No France in game?

[Meneldil]

Now I know, I'll probably get trashed by a hord of moronic trolls yelling "chseee aeting surrandering monkays lolol!", but still.

The fact that there's no France in this game seems a bit... weird? Of course, it got her arse kicked in 1940 (like the UK would have had, had it not been an island, and facing the same internal turnmoil), but until that disaster it was still regarded as:
1 - the leading Allied country, toward which every central european state looked for protection against both the Reds and the Browns.
2 - the most powerful army in the world (partly due to the Great War heritage, true).

When France finally declared war to Germany, Hitler and his staff crapped their pants, because they hoped she would wait two or three more years (the fatefull days and hours leading to the DoW were described by a German historians three years ago).

I could understand France not being originally in games like World of Tanks, as tank developpement (partly) stopped from 40 to 44, but here, in a mostly-MP RTS?
The tanks and equipement France fielded in 1940 were way better than what the Japanese had in 45, at least land-wise. And if it was really needed (though I don't think it is), you could even use the prototypes made in the late 30's to get some T-34/85, Panther or Sherman equivalents (the G1 tanks, the B2). You certainly don't have to go as far as RUSE (and its crapload of secret weapons) to make a playable France.

That being said, the fightings leading to the Fall of France in may 1940 were about as fierce and violents as the one fought by the Americans during Operation Overlord. It even featured the first real tank-battles in history.

TDLR. The reason why France's surrender was such a shock was because everyone expected her to fight back the Nazis. She had the best tanks of the time, decent planes, modern ships, trained soldiers. And despite their country's ultimate fate - caused by politics more than anything else -, French soldiers fought bravely, and gave their lives so the British army could escape and fight another day. When they ween't completely tactically outclassed, the put up a decent fight (ie. stopping the Italian advance in the Alps, and fighting alongside the Americans and Commonwealthers in 1944). Not portraying them in-game when they suffered in may 40 more casualties than the Americans during the whole summer 1944 and were the first ones to oppose Nazis' rule (albeit too late already) is another instance of "lol Hollywood writes history".

[vOid ✠]

A nation, that took actively part only 6 weeks? What about Poland, it took 5 weeks till they surrendered. To reflect the missing 5 years you want to let the devs implement even more prototypes?
Sorry, I don't see reason in this and I don't see how to realise. A never fielded prototype against a Jagdpanther? With no historical reference?

Perhaps as a hero unit, the french Foreign Legion. But why?

[Kyso4ek]

during the war on the Eastern front more french were siding with Germany, then with the USSR

WW2 was designed and prepared to make germany and ussr destroy each other for the profit of brit and usa

france and poland were meat on the grinder and not significant for this purpose. they were easily surrendered as the whole Europe was so that nothing stands between the war soviet and germany. Europe was also german war factory and france too.

[ThaHolyPope]

^Because the polish divisions didn't liberate half west europe while the american's and british were moving to germay?
Because the french didn't have a decent army left in Africa?

[Baring]

Originally posted by Arnold "Ace" Rimmer:

Why not add Vichy France? Or would the OP prefer to ignore Vichy France...

Vichy France lol..

[Angela Sangwiss]

GSM XI mod guys, you will be able to play France in 1940.

[Malus131]

We actually evacuated 140,000 French troops from Dunkirk, leaving behind thousands of our own to fight a hopeless rear guard action. Do you know what the vast, VAST majority of those French troops did? They went back to France and promptly surrendered. So please, don't talk about your soldiers nobley sacrificing themselves so the BEF could escape, because that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Zalzany]

Ok One only reason WoT has french tanks is they opened a Paris office, it was a gift to them. They ended up using expermental tanks that never existed or ones that were from after the war to fight tanks in the war... The french army was backwards and not able to fight the germans, so it would be really short, really sad campaign, as you play missions where you have to lose since there aren't enough wins for them to work with.

It would be worse then the jappenese were in the first one, they didn't like armor, didn't have modern tactics, and there tech was never updated after WWI. It would be the most one sided fight ever playing them vrs the rest of the nations. Its like when people want Poland in WWII games, except they ride the RAF Poland pilots coat tails not realizing they had good pilots but no air force or army that could stand up to the rest...

And yes Britan was saved by being an island and that is why they got to modernize their miltary to be on fighting terms with germany. See that is the key thing, there is no real fighting units minus the b1 tank wich was grossly underguned and late war antitank mesures would split open. They got beat by light tanks, by the end there were heavy and medium tanks in play, they just can't field a faction that could play against other players, and don't even enough victories to make even a campaign.

