No Homeworld Cataclysm? Here's what i found.

[Dragonborn]

The Homeworld franchise would definitely be incomplete without the Cataclysm chapter which was a completely separate release, and not an add-on which required the base game. I still have my original boxed copy of Homeworld Cataclysm and i can't stress enough on the quality of the game, especially at the time of release. There was simply nothing like it back then and even today, decades later, i have not been able to find another space RTS game that came even close to the atmosphere that Homeworld created with his amazing soundtrack and distinctly gorgeous and original cut-scenes.

For those who don't know or might not remember, here is the release dates for all Homeworld games in the series:
1. Homeworld - First Released Aug 31, 1999
2. Homeworld: Cataclysm - First Released Sep 7, 2000
3. Homeworld 2 - First Released Sep 16, 2003

Now, there is a significant difference between Homeworld Cataclysm and the other 2 games since there are new ships and different (amazing!) story in Cataclysm which should not be missed.

I went ecstatic when i just read about Homeworld being re-released after 15 years since it's original release. But the missing of Homeworld Cataclysm from the collection is a HUGE disappointment since the re-release is incomplete.

From the research i've done by reading through all articles and comments about the remastered version, it seems like Cataclysm's development was outsourced to another company called Barking Dog Studios which is no longer in business and apparently the source code was "lost"?? Surely, the code must still be preserved in a backup disc or hard-drive sitting in a cardboard box in one of the developer's garage.

What are you doing, Gearbox?! I will pay more for the whole collection, so bring it back and release Cataclysm as a DLC or in a separate remastered release if that's what you need to do!

Gearbox is now working on the next Homeworld game, titled "Shipbreakers" so let's hope they do the series justice by acquiring and re-releasing Cataclysm as a bonus when the next game ships.

[Derangel]

As has been stated by people in the five billion other threads on the topic there is no source code for Cataclysm, it was lost. Gearbox and Blackbird would have to remake the game pretty much from the ground up.

As for Barking Dog, they were bought by Rockstar and became Rockstar Vancouver.

[johncage]

the next homeworld game is developed by blackbird interaction. gearbox is doing homeworld 3.

and you could do some simply reading on the first page to realize catacylsm is lost forever, so stop aksing it. everything about it was sub par. good riddance

[rain]

How did they lost it? It's like losing your baby!

[johncage]

they lost it becaue barking dog studios was disorganized and sucked, that's why they're part of rockstar now. and relic didn't really care to get it from them because they felt it wasn't a big loss.

[rain]

So sad, I loved Cataclysm, it might not be the strongest of the series but is not really a collection if you're missing a piece. Well, at least Cataclysm runs in Windows 7, I still have the disk!

[Derangel]

Originally posted by Rain:

How did they lost it? It's like losing your baby!

Not really. Stuff happens. Hard drives get reformatted, they die, they get tossed out, removed and misplaced, etc. If there were backups it's likely they were on tape, which was still the primary way businesses did on-site backups in the early 2000s, which don't last forever and can also be damaged or lost. It's possible that during the buy out, during a move, or when people quit/got fired that some random developer or studio exec ended up with it in their garage and forgot about it. Either way the source code didn't travel with the source code for the other two games and barring some miraculous discovery it's gone forever.

[Dragonborn]

Originally posted by Derangel:

As has been stated by people in the five billion other threads on the topic there is no source code for Cataclysm, it was lost. Gearbox and Blackbird would have to remake the game pretty much from the ground up.

As for Barking Dog, they were bought by Rockstar and became Rockstar Vancouver.

Then... Wait for it... Why not ask Rockstar Vancouver? Honestly, the thing about "source code being lost" is just a lazy lie, since Homeworld Cataclysm is no little indie game - it was a major and successful release of a highly acclaimed title in the Homeworld franchise! It doesn't take much to read between the lines and realize that Gearbox just didn't want to spend the extra money and time to acquire the Cataclysm source code and remaster it. In a way, it does make sense since it's a re-release of a game more than a decade old and Gearbox can't be sure if the remastered game will sell enough copies to cover the costs of development and is likely not expecting to make millions of dollars out of it, depending if the original fanbase is still alive or will still bother to buy it again for that matter. I think it all came down to a limited budget, so Cataclysm was dropped. If we think about it, the upcoming release of Homeworld 3: Shipbreakers is most likely the reason why the re-release of the classic games was made in the first place. I mean, why wait now to release a remastered version? I'd say, it's simple marketing to rally the fans for the next big title in the franchise... Probably coming at the end of 2015 or sometime next year.

