Why all the hate from "Hardcore Homeworld" fans?

[Larry]

I mean, you're not being objective at all.

You've got "hardcore" fans arguing about the multiplayer that was clearly advertised as not being anywhere near finished as soon as the game was available for sale. These complaints range from general bugs, crashes and balance issues which are to be expected when it's so clearly not finished and definitely in a beta state as was conveyed to you very clearly in every single video, marketing page, review and from the developers themselves every single time the multiplayer was brought up. "It's going to be in beta."

This is what I don't get: You're a hardcore fan of the series but you're bashing a remastered version of it that's trying to inject new blood into the franchise in order to keep it afloat by changing outdated bits and pieces within the game itself for the better? The fuel mechanic for instance. This wasn't fun, it was a nuisance and very tedious as was collecting resources after the mission was over but they fixed that in HW1 and HW2 remastered(At least moving mechanics from HM2 to HM1). Was this a bad idea? Nope. It was god sent when I realised halfway through the game I didn't need to spend 30+ minutes mining every single asteroid.

Then you've all sorts of fluff about small little things that aren't the exact same as in HW1. You even have people complaining about the HW Remastered UI which blows my mind. The UI in the original version just does not stand the test of time in the slightest so why complain about this? They streamlined it and made it better. They delivered every single improvement made in Homeworld 2 to Homeworld which is a good thing. It might not be the exact game with better graphics but they tried and did do a good job at updating the game for modern audiences.

If you're such big fans of the game and have been for years then you should be old enough and mature enough to realise the changes were good for the most part. They updated a 15 year old game and brought it to a new generation. The 500k of you who bought the original game won't nearly be enough to ensure this IP survives in the modern day so quit your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and go play the originals if you're so pissed about the remastered version of Homeworld. They did actually give you that option as well as updating them for modern operating systems and hardware.

Yeah, there's bugs... There's quite a few bugs but they're not progression blockers. There's autosave bugs which are a ♥♥♥♥♥ but you can just restart the mission normally. The game itself runs, units work and take damage. There's a few issues here and there but nothing to condemn the game over. Some people have issues with launching the game and it's to be expected. This happens in every single game and has happened since before the internet you just didn't hear about it then because people who bought the game and couldn't run it for whatever reason hadn't the world wide web to ♥♥♥♥♥ to so they either sighed and tried working around it or they brought the game back for a refund.

There's issues, yeah, but if you're a homeworld fan you're old enough and mature enough to know how things work in the games industry and how not everything is perfect on release. A lot of the issues would be fixed in a single patch so why all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?

It's Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition all over again, people ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about a great game brought to a modern audience with quality of life improvements that helped fund other greats and bring them back such as Baldur's Gate 2, Icewindale and reignite interest in the genre as a whole(Two high profile kickstart games such as Planescape: Tides of Nemunera and Pillars of Eternity thanks primarily due to Enhanced Editions of Baldur's Gate!).

Give it a rest, lads.

[hurtnn]

I agree thats it's more disappointment than hate really along with a touch of feeling cheated somewhat. Did their qa testing include responses from any of the numerous hardcore fans that would have provided quality feedback for free? I can't see how that is possible unless they just totally ignored them. It displays a lack of either caring or familiarity with the original to deliver it no matter what...if that is truly what they were after here. Which I'm forced to believe was not the case.

As far as the UI goes, sure the original is dated and a revamp was expected and in reality wouldnt probably matter as much since it was played with hotkeys. However, the UI seems amateurish. I mean just a 1 min google of something vague like "spacegame ui" and you will see a ton of examples that look and feel much better and more compact that could have been referenced.

I'm all for bringing this back, but not in this way. As I stated in other posts this should have been H2 Remastered and left H1 out of the picture until they had the resources to put forth the effort that the title deserved.

[Foocubus]

Escrito originalmente por Cake. Strawberry:

The changes are not good they completely destroyed HW1s gameplay and neutered the classic versions.

No they did not "completely destroy" it. Calm the eff down.