Not dissing france as a whole but their miltary leaders were bad, the B1 was epic for its time, but they didn't have enough to make a diffrence, and a few years later germans were already on a whole another level with armored units. A sherman could bounce the B1 ones shells, and a wolverine is freaking overkill for it. They just never made a WWII grade unit, there around along enough with an official miltary to make anything for the iconic units of WWII, I mean a pz IV could kill there best tank, a tiger would be overkill, heck a stug would be overkill.

[vOid ✠]

Légion des volontaires français contre le bolchévisme

Didn't want to post that as I didn't want to be sarcastic... but the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne would be a good hero unit for the axis. They fought in Moscow, went all the way to Berlin and did a quite good defensive job there.

An interesting side note, taken from wikipedia:

"General Philip Leclerc, the French divisional commander who had served under the Americans, was presented with a defiant group of 11-12 captured Charlemagne Division men.The Free French General immediately asked them why they wore a German uniform, to which one of them replied by asking the General why he wore an American one (the Free French wore modified US army uniforms). The group of French Waffen-SS men was later executed without any form of military tribunal procedure."

[Meneldil]

That's what I expected. Not a single thought-out answer and mostly a bunch of drooling morons. I'll adress the main points, only, since I don't have much time.

Originally posted by vOid68:

A nation, that took actively part only 6 weeks? What about Poland, it took 5 weeks till they surrendered. To reflect the missing 5 years you want to let the devs implement even more prototypes?
Sorry, I don't see reason in this and I don't see how to realise. A never fielded prototype against a Jagdpanther? With no historical reference?

You're actually missing the point completely.
- From 1914 to 1940, France was the main country leading what we call "the Allies". The UK were always afraid to get themselves involved anywhere, and the US withdrew from the alliance as early as the early 20's. They still hoped France and the UK would kick Hitler's ass, though.
Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary... When Nazi Germany became threatening, all those countries turned to France for protection. Not to the US, not even to the UK. Were they disappointed? Czechoslovakia was, yes. Poland, for all its bitterness, made the Allies enter a war they didn't want to enter.
Point being : in 1939 and 1940, France was the leading allied country. Period. And this game covers 1939 and 1940 as well as it covers 1944 and 1945.

- As for the prototypes, as I said, there's no need to use them. Japan is in game and had the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tanks of any belligerent. Even the latest tanks produced by the Imperial army couldn't hold a candle to the Somua-40 or the B1-bis (who were roughly equivalent of the T-34 and KV-1 in firepower and armor). All France wouldn't have are the late-war heavy tanks, IS and Tigers (but then again, except for the subpar Churchill, none of the western allies had any heavy tank either).

Originally posted by TOG | Zalzany:

Ok One only reason WoT has french tanks is they opened a Paris office, it was a gift to them. They ended up using expermental tanks that never existed or ones that were from after the war to fight tanks in the war... The french army was backwards and not able to fight the germans, so it would be really short, really sad campaign, as you play missions where you have to lose since there aren't enough wins for them to work with.

If you had half a brain, you would know that France was the leading tank-developping (and exporting) country before WWII and quickly recovered after the war (with models like the AMX13 being exported everywhere in the world and the AMX-30 being all in all a more expensive and more techy Leopard). You would also know that there are way less paper projects and prototypes in the French tree in WoT than in the American or German ones. But, that would require you to have half a brain.

Originally posted by Malus131:

We actually evacuated 140,000 French troops from Dunkirk, leaving behind thousands of our own to fight a hopeless rear guard action. Do you know what the vast, VAST majority of those French troops did? They went back to France and promptly surrendered. So please, don't talk about your soldiers nobley sacrificing themselves so the BEF could escape, because that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I suggest you read more books. Among the 50K prisonners captured at Dunkirk, 40K were French and 5K were Belgians. If you count the Poles and Dutch who fought there too, there was hardly any British left on the shores. As for the French evacuated, what happened is, the UK governement stripped them of their weapons and quickly sent them back on the mainland to fight a war that was already lost, against the opinion of De Gaulle and other senior officers already in England.
Then again, I'm sure no British soldier surrendered in 1940. They all swam back to UK, unharmed by those gentle Panzerdivisions.
And then again (again), as a friendly reminder, "you" actually evacuated none. You're just a 16 year old nationalistic troll playing videogames. You didn't fight in any war, except the pixel-ones you play on your computer.

Originally posted by Arnold "Ace" Rimmer:

After 1940, the vast majority of people fighting for Free France and De Gaulle were either partisan resistance fighters or foreign soldiers from French colonies such as Africa and Indochina.
Disgustingly, these non-white French colonial soliders, who made up most of Frances ranks were not allowed to take part in VE day.

