OPTION TO DISABLE MP RFUND

[SudKreuz]

That's all i'd want. I love the game but this "game mechanic" ruins all the fun for me. (And i'm not the only one, lot of friends thinks exactly like me).

The MP refund mechanic is atrocious, is anti-strategic. In a strategy game losing units SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED BY ANY MEANS.

In the current state of the game is "RECOMMENDED" to lose cheap squads instead keeping them alive, what the hell? Honestly?

I understand that some people needs the "handicap" to being able to recover after losing the first squad, or simply they don't have the enough skill to micromanage the whole battlefield,

But for those who enjoy playing carefully and strategically give us the option to disable (or configure) the manpower refund. 75% - 50% - 25% or zero.

That would make happy everyone, don't you think so?

[Simers]

MP payback is very miniscule in the grand scheme of things, the better player will win out regardless of payback. Sometimes losing a few guys is necessary in this game, the game rewards those who probe and create vision, not those who turtle and try to not lose 1 man.

[SudKreuz]

Turtle in this game equals to losing a lot of people due artillery and mortars, dynamic players constantly moving and positioning tend to lose less units.

Losing units on purpose should not be awarded,

Losing units by mistake should be punished,

If you can't understand this simple statement then you should not be playing strategy games,

If you lose it, it's gone... adapt and react, this mechanic allows the guy who's losing more units to be the one who dictates the rythm of the battle and it should be the opposite,

Sorry if you are buthurt, but what i'm saying is true,

And I'm not asking to remove the man power refund, I'm asking for an option to enable / disable,

[Sunbeam]

LoL.... i think you don't really understand refund system nor understand how to play

[jdudezzz]

I actually don't like the payback system. It should be capped at like 1.2 times back. There are moments in the game where it simply rewards stupidity.

Edit: Especially don't like it in team games.

[Sunbeam]

Normal game set to 3000MP however you don't get 3000MP at the start, you get only 160, What MP gain does is slowly unlock MP for you. When it hits it maximum you no longer get it.

Refund on other hand slowly returns MP you used after the unit dies. Which is your only income after MP hits it maximum. But in the end no matter how much refund you get your MP+units cost on the field you have will never be higher than maximum MP which is same as your opponents.

If you remove refund game will be over after first unequal trade that can even be first engagement. Simply because from that point one player will always have larger MP army on the field which will snowball to the spawn with no comeback. Refund on other hand slowly balance out MP situation to be back to equal allowing losing player to get back into game. If winning player did not take advantage over that time well...

Also how does game recommends to lose cheap units? If you lose 120MP unit it will return at X rate. If you lose 400MP unit it will also return at same X rate.

[SudKreuz]

It's not a snowball, you need to score a critical punch on the enemy army to re-pair the balance of power.

The lovely part about this game is that a single soldier can destroy a tank and 2 soldiers properly used can annihilate a whole squad,

And yes, the player who lose less units should have more units, on the other hand the more aggresive player should have more victory points, it's a strategy game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is not a call of duty,

In the current state of the game the more aggressive player have the same amount of units AND more victory points, and the game lose the dynamic of attack / defense and the dichotomy of risk / reward because attacking is always beneficial,

EDIT: You don't want to lose a critical unit as a tiger or a hummel because you let a window to the enemy to crush you, cheap units as volksgrenadiers are not needed on the battlefield to react against critical threats, as enemy armor,

[Sunbeam]

Originally posted by SudKreuz:

It's not a snowball, you need to score a critical punch on the enemy army to re-pair the balance of power.

The lovely part about this game is that a single soldier can destroy a tank and 2 soldiers properly used can annihilate a whole squad,

And yes, the player who lose less units should have more units, on the other hand the more aggresive player should have more victory points, it's a strategy game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is not a call of duty,

In the current state of the game the more aggressive player have the same amount of units AND more victory points, and the game lose the dynamic of attack / defense and the dichotomy of risk / reward because attacking is always beneficial,

If i wipe you at the start 8 to 0 what will be you critical punch when with MP increase of 1.5 you will get your next squad only after one minute of game, but wait it will have to face 16 units because I will be able to get it also.

