Ridiculous KV-1 (and variants) frontal armor

[RoflTank]

Has anybody noticed that the KV-1 can survive hits from an 8.8cm loading APCR without a scratch? From a distressingly close range too, might I add, you can really only get a kill shot from under 100m.

Now this is completely unhistorical, seeing as how a StuG IV was easily capable of engaging the KV-1 in a medium range fight and winning. The StuG IV used a StuK 40/L48, and the StuK 40/L48 (along with a majority of German AT weapons) used the Pzgr.39 APCBCHE round (Armor Piercing Capped Ballistic Capped High Explosive) as its standard AP round. This round when fired out of the StuK40/L48 had a penetration of 96mm @ 500m. The KV-1 was pretty tough, I'll admit, packing 94mm effective armor on its lower-upper glacis, and 86mm effective on its upper glacis plate.

None of that armor is good enough to stop a StuK 40/L48. And in comparison to the bigger, better German AT weaponry, the StuK 40/L48 may as well be a potato gun. The 8.8cm KwK 36/L58 (Tiger main gun) had a penetration of 110mm @ 500m w/ Pzgr.39, and the 8.8cm KwK 43/L71 (KT main gun) had a penetration of 185mm @ 500m w/ Pzgr.39. But the KV-1 can just lolnope its way through combat against a Koenigstiger and its 8.8cm KwK 43/L71, even when using APCR (217mm @ 500m). Worse yet, the Panther's 7.5cm KwK 43/L70 (124mm @ 500m w/ Pzgr.39) can't even kill a KV-1 reliably.


So again, anybody else find the KV-1 ridiculously well armored from the front? Just something to think about next balance change Devs.

TL;DR - KV-1 is too tough from the front, German AT weapons/Tank main guns should punch holes in the KV-1 as if it was a wet paper sack, end of story.

[Simon the Chimpmunk]

i throw a dynamite near KV1 and it only crew injury!! :D

[DeltaDude]

Personally, KV1 dies pretty easily for me, I tend to aim at the turret which is pretty easy to hit since it is larger than most. Once that is out, its fair game.

[{F13}Storm]

Really doesn't answer why its able to ignore hits so often.. I've had the tiger, and the flak 88, the king tiger, jagdtiger all bounce off of KV-1's multiple times(on non angled armor as well).. perhaps there is a bug?

[Costarring]

First of all, I prefer realism before balance (balance is not a priority if you don't play MP...)

Sometimes realism needs to make way for balance (specially in a MP focused game).
This is probably one of those cases.
Doesn't mean it's finalized (that KV-1)

Just be happy that not everything is 100% historical.

Ammunition distrubution would be hell for some tanks/guns.
They had 2 piece (propellant and projectile separate) ammunition. Think "supply trucks"
No need to change barrels for MG's.
Soldiers being able to carry 1200 rounds of ammo + a gun + grenades + shovel&bags etc.
Mortar crews would have 10 rounds tops.

If you looked at all factions, I think we could find a couple of 1000 "historical mistakes" (for the sake of game balance).

(Since when did the Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E (the final version of the Tiger) have an MG 42 installed at the commander's cupola? You only see it in impressions/paintings/plastic models... no such thing as a Tiger with MG42)
(Being able to carry and use a Browning .50Cal by just a single soldier, and carry 1000 rounds...)
(Soviet AT-Rifles were a lot less effective in reality then how they are portrayed in MoW)
(2 man gun crews for each faction? And being able to move those guns with just 2 guys???)

[Foshizo]

Historically, a KV-1 was reported having taken 167 85mm AP shells to its front hull, none of which pierced the armor. KV-1 had the thickest armor in the world from 1941-1943, but it's incredibly weak to flank attacks, and very slow.

[ewt.strat29]

I find it a unique vehicle and it fits in nicely. It does bounce a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of shells if aimed frontally and not in a decent range. It is quite nuts on the armor in front.. but in terms of balance it is not overpowered.


The things that make it not OP are.

1) Price is decent : at 550 MP you have a decision to make if you want to have stronger armor tank with a bad gun or a lighter armored t34 57 faster and better gun at 500mp.
2) Weakness : It does have a weakness as delta suggests, the turret.
3) Enemies - At 550mp, tank vs tank you will be going up against H. maybe 80% of the time i would actually prefer the H in a 1v1 scenario. Also at that time bradenburgers are out that can disrupt its movements.
Those things above make is not unbalanced.
4) CP cost.

The things that make it worth 550mp.. are

1) Strong hulll armor - You can use this as a safe distance shooter to fight enemy light vehicles such as 222's and luch. Other tanks will struggle to kill you at max range. This is where the KV-1 really shines in compeittive play , to protect your infantry safely from a distance from lights.
2) Early heavy tank - to do a safer push without being that worried of being killed.
3) Easier tank to use - this is a newb friendly tank. They don't need to know much about ambush, 50/50 play, angling or tank counters.. they can plonk it down somewhere and it won't usually die that easy. This is also the main reason it is deceptively thought of being OP. It is not. That being said, alot of new players do cry about balance this is OP.. That being the reason, you are complaining about a newb friendly unit.