First, colonials did not make up most of the french ranks, but about 35-40% (after the surrender, before it was 5%). And the reason why they couldn't parade after Paris was liberated was... the American army staff forbad it, as it didn't want GI to see black soldiers. Pershing asked the exact same thing in 1918 and 1919 btw, but at the time, France could tell him to go ♥♥♥♥ himself. (Not that colonials were treated fairly anyway, but still a whole lot better than black americans, and a lot worse than soldiers from the Indian subcontinent).

As for Vichy, add it if you like. The last defenders of the Reich were frenchmen. You can add them as a hero unit if you like, or add the LVF. And even the Ukrainians and Russians who fought with the Germans, I guess. It still doesn't mean that France wasn't the main allied country for the first two years of the war. Just like Vichy was real. One doesn't cancel the other out.

[HaZZarD]

I think that yes would be great to have France in MOW but to have France and many other nations you have to put in this game a Year selection mode so that you can play France vs Germany with 1940 units only or Poland vs USSR in 1939 etc.

I think certain things of real history should be left outside the game because certain things in game doesn't really matter, like Strategic decisions taken during WWII and other external factors, what matter is that in fact France in 1940 had very interesting weapons and tanks so yeah in a "What If" game I would love to be able to use France.

They would have a very interesting and unique roster


Between if you are interested in playing France check out for the upcoming GSM mod, it's gonna add many new factions and you will be able to select the year of fighting.
This is a mod with year of experience on its back so you can expect a professional work and its community is strong so you can play it in MP without problems.


-------------->GSM COMING ON AS2 <--------------


GSM Timesetting overview :

1939 : Germany, Russia, Poland
1940 : Germany, United Kingdom, Italy, Japan, France
1941 : Germany, United Kingdom, Russia, Italy, Japan, Romania, Hungary
1942 : Germany, United Kingdom, Russia, Italy, Japan, Romania, USA, Hungary
1943 : Germany, United Kingdom, Russia, Italy, Japan, Romania, USA, Hungary
1944 : Germany, United Kingdom, Russia, Japan, Romania, USA, Hungary
1945 : Germany, United Kingdom, Russia, Japan, Romania, USA

[Malus131]

Meneldil, I'd really suggest you don't make foolish presumptions about the age or anything else about people you don't know because, as has just happened, you in fact come off as an arrogant little nationalist who sees only France and knows nothing. But sure, it's not like any British soldiers surrendered, no, they just sat around drinking tea while the French fought heroically on, abandoned by the cowardly Anglais. Is that the sort of history you want to hear? I suggest you actually read up on the subject instead of letting delusions of French superioty and anglophobic sentiment cloud your judgement.

Also, do you know the reason why everyone hated De Gaulle? It's because he was a blabbermouth who couldn't be trusted with any secrets. That's why no one listened to him. For example, he went into a store to get fitted for suitable clothing for Dakar, and told the store clerk where he was going. Needless to say that little venture was cancelled due to that security breach.

[76561198047534318]

Well, one of the reasons why it would be hard to implement France in standard assault zones multiplayer format is the mainframe of the game. What counts in a multiplayer is killing tanks. France simply lacks tanks. Japan is a prime example how a faction got bent for the sake of gameplay, they added all sorts of wild tanks and an RPG that never existed. I really dislike this and would not prefer clones of Germany or a clone of any other Allied faction.

If there would be another (asymmetrical) way to play this game competitively I'd be glad to have factions such as France and Italy.

[TheBlockRatStrangler]

Heres a little fact for you, in world war 2 the French Foreign Legion was split into four pieces, one the 13th Demi-Brigade, found itself in the UK at the time of the French Armistice in 1940, was deployed to the British 8th Army in North Africa and won fame in the Battle of Bir Hakeim, another part fought for Free French forces while helping resistance members, while a large group served the Vichy government and finaly another part of the FFL fought as part of the Wehrmacht's 90th Light Infantry Division in North Africa. A battle in the Syria/Lebanon Campaign of June 1941 saw legionnaire fighting legionnaire as the 13th Demi-Brigade clashed with the 6th Foreign Infantry Regiment at Damascus in Syria.