The main reason why they used a single engine for both versions is so that all HW1 and HW2 factions can fight each other directly in skirmish or multiplayer. This is important since multiplayer (and skirmishes to a lesser extent) are all that will keep the game active once everyone passes the campaigns within the next week or two.

The changes to HW1 are pretty minor. Some are good, like getting rid of fuel. Some are bad, like getting rid of collision-detection-based shots in favor of RNG-based attacks. But nobody completely new to the series (i.e. the majority of players, let's face it) will even notice, let alone complain. The only people QQing here today are stubborn "they changed it, now it sucks" guys who spend their free time reminiscing about the good ol' days of computer gaming when not yelling at kids to get off their damn lawns.

Because let's face it, original versions of these games just don't hold up. (It's why HD or Remastered versions of old games are the rage lately.) Don't believe me? The originals are right there for you to play! Can't stand that fuel was eliminated from the game? HW1 Classic is there for you to play right this instant! Oh and guess what, it was the original HW devs who got rid of fuel in HW2 because they knew it sucked, even way back in the day.

But nooooo. Even though they included the original versions of the games, some forum trolls STILL have to ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan. Jesus Christ.

[won_tuco]

I can only speak for me, but I think the greatest disappointment of Homeworld 1 Remastered is that it isn't Homeworld 1 Remastered. It's Homeworld 2 Remastered with Homeworld 1 ships in it.
If I'd heard all this time that they were going to do Homeworld 2 Remastered and they might port the HW1 ships in it, I wouldn't have been expecting so much and probably wouldn't have bought it. I love HW1, HW2 just never really worked for me so much.

[Grimmrog_SIG]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Larry:

Escrito originalmente por Grimmrog_SIG:

If you think changes were good, you have pprobably not played HW 1 at all, or not much, differences are big and vary from visuals to entirely different game designs.

People wanted a graphically enhanced HW1, and they did not get that.

And the new UI is eyecandy, the old UI was faster to control tbh, you did not had to swap through all ship categories to build ships, all ships were in one screen and you could select them to build. So you are probably at this point too mad to see the reality.

You see, think of it from a new comers point of view: Is this a good version to get into Homeworld? Yes, it is. It's a better version to get into than Homeworld Classic because it's updated and less tedious. While these tedious game mechanics may have been good in the day and might make the game better you need to ask if they're good in this day and age and if they translate well into a modern market? They don't.

Being a fan das not mean to swallow everything of an IP, especially when you can see it degrading or losing the real good features.

Fuel was a tactical aspect, probably annoying for the todays gamer after all this casualisation within the gaming industry.

Fuel was a tedious aspect that was phased out even in Homeworld 2. The developers knew it back in 2003 and developers these days know mechanics like that do not make games fun or interesting. This is a fact.

And all the things are not little, if you think they are little, it just indicates even more that you probably not really have played HW1 past the campaign

And not everything in HW 2 was an improvement.

HW 2 was made because of the success of HW 1 but it was not as good as HW 1.

Apples and oranges. You're completely bias and bashing a game in it's entirity because you don't agree with something. You're incapable of seeing things from other's point of view if this is your stance on the matter.

And no this buged at release thing did not happened in every game before the internet I bought many single player titles in my Life that worked bug free without ever having required a patch. But today i realyl wonder a lot what magic happened bakc in the days that games ran without all these issues, because people couldn't simply patch a game due to the lack of the internet.

You talk a lot, but nothing of this even has substance yet you are trying to tell us something about maturity in a post full of censored words?

Again: "I" bought many single player titles that worked without ever having a patch. Just because you didn't have issues didn't mean some of the hundreds of thousands who bought games back then didn't. There's always people who have issues but back then they had no way to complain.

Also, I talk a lot? No substance? Full of censored words? There's one word that's censored. ONE word that's censored and it's from a quote. You obviously either skimmed through what I posted or didn't read anything at all.

Op said, it happened in every single game, which then is already untrue when just one counterexample exists.

And honstly? No would not recommend the game that much in the state it is, it is a braindead "tank rush" in space. So yes the mass of low skill causalgame consumers may like it, but as a game itself its not good anymore. But would Homeworld back in the days have been like this it would not have been that successful.