[Derangel]

Originally posted by Dragonborn:

Originally posted by Derangel:

As has been stated by people in the five billion other threads on the topic there is no source code for Cataclysm, it was lost. Gearbox and Blackbird would have to remake the game pretty much from the ground up.

As for Barking Dog, they were bought by Rockstar and became Rockstar Vancouver.

Then... Wait for it... Why not ask Rockstar Vancouver? Honestly, the thing about "source code being lost" is just a lazy lie, since Homeworld Cataclysm is no little indie game - it was a major and successful release of a highly acclaimed title in the Homeworld franchise! It doesn't take much to read between the lines and realize that Gearbox just didn't want to spend the extra money to acquire the Cataclysm source code. In a way, it might make sense since it's a re-release of a game more than a decade old and Gearbox can't be sure if the game will sell and if the original fanbase is still alive or will still bother to buy it again for that matter. I think it all came down to a limited budget, so Cataclysm was dropped. If we think about it, the upcoming release of Homeworld 3: Shipbreakers is most likely the reason why the re-release of the classic games was made in the first place. I mean, why wait now to release a remastered version? I'd say, it's simple marketing to rally the fans for the next big title in the franchise... Probably coming at the end of 2015 or sometime next year.

The chances that it's somewhere at Rockstar Vancouver are slim. Most companies aren't going to hang on to source code for games they don't own and even if it exists on some random tape backup in their archives chances are no one would even know. It's not like it would exist on Rockstar's servers at this point. You act like this is the first time source code has been lost to a game. It's not remotely the first. Nor is this even the biggest example of it. ♥♥♥♥ happens, source code gets lost for one of hundreds of reasons. If it wasn't destroyed or thrown out during the turmoil involved in being purchased, renamed, and having a crap load of people leaving the studio then most likely it's burried in someone's garage, basement, or attic forgotten. That of course assumes the source code was actually stored at Barking Mad when the game was finished. It could have been on tape or a hard drive in Sierra's archives and been lost for one reason or another during their many issues over the years.

[Dragonborn]

Originally posted by Derangel:

Originally posted by Dragonborn:

Then... Wait for it... Why not ask Rockstar Vancouver? Honestly, the thing about "source code being lost" is just a lazy lie, since Homeworld Cataclysm is no little indie game - it was a major and successful release of a highly acclaimed title in the Homeworld franchise! It doesn't take much to read between the lines and realize that Gearbox just didn't want to spend the extra money to acquire the Cataclysm source code. In a way, it might make sense since it's a re-release of a game more than a decade old and Gearbox can't be sure if the game will sell and if the original fanbase is still alive or will still bother to buy it again for that matter. I think it all came down to a limited budget, so Cataclysm was dropped. If we think about it, the upcoming release of Homeworld 3: Shipbreakers is most likely the reason why the re-release of the classic games was made in the first place. I mean, why wait now to release a remastered version? I'd say, it's simple marketing to rally the fans for the next big title in the franchise... Probably coming at the end of 2015 or sometime next year.

The chances that it's somewhere at Rockstar Vancouver are slim. Most companies aren't going to hang on to source code for games they don't own and even if it exists on some random tape backup in their archives chances are no one would even know. It's not like it would exist on Rockstar's servers at this point. You act like this is the first time source code has been lost to a game. It's not remotely the first. Nor is this even the biggest example of it. ♥♥♥♥ happens, source code gets lost for one of hundreds of reasons.

Not if Gearbox puts out a price on that source code. I can't imagine that out of the hundreds of employees who worked on Homeworld Cataclysm, not a single one of them has retained a backup of the source code. The original developers of Homeworld stuck together through a lot and more than a decade later, they still listen to the fans on the HW modders forums and released a remastered version which is clearly proof of their dedication and love for this franchise. So... I very highly doubt that a backup is unavailable. Just put a price tag on it and it will show up like magic. Gearbox also probably didn't want to wait any longer than necessary to release the remastered version - if the developers had to redo Cataclysm, we would probably be looking at a December 2015 release for this remastered title instead of February 2015.

