the victory base,

Humans can use terrain to shoot beyond range and secretly infiltrate the rear of the frnotline and sabotage expensive units such as King Tiger. Humans also know the weaknesses and solutions of all tanks and use thousands of different tactics

In multiplayer I exposed a weak armcar sdkfz222 to m4a3 sherman,
So, attract Sherman to deep alliance terrain and killed Sherman by ambushed Pak40,

and also I produced a hard Jumbo Sherman,
Although it can withstand the shooting of the Tiger but it is relatively cheap than tiger.

and i was shoot and keep shoot the tiger`s track,
when tiger`s track is damaged, shot the artillery signal gun to tiger by radio operator.

Do you think AI can do this?


I ask one thing

Are you playing a mission pack or an assault zone?

[FizzyCupcake]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Korean_TigerACE:

@Bearnom


You just play with only AI,
So, you are stupid like as AI.


The AI just stupidly keeps defend his position
or shoots only within 70-80% of the maximum range.
Or stupidly just walk to the victory base,

Humans can use terrain to shoot beyond range and secretly infiltrate the rear of the frnotline and sabotage expensive units such as King Tiger. Humans also know the weaknesses and solutions of all tanks and use thousands of different tactics

In multiplayer I exposed a weak armcar sdkfz222 to m4a3 sherman,
So, attract Sherman to deep alliance terrain and killed Sherman by ambushed Pak40,

and also I produced a hard Jumbo Sherman,
Although it can withstand the shooting of the Tiger but it is relatively cheap than tiger.

and i was shoot and keep shoot the tiger`s track,
when tiger`s track is damaged, shot the artillery signal gun to tiger by radio operator.

Do you think AI can do this?


I ask one thing

Are you playing a mission pack or an assault zone?

AI is not as stupid as you say. They are far superior in almost every way. They just have one weakness. They can't learn like humans. That's the one last string that humans hold onto to defeat AI.

And I play both campaign missions and skirmish extreme assault zones.

[terve886]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Korean_TigerACE:

@Bearnom


You just play with only AI,
So, you are stupid like as AI.


The AI just stupidly keeps defend his position
or shoots only within 70-80% of the maximum range.
Or stupidly just walk to the victory base,

Humans can use terrain to shoot beyond range and secretly infiltrate the rear of the frnotline and sabotage expensive units such as King Tiger. Humans also know the weaknesses and solutions of all tanks and use thousands of different tactics

In multiplayer I exposed a weak armcar sdkfz222 to m4a3 sherman,
So, attract Sherman to deep alliance terrain and killed Sherman by ambushed Pak40,

and also I produced a hard Jumbo Sherman,
Although it can withstand the shooting of the Tiger but it is relatively cheap than tiger.

and i was shoot and keep shoot the tiger`s track,
when tiger`s track is damaged, shot the artillery signal gun to tiger by radio operator.

Do you think AI can do this?


I ask one thing

Are you playing a mission pack or an assault zone?

AI is not as stupid as you say. They are far superior in almost every way. They just have one weakness. They can't learn like humans. That's the one last string that humans hold onto to defeat AI.

And I play both campaign missions and skirmish extreme assault zones.

There is no way you can claim that the AI is superiour when the only thing it does is to move to preset locations and only react to the units it is currently seeing. If you aproach AI tank from the side, it will not react to your flanking despite you being spotted by other AI units. The only advantage that AI has is the amount and quality of units that it is wielding to crush the player with numbers.

[FizzyCupcake]

Personally I actually like the way they've set up the missions. In this kind of game, I prefer to have individual missions based on the real battles from ww2. Sure they're not completely accurate but I still like it.

I don't want to turn this into an MnB debate but Having several thousand hours on the GOG versions of these games hopefully you'll accept my opinion. To make co-op the only way they could do it is by putting all the players in one army. The devs have even said this is the only way. However, most people don't seem to see it but this would cause arguments on what to do or where to go. People would get sick of the arguing and stop playing co-op. Then the devs have wasted time. There would be a very select few of the absolute closest friends that could play it without arguments.

No I'm not saying it shouldn't be balanced at all. I'm just trying to get the korean to shut up about it. Because his complaining is getting old.