Weird that you people are happy with half baked results, and no wonder why the gaming industry acts like this and hardly cares about quality if you all just happily buy anything no matter what crappy quality they deliver.

[Thaeos]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Larry:

I mean, you're not being objective at all.

...

Give it a rest, lads.

How can the UI have been streamlined? It was MORE streamlined/simple in the first one. They have removed functionality.

Also, fighter formations and fight tactics are completely broken making them far less effective. Corvettes pretty much are useless now because of the changed flight patterns for them, heavy corvettes for example half the time only one of their turrets is actually shooting at anything.

The new graphics etc are great, actual bugs will be fixed I'm sure, but other things as above are fundamental changes that mean it's not actually Homeworld you're playing, but HW2 with a HW1 flavour. It's disappointing.

[Sammi79]

Another thing I've noticed that after the initial flood of problems getting the game running etc,

new players are staring to show up with threads about those classic missions how the F do I get through this? it's insane!!! kind of thing. It's funny because I remember those exact same feelings.

[Grimmrog_SIG]

Escrito originalmente por phlegm573:

Escrito originalmente por Cake. Strawberry:

The changes are not good they completely destroyed HW1s gameplay and neutered the classic versions.

No they did not "completely destroy" it. Calm the eff down.

The main reason why they used a single engine for both versions is so that all HW1 and HW2 factions can fight each other directly in skirmish or multiplayer. This is important since multiplayer (and skirmishes to a lesser extent) are all that will keep the game active once everyone passes the campaigns within the next week or two.

The changes to HW1 are pretty minor. Some are good, like getting rid of fuel. Some are bad, like getting rid of collision-detection-based shots in favor of RNG-based attacks. But nobody completely new to the series (i.e. the majority of players, let's face it) will even notice, let alone complain. The only people QQing here today are stubborn "they changed it, now it sucks" guys who spend their free time reminiscing about the good ol' days of computer gaming when not yelling at kids to get off their damn lawns.

Because let's face it, original versions of these games just don't hold up. (It's why HD or Remastered versions of old games are the rage lately.) Don't believe me? The originals are right there for you to play! Can't stand that fuel was eliminated from the game? HW1 Classic is there for you to play right this instant! Oh and guess what, it was the original HW devs who got rid of fuel in HW2 because they knew it sucked, even way back in the day.

But nooooo. Even though they included the original versions of the games, some forum trolls STILL have to ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan. Jesus Christ.

the changes are NOT MINOR, have you even palyed both? play a match in classsic, play one inremastered. the entire game plays different, frigates plop like they were made of paper, hevy cruisers are build in no time. Time was a true ressource in HW 1, the remake is just so much difference.

We are nto stubborn, but a individual with brain should see what things have improved and what not, and most things were not an improvement.

The only reason for many "old" games gettign remasterred are two things: they do not support modern OS because these aren't compatible with games needing old platforms.
And graphics were made for 800x600 or even less, which nowdays on big screens is not really playable at all.

Many people want jsut 2 things: graphics working with todays screens and and running on current OS. "devs got rid of fuel because they know it sucked" lol do we say this now in every game when devs have the gerat idea to not use a feature anymore even if it was great? or when they replaced it with a worse one?
Maybe we should ask the HoMM playerbase where the devs "got rid of many features because the sucked" whcih was just leading in the most catastrophic result of the entire games series? Or what about the Black and white palyerbase? Guess they were very happy about the devs getting rid of all the "sucking features" devs remove what they think is better, or they sometimes remove things bcause of technical restrictions or time preasure. but this does not mean its better.

it's cute to see how you try to pull arguments for yourself not even knowing how some of you generalisations are nonsense.

[Volcarona]

Honestly most of the changes were probably made for the sole purpose of making this game more new player friendly. That however alienates old time fans. HW1 remastered has issues but the way some people are acting it is like they think those issues are game breaking and for some they do think that. The 2 worst ones are the broken formation system and no drag select for salvage. However they are mostly just annoying changes not game breaking ones at least in my opinion I can see why some are upset though.