[Derangel]

Originally posted by Dragonborn:

Originally posted by Derangel:

The chances that it's somewhere at Rockstar Vancouver are slim. Most companies aren't going to hang on to source code for games they don't own and even if it exists on some random tape backup in their archives chances are no one would even know. It's not like it would exist on Rockstar's servers at this point. You act like this is the first time source code has been lost to a game. It's not remotely the first. Nor is this even the biggest example of it. ♥♥♥♥ happens, source code gets lost for one of hundreds of reasons.

Not if Gearbox puts out a price on that source code. I can't imagine that out of the hundreds of employees who worked on Homeworld Cataclysm, not a single one of them has retained a backup of the source code. The original developers of Homeworld stuck together through a lot and more than a decade later, they still listen to the fans on the HW modders forums and released a remastered version which is clearly proof of their dedication and love for this franchise. So... I very highly doubt that a backup is unavailable. Just put a price tag on it and it will show up like magic. Gearbox probably didn't want to wait any longer than necessary to release the remastered version - if the developers had to redo Cataclysm, we would probably be looking at a December 2015 release for this remastered title instead of February 2015.

I edited my post to reflect that someone that worked on it could have it. That said, it would take a long time to get a hold of every single person that worked at the studio at the time and ask them to look through all of their stuff and find it. Apparently the all the audio assets are still avalible so that's a big plus. Barring it turning up somewhere for all intents and purposes the source code is gone. It might be somewhere or it might be lost forever. That is sadly true of many games. Some old games still have source code easily accessable to the owners of the IP, others don't. Unfortunately preserving the source code and history of the medium is not something everyone thinks of. Some studios are very careful with that stuff and want to keep it around forever. Others just don't care, don't think about it, or are required to hand it over when they're simply an outside studio doing a job. A great example of a big company completely screwing up with archiving is Sega. Sega does not have source code for a ton of it's old arcade titles or really a lot of old titles in general.

[onyhow]

Originally posted by Dragonborn:

From the research i've done by reading through all articles and comments about the remastered version, it seems like Cataclysm's development was outsourced to another company called Barking Dog Studios which is no longer in business and apparently the source code was "lost"?? Surely, the code must still be preserved in a backup disc or hard-drive sitting in a cardboard box in one of the developer's garage.

You must not have heard of the Bubble Bobble[en.wikipedia.org] case then. If the company that develop the main itself can lose its source...I can't even think of different company that make spin-off game wouldn't do that...

[Aaaaa!]

So HW:Cataclysm lost in space, at least for the time being.

[ORCACommander]

Cataclysm is lost on 2 fronts. The hardware the source code was stored on is literally missing presumed destroyed

Cataclysm is somehow an independent license of the homeworld franchise so it was NOT part of the thq auction so gearbox has no rights to it at all,

[Dragonborn]

Whether Cataclysm was part of the deal or not, whether it was developed by the original studio or not, what matters is that the same original developers worked on it and it definitely shows in the flow of the game coming from Homeworld 1 and before you move on to Homeworld 2. You could compare it to a Homeworld 1.5 but to me, it was a vast improvement over Homeworld 1, not just in terms of graphics but gameplay as well. Homeworld 2 actually retained a lot of Cataclysm's new features and improved in other areas as well. Now, for what really matters - us, gamers - we are definitely missing out here with the absence of Cataclysm in the remastered release.

[Derangel]

Originally posted by ORCACommander:

Cataclysm is somehow an independent license of the homeworld franchise so it was NOT part of the thq auction so gearbox has no rights to it at all,

Hmm. That presents an interesting point. Gearbox got the rights from the THQ bankruptcy auction. Presumably those rights came from Relic. Since Relic didn't develop Cataclysm this suddenly becomes a giant mess. THQ either bought the IP rights when they bought Relic or Relic owned the rights all the time but had some agreement with Sierra that lead to Cataclysm. Either way that means the rights to Catclysm probably stayed with Sierra, who is owned by Activision. That of course assumes that some rights weren't also retained by Barking Mad and those rights would have been folded into Rockstar when the studio was purchased.