[Yoshizz]

To this date, I still have not managed to pierce the lower glacis ok KV-1 with Pak43 at very close range (223 of penetration so obviously green penetration indicator) in the editor.
I can see the trace of impact but it seems to go trought without causing damage.

I also have reason to believe it's a bug ...

Did you noticed this ?

[ewt.strat29]

hmmm i haven't actually tried attacking the frontal hull in AS 2 with a heavy gun. Because im so used to taking out the turret then flanking it. Plus most of the time i kill them with bradenbergers panzerfauts to the side as well. AS1, pak43 has no problems doing so.. also and 88's at close range to the frontal hull.

So you could be right on that point.. if a pak43 is indeed unable to penetrate at close range then tahts a bit silly. That's the most powerful gun, what range are you talking? For a pak43, it should be able to penerate at 100m. a KV-1 shouldnt be able to LOB a HE round to a PAK43 whilst being invunerable, that is a balance issue for germans and the pak43 then...

For a 88, In AS2 ranges that is still far to medium imo for a 88 at100m

[ewt.strat29]

Sorry can't help myself talking about balance.. This brings another issue, i find at guns quite underpowered in AS 2.

[Yoshizz]

I mean at minimum range, 20m for example (so maximum penetration and green indicator) , I used pak 43 just to test because I had noticed that the KV-1's lower glacis seemed to be not pierced in Seelow Height skirmish. It's same thing with other guns which should pierce it, according to penetration indicator (same for bazooka and Panzerschreck)
I think you can check it in the editor.

[ewt.strat29]

will have to test sometime, i also mistook my AS1 prices. KV1 is actually 650mp! in AS 2 not 550mp which makes it even less OP.

[Conker]

From my expirece of playing from faces of war on up to this current game i have to say from i feel the Russains were nerfed a tad. But its hardly noticable.

The KV i feel serves its purpose. Its not like the dam thing is rocking an 90 or 88mm cannon. For balance i feel its right where it needs to be.

Use the KV as a frontline tank and have your bigger gun behind it. Works wonders and the KV excels at dealing with the light armored tank destroy units.

On its own, its not much of a threat. Yea it takes a few rounds to take down. Welp, Rather
a) Shoot out its tracks.
b) try shooting somthing besides the frontal armor
or c) anti tank grenade it.


The game has its realism and its balancing pretty well, well balanced.

[RoflTank]

Postat inițial de Ivan:

Did anybody else noticed few weirds things ?
1) Super Preshing front armor especially turret for example ( where is the extra turret 80mm armor added ??? Penetration can be done at ~140mm instead 180mm+
2) Whole T-34s series is nerfed, whole front hull armor was 45 thick which gives ~90 armor protection, why can you penetrate lower front hull already at 70mm ????? And you always hit that point even if you don`t aim there ( even more weird is that SU85,100 has it corect )....
3) Why is KT still overpowered ??? The front lower hull was not 150mm thick but 100, repeat 100mm thick, i don`t give a single ♥♥♥♥♥ that it was not penetrated during war or not ( And Yes it was penetrated at 1 situation )
I saw many complains like that on DMS few years ago.

Its so hard to correct it Instinct ?

KT lower glacis was still 154mm effective, more than impenetrable to guns the Russians were using. Also, the KT was never penetrated from the front, ever, in WWII. This is a 100% fact. British 17pdr. APDS rounds could theoretically penetrate a KT from the front, but the reality was that APDS couldn't hit the broadside of a barn at even medium ranges, so the theory was moot.

The rest of your stuff I don't even care about, Russian armor may as well have been cardboard for all the good it did those tankers. If it's wrong, whatever, as long as guns that should penetrate said armor can still penetrate. My point is, the KV-1 is unhistorically well armored on the front. The KT should be nigh impenetrable, the KV-1... not so much.

When an 88mm has problems punching through a tank that a mid-war 75mm could punch through easily, something is wrong.

[HCGxKaLiBeR]

I play World of Tank atm. It's pretty much the same bewteen MoW and WoT.

KV-1's hull armor is kinda bouncy if you are using the short 88mm(L56) or 75mm L48.

However, it's turret or any flat(non angled) armor is very easy to penetrate.

[Osseon]

Ok I just ran some tests. It seems like the entire KV1 hull is invulnerable below a certain point. Shooting with about 170mm worth of penetration at point blank (10m) The front bumper is invulnverable, with any penetration I threw at it. On the sides the track (gears? Axles? whatever) will take unlimited hits. Only on the top of the tracks on the side on the hull proper will the tank take any damage reliably.

In other words, the new KV-1 model is completely screwy and bugged. Tested with the KV-85 and the KV-85 passes with flying colors, died on any surface. It just seems to be the KV-1.

So to anyone facing this tank in multiplayer. Aim for the driverslit/hull mount MG area if you want to successfully kill it, the flat bumper will not work. Turret and track it for reliable kills.

PS: Ivan you need to chill out, this is the second topic (and I'm sure there are more) where you've gone back and forth with someone over silly nonsense. No need to make these forums anymore hostile than they are already.