[PeruvianCoke]

germans ♥♥♥♥ their pants ? how come they rushed through france being outnumbered and having worse equipment ? im not calling the french cowards (wouldnt be different if british or russians where in the same place as france and after all french soldiers did well in the waffen-ss which you really cant call weak or coward) and yes at the beginning of war the french had way better tanks than the german tanks that couldnt even destroy french tanks from the front, but in this game... well you say it, they had better tanks than the japanese even in 1945 but the japanese tanks in this game consist of many tanks that were prototypes and never used in combat, like some british and russian tanks all for the sake of balance which makes every country equal in power, so germany doesnt have superior tanks at any point since there are many mighty prototypes or rare tanks that never saw combat against germans

Originally posted by Meneldil:

That's what I expected. Not a single thought-out answer and mostly a bunch of drooling morons. I'll adress the main points, only, since I don't have much time.

Originally posted by vOid68:

A nation, that took actively part only 6 weeks? What about Poland, it took 5 weeks till they surrendered. To reflect the missing 5 years you want to let the devs implement even more prototypes?
Sorry, I don't see reason in this and I don't see how to realise. A never fielded prototype against a Jagdpanther? With no historical reference?

You're actually missing the point completely.
- From 1914 to 1940, France was the main country leading what we call "the Allies". The UK were always afraid to get themselves involved anywhere, and the US withdrew from the alliance as early as the early 20's. They still hoped France and the UK would kick Hitler's ass, though.
Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary... When Nazi Germany became threatening, all those countries turned to France for protection. Not to the US, not even to the UK. Were they disappointed? Czechoslovakia was, yes. Poland, for all its bitterness, made the Allies enter a war they didn't want to enter.
Point being : in 1939 and 1940, France was the leading allied country. Period. And this game covers 1939 and 1940 as well as it covers 1944 and 1945.

well... why should this game care how many "respect" all those countries gave to that country that was "supposed" to defend entire europe when it couldnt defend it self against a tiny army ? sry if i sound arrogant but so do you and as i said the developpers dont care about this, this has nothing to do with this game, its about the units, why not adding poland ? poland might not have been so "high decorated" but that doesnt matter in this game, i wouldnt like to play as a bunch of partisans and axis forces when theres already a germany, if the devs would care so much for respect and history of the countries with their positions then germany should be some superhero faction since it was a tiny country fighting against half of the world alway being outnumbered, attacked from all sides, sounds so heroic that germany shouldnt have normal units, just heroes... oh but they dont care ! neither do i

[Athena's Spear]

Originally posted by Meneldil:

Now I know, I'll probably get trashed by a hord of ♥♥♥♥♥ic trolls yelling "chseee aeting surrandering monkays lolol!", but still.

The fact that there's no France in this game seems a bit... weird? Of course, it got her ♥♥♥♥ kicked in 1940 (like the UK would have had, had it not been an island, and facing the same internal turnmoil), but until that disaster it was still regarded as:
1 - the leading Allied country, toward which every central european state looked for protection against both the Reds and the Browns.
2 - the most powerful army in the world (partly due to the Great War heritage, true).

When France finally declared war to Germany, Hitler and his staff crapped their pants, because they hoped she would wait two or three more years (the fatefull days and hours leading to the DoW were described by a German historians three years ago).

I could understand France not being originally in games like World of Tanks, as tank developpement (partly) stopped from 40 to 44, but here, in a mostly-MP RTS?
The tanks and equipement France fielded in 1940 were way better than what the Japanese had in 45, at least land-wise. And if it was really needed (though I don't think it is), you could even use the prototypes made in the late 30's to get some T-34/85, Panther or Sherman equivalents (the G1 tanks, the B2). You certainly don't have to go as far as RUSE (and its crapload of secret weapons) to make a playable France.

That being said, the fightings leading to the Fall of France in may 1940 were about as fierce and violents as the one fought by the Americans during Operation Overlord. It even featured the first real tank-battles in history.

TDLR. The reason why France's surrender was such a shock was because everyone expected her to fight back the Nazis. She had the best tanks of the time, decent planes, modern ships, trained soldiers. And despite their country's ultimate fate - caused by politics more than anything else -, French soldiers fought bravely, and gave their lives so the British army could escape and fight another day. When they ween't completely tactically outclassed, the put up a decent fight (ie. stopping the Italian advance in the Alps, and fighting alongside the Americans and Commonwealthers in 1944). Not portraying them in-game when they suffered in may 40 more casualties than the Americans during the whole summer 1944 and were the first ones to oppose Nazis' rule (albeit too late already) is another instance of "lol Hollywood writes history".

Where was the french participation in the counter attack at Arras? You decided not to (cowardice) and left us on our own, yet we still managed to delay the 7th Panzer division.

You should accept that the french army of 1940 was although big it was lead by Buffoons and had a tactical doctrine worthy that was from ww1.

Dont worry though so long as half you country collaborates with Nazi's Im sure all was fine. (Just to be clear do you want the french for the allies or the vichy french for the axis?)