[SudKreuz]

Originally posted by Sunbeam:

If i wipe you at the start 8 to 0 what will be you critical punch when with MP increase of 1.5 you will get your next squad only after one minute of game, but wait it will have to face 16 units because I will be able to get it also.

Exactly what I say and the way it should be, if you lose such amount of units then you deserve to lose the game,

On the current state of the game you will be able to deploy an apc or light tank and I won't have a hard counter to that, and the game rewarded you for losing your units,

And now the game will reward me for losing my infantry against a light tank, and guess what? Now you are going to be punished,
It's not strategic, it's sick.

Anyway, I'm asking for an option to DISABLE the manpower refund, I'm not asking to remove it,

[Sunbeam]

Originally posted by SudKreuz:

Originally posted by Sunbeam:

If i wipe you at the start 8 to 0 what will be you critical punch when with MP increase of 1.5 you will get your next squad only after one minute of game, but wait it will have to face 16 units because I will be able to get it also.

Exactly what I say and the way it should be, if you lose such amount of units then you deserve to lose the game,

On the current state of the game you will be able to deploy an apc or light tank and I won't have a hard counter to that, and the game rewarded you for losing your units,

And now the game will reward me for losing my infantry against a light tank, and guess what? Now you are going to be punished,
It's not strategic, it's sick.

Anyway, I'm asking for an option to DISABLE the manpower refund, I'm not asking to remove it,

facepalm...
So you like playing one minute games? Because 120MP worth of units is so many units to lose game...

If enemy so desperate that it rolls out 222/pz2 using it all MP poll you don't need hard counter moreover if you skilled player you would be ready for that.

Only way to play without refund is when all MP poll available from the start

[SudKreuz]

If you ever played Company of Heroes // red alert // age of empires // Civilization V // heroes of might and magic or ANY strategy game you would know that no refund doesn't mean 1 minutes games,

But whatever dude...

Live and let live, I'm not asking to remove the mp refund, if you enjoy that "handicap" or you need it good for you, I can turn the tide of a battle without such mechanic,

And honestly, I'm not going to reply to you anymore, there's no point in discussing with someone soo stubborn and ignorant,

In MoW:AS1 there was an option to disable the refund, can't understand why they remove it in MoW:AS2,

GL&HF

[Sunbeam]

Originally posted by SudKreuz:

If you ever played Company of Heroes // red alert // age of empires // Civilization V // heroes of might and magic or ANY strategy game you would know that no refund doesn't mean 1 minutes games,

But whatever dude...

Live and let live, I'm not asking to remove the mp refund, if you enjoy that "handicap" or you need it good for you, I can turn the tide of a battle without such mechanic,

And honestly, I'm not going to reply to you anymore, there's no point in discussing with someone soo stubborn and ignorant,

In MoW:AS1 there was an option to disable the refund, can't understand why they remove it in MoW:AS2,

GL&HF

All those games involve base building and resource management moreover early rush is one of the tactics in those games. Civ5 is not even RTS /o

Yep i'm worst player NA and I need it to get good

[ewt.strat29]

"I can turn the tide of a battle without such mechanic,"
That sounds arrogant

My 2 cents.
In assault zones if you try play without pay back and you lose the first opening you will be pushed to spawn. If the players are evenly skilled and know how to play optimally the players best vs best players.. the person who wins first engagement will be able to easily win in minutes. The snowball effect is very real.

Eitherway I can see your point for different type of games and settings. In a Combat game where there is no objective flag to cap. Yes, this could work. In assault zones it will make it pretty hard to come back. Sure you can come back, though its very unlikely vs same skilled opponents. In a competitive vs game this is bad for gameplay.

Payback really only matters at the start btw.. your examples of tiger andhummel etc are not valid. If you have a tiger payback does not matter. It ONLY MATTERS IN THE FIRST 3 minutes of the game in a proper competitive game.. in a more campy game maybe a bit longer.. rest depends on the CP you have on the field.. THAT is what matters.
Well if your playing combat it may last even longer as people are just camping. Btw Hummel also is a useless unit if you know how to play this is totally useless. Also arty and mortars are useless too, I am not sure what game you are playing.. maybe combat sandbox non balanced mode. I would be first be complaining that those units are useless if you want to win a game, it will change gameplay more then payback.