I'm not calling you a noob Because of that. I'm just saying that most humans are noobs even in other situations. But my tactic (just my own opinion, not taken from the tactics encyclopedia) against any tank destroyer or anything causing problems to tanks is try to sneak in an AT infantry or use a howitzer with higher range.

Like I said to korean. AI is superior in every way except that humans can learn their tactics.

That isn't my point. What I was saying is that AI can simultaneously control 10 separate units on opposite ends of the map. Humans ,however, are physically and mentally incapable of doing that. So to make it easier for humans, devs have to dumb down that ability to force them into a similar ability range as humans. This makes them much more noobish.

Yes we are talking about the present. I just wanted to say that AI is drastically improving at this moment. Look at mount and blade bannerlord. Their gameplay seems to show AI using more tactics than any other AI I've seen so far. So soon multiplayer exclusives will have no ground to stand on when arguing that humans are better than AI in gaming.

[FizzyCupcake]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย terve886:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย BearNom:

AI is not as stupid as you say. They are far superior in almost every way. They just have one weakness. They can't learn like humans. That's the one last string that humans hold onto to defeat AI.

And I play both campaign missions and skirmish extreme assault zones.

There is no way you can claim that the AI is superiour when the only thing it does is to move to preset locations and only react to the units it is currently seeing. If you aproach AI tank from the side, it will not react to your flanking despite you being spotted by other AI units. The only advantage that AI has is the amount and quality of units that it is wielding to crush the player with numbers.

Did you not read anything I just said.
I said that AI is superior in every way EXCEPT in the way that humans can learn the tactics of enemies. If AI could learn like us, then they would start to counter flanks etc. So that is the final thing we have to make us superior.

[UwU]

@Bearnom

So, reason of why AI is smarter than humans is human can only control units within a single screen. but AI is able to control all units?

that is reason? Is that all?

wow good!!

what a great speech!!!

yeah, yeah, You are right

AI is even if the anti-tank infantry approaches the tank, no action take.
And AI does not know how to throw a grenade with cooking.
And AI is not know about to shoot down enemy snipers.
the counter sniping.
And AI does not secretly crawl Anti-tank infantry to enemy tanks.
And AI do not know how to ambush an Anti-tank gun

but AI is able to control all units!!!!!!!
that`s is reason of why AI is more superior than human!!!!!

Guys, Bearnom is retarde.d, or has no learning ability, or has AI-level intelligence. Do not teach your knowledge to this stupid jerk for free.

In Korea, we do not teach difficult things to a child who does not have learning ability.

We only teaches necessary in everyday life.

How to lift chopsticks, sit in a toilet, look at traffic lights,
And basic addition, subtraction, division, multiplication. and so on.

Also, korea is a conscription state, and I was a soldier for two years.
My task was the loading of the k-9 self-propelled gun.
It was a 155mm He shell

But our country used k-9 for Anti-infantry, base strike, or light vehicles

we did not use k-9 for Anti-Tank mission on the front line.

but Kv-2 was able to destroy tiger and panther.
I agree that, but it is reason of why we must increase the kv-2`s price

and Kv-2 is designed to destroy fortresses
No more put into the anti-tank missions than su-100 or su-122, su-152, or IS-2.

But these days, the bs3 100mm anti-tank gun and su-100, is-2 are ignored

And He shell tanks. such as kv-2 or isu-152 are more put to anti-tank missions.

They are cheaper than tiger, panther, persing, and cention, jagdpanther.

and can destroy them by the He shell at a very safety long distance.

However, this AI worshipper seems can not understand even that.

Poor Bearnom. :(

I will pray for ur dead brain cell.

[FizzyCupcake]

You know how much I've actually held my tongue throughout this debate. While you openly swear at me and call me retarded. But now you've taken it that step further than debate anger. This is more of an attack.

I don't care if you were conscripted. The way I've grown up I'd gladly volunteer for the military.

You're focusing completely on MOW AI. I'm talking about AI as a whole. Every argument you make against AI could be made invalid if they had the ability to learn as humans.

I did not start arguing with you because I think the KV-2 isn't powerful. I just think that lots of people are getting annoyed with your constant complaining. If you had something new every time to complain about then fine. But you only have one thing that you don't shut up about. I think that after a year you can safely say that the devs don't care what you think.