Still I really wish they had kept the Taidan/Kushan fleet choice the Taidan ships are better looking.

[Sammi79]

Well I guess I am going to be unpopular but my several cents is as follows.

The UI in the first game (where you had to switch to a build/research screen) was one of my biggest irritations. Sure it was nice building/researching everything at once, but the reality is it made these layers of the strategy paper thin.

The formations, although very pretty and tactically very usefull in the first game were micro intensive and a pain ultimately for large skirmishes. The camera control and the distinction between focused (and moving) and unfocused view not to mention visual and sensor map with all the available rotation and zoom does not make for a comfortable micro management experience. The view cannot be compromised. The micro management can, and was for the second game. That said, I would like heavy/multi turret corvettes and bombers to hold their formations significantly more than they tend to. It's a very minor gripe though.

The gun sounds? well.. that does grate on me a bit. It's cosmetic and minor, and no doubt moddable.

Fuel? I am very glad to be rid of it. Cataclysm never had it either. have it for everything (an extra layer that does not add to the game IMHO) or none at all.

RNG factor in ballistic calculation. This for me is a huge plus. a 100% hit under a ceratin range regardless of whether the target (or the attacker) is moving fast or stationary is not realistic to me. A degree of randomisation is a good thing when it can be adjusted depending on the condition (combined velocity etc.) It also highlights the problem with HW1 formation dependency. It's all fiction of course, but strike craft strength is their speed and maneuverability not their firepower or armour. A stationary sphere formation is just... stupid. Basic point defence should annihilate a stationary light armoured target.

Formations are for heavies, whose maneuverabilty is barely compromised but lateral support and combined firepower makes it worth doing. Strike craft should be in pairs during a dogfight, and no more.

I'm biased of course and I know it. HW2 was always a superior game for me, even if it truthfully never quite captured the high drama of the first incarnation. I always felt it was a sort of remake rather than a continuation, with the mechnics developed but the story sort of dull.

Anyway, the point is this: the game is every bit as good for new players, and it is better for some old players like me. The Homeworld saga WILL continue, which is what we all wanted. Oh, and there are plenty of people struggling to simply get the game running in the first instance as with all modern PC games of any depth, so I personally would appreciate it if you'd spend a little time trying to help them if you can, rather than griping about your missed expectations.

Cheers.

[DarSin]

Escrito originalmente por Sammi79:

Well I guess I am going to be unpopular but my several cents is as follows.

The UI in the first game (where you had to switch to a build/research screen) was one of my biggest irritations. Sure it was nice building/researching everything at once, but the reality is it made these layers of the strategy paper thin.

The formations, although very pretty and tactically very usefull in the first game were micro intensive and a pain ultimately for large skirmishes. The camera control and the distinction between focused (and moving) and unfocused view not to mention visual and sensor map with all the available rotation and zoom does not make for a comfortable micro management experience. The view cannot be compromised. The micro management can, and was for the second game. That said, I would like heavy/multi turret corvettes and bombers to hold theior formations significantly more than they tend to. It's a very minor gripe though.

The gun sounds? well.. that does grate on me a bit. It's cosmetic and minor, and no doubt moddable.

Fuel? I am very glad to be rid of it. Cataclysm never had it either. have it for everything (an extra layer that does not add to the game IMHO) or none at all.

RNG factor in ballistic calculation. This for me is a huge plus. a 100% hit under a ceratin range reagardless of whether the target (or the attacker) is moving fast or stationary is not realistic to me. A degree of randomisation is a good thing when it can be adjusted depending on the condition (combined velocity etc.) It also highlights the problem with HW1 formation dependency. It's all fiction of course, but strike craft strength is their speed and maneuverability not their firepower or armour. A stationary sphere formation is just... stupid. Basic point defence should annihilate a stationary light armoured target.

Formations are for heavies, whose maneuverabilty is barely compromised but lateral support and combined firepower makes it worth doing. Strike craft should be in pairs during a dogfight, and no more.

I'm biased of course and I know it. HW2 was always a superior game for me, even if it truthfully never quite captured the high drama of the first incarnation. I always felt it was a sort of remake rather than a