Anyway payback is so small it does not matter, i'd much rather win a battle then lose units for payback. You lose the position + its so small.. and by the time you get to 3 mionutes or so.. payback is CONSTANT for both players.. unless your playing camp your spawn.
Or yet again unbalanced modes like combat or changing settings to 600000 mp

Apologies if this comes across harsh but i think you have been quite rude to other people

But sure it can be a setting =) for those that want to play this way. Maybe someone can mod it for players that want it off. Though I think its bad for game play.

[SudKreuz]

Originally posted by Strat29_sleep_NOSPOILERS!:

"I can turn the tide of a battle without such mechanic,"
That sounds arrogant

My 2 cents.
In assault zones if you try play without pay back and you lose the first opening you will be pushed to spawn. If the players are evenly skilled and know how to play optimally the players best vs best players.. the person who wins first engagement will be able to easily win in minutes. The snowball effect is very real.

Eitherway I can see your point for different type of games and settings. In a Combat game where there is no objective flag to cap. Yes, this could work. In assault zones it will make it pretty hard to come back. Sure you can come back, though its very unlikely vs same skilled opponents. In a competitive vs game this is bad for gameplay.

Payback really only matters at the start btw.. your examples of tiger andhummel etc are not valid. If you have a tiger payback does not matter. It ONLY MATTERS IN THE FIRST 3 minutes of the game in a proper competitive game.. in a more campy game maybe a bit longer.. rest depends on the CP you have on the field.. THAT is what matters.
Well if your playing combat it may last even longer as people are just camping. Btw Hummel also is a useless unit if you know how to play this is totally useless. Also arty and mortars are useless too, I am not sure what game you are playing.. maybe combat sandbox non balanced mode. I would be first be complaining that those units are useless if you want to win a game, it will change gameplay more then payback.

Anyway payback is so small it does not matter, i'd much rather win a battle then lose units for payback. You lose the position + its so small.. and by the time you get to 3 mionutes or so.. payback is CONSTANT for both players.. unless your playing camp your spawn.
Or yet again unbalanced modes like combat or changing settings to 600000 mp

Apologies if this comes across harsh but i think you have been quite rude to other people

But sure it can be a setting =) for those that want to play this way. Maybe someone can mod it for players that want it off. Though I think its bad for game play.

Sorry mate but that wall of text is pure bs, no offense intended,

The word snowball... of course the more units you lose the more difficult is to come back, it's a strategy game, if you lose the first fight then you'll be at disadvantage a period of time and you'll let a window to your opponent to take another flag or to bank mp in order to get another unit,

I never played combat, but boy if you can't see the strategic importance of a tiger or a hummel don't know what game are you playing, if you can destroy the enemy tank then you use YOUR tank(s) to crush the enemy lines until your enemy gets another anti tank, everytime you destroy a unit you should use that "window" of weakness in your enemy to your advantage,

I play German Soldiers Mod, (it's far better than the vanilla game) and OF COURSE I don't use 80 or 120 cp, that's even more atrocious and the game FORCES YOU to suicide units in order to get new ones, (honestly, it's beyond horrid),

I want to believe you are a casual player and that's ok, but once you fully understand the mechanic of this game you'll realize that playing strategically PUNISH you and to succed you need to ABUSE the system, for example... lose half your squad at the very first of the battle is THE BEST OPTION to get the second one faster... and keeping them all alive WILL PUNISH YOU,

If that's a strategical decisio then kill me,

[Vashyo]

Payback is important for losing player to stay competitive after taking big losses at launch, how can a player overcome superior numbers and equipment otherwise with less resources past 15 minutes of gameplay?

You dont see artillery in competitive games anyways, artillery is too inefficent against a pro player that splits up his men very wide, artillery only works good against players that stack up all men in one spot.

[SudKreuz]

As in every strategy games in the world,

Making good choices and hoping (or making) your opponent to make bad ones,