[karski]

That's some good trolling, AI in this game, not even once XD. It's AI is from 2004 year, it just sends all units on attack move, and voila, you can do anything and you'll win if you're not an idiot. This game was made for MP which isn't balanced sadly (it was going to be i guess for assault zones), KV-2 is a tricky one because sometimes u'll track a guy and just oneshot turret to kill tank to death, and sometimes you'll fart lose your shoots and get rushed, but the real problems are the bugs and maps and some SP units balance, rest is quite good. Tbh ♥♥♥ got best units, with the 1SP grenade rifle which got 90mm pene which kills all tanks from top.
btw KV-2 has effective range of 500, Tiger only for 170 if using glitch, that's the problem :P.

[SAUSAGESTAB]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Korean_TigerACE:

@sausagetab
loading speed of kv-2 is 15 seconds. not 25 seconds

Nope, just did some tests, it is 25 seconds. However the other Howitzer tanks of its tier also reload at 25 seconds. (Sherman 105, Stuh42, Cromwell 93 etc)

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fireandsteel:

Bs3 needs to be buffed.

By buffing SU-100, it should inadvertently buff the BS-3 in the sense they use the same cannon.

[karski]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย SAUSAGESTAB:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Korean_TigerACE:

@sausagetab
loading speed of kv-2 is 15 seconds. not 25 seconds

Nope, just did some tests, it is 25 seconds. However the other Howitzer tanks of its tier also reload at 25 seconds. (Sherman 105, Stuh42, Cromwell 93 etc)

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fireandsteel:

Bs3 needs to be buffed.

By buffing SU-100, it should inadvertently buff the BS-3 in the sense they use the same cannon.

All Su tanks are bad against germs, against germs u have to use howitzer tanks, against ♥♥♥ u use SU tank destroyers (especially early su-76 which kills all light tanks, for a cheap price, also su-85 kills rest of the tanks) Su-122 with overshooting kills all tanks up to king tiger, su-152 same but it's not worth the price, 85mm gun tank and destroyer are for ♥♥♥ tanks

[FizzyCupcake]

Once again I was talking about AI in general. Sure they may not have programmed little details very well but the AI is still not the worst I've seen.

[UwU]

@Bearnom

So, the reason of why you criticize me is continue to claim kv-2 nerf in this thread.
right? so, i irritated the others?
are you really think so?

Look around,

the who claimed, I was annoying others?
There are only you and ranger.
just two.

I fak jur mom simulator, SAUSAGESTAB, terve886, Fireandsteel
Sunbeam, S akaali and so on

They never said to me "You are annoying to me"

Only u and ranger.

Because I am an expert in this game, and multiplayer, and customer

I have the right to continue to argue until my opinion is reflected.

I'm bothering others? It's only your perspective.

All other customers have the right to assert their just opinions.

Are you angry with me? That is natural.
Because you attacked me first.

You are a non - expert. but talked about this topic.

Of course, if u want to add AI on ur server
Airborne DLC is required.

And If you were trying to assert your opinion in ignorance,

you should have been prepared to be blamed.

Because here is a place of argument.

Are you angry and can not say anything anymore?
Then hug your fuc.king ponie and do shed tears.
like this
http://s23.postimg.org/xib2vm62z/Average_Brony_n1314439099733.jpg

ur a dirty and disgusting brony.
The Weeaboos like as you, must be suicide.

If my brother or subordinate soldier put that fuc.king picture on steam profile.

I will punch him.

useless of shi.t

[FizzyCupcake]

Does everybody see the stupidity of this guy?

You say I attacked you first but that's not true. I simply debated against your constant arguing. You're the first to openly attack with swearing and personal things. There's plenty of people who haven't posted who im sure find you irritating.

And I'd love to see you try punch a military brony. Seriously, you treat us as if we're pathetic little 10 year olds with no muscle. Try googling military bronies react to teens react to my little pony. There's plenty of muscly guys there who would knock your brains out no problem.

And I'd hardly call you an "expert" you have a pathetic 2000 hours approx. To be an expert you need 10000 hours at least and that includes playing both single player and multiplayer excessively.

[FizzyCupcake]

I just looked back to previous comments and how you (korean) say that I only have ranger on my side saying you're annoying. Further back ,before the debate started, pretty much all of us were saying you're irritating. Or saying your complaints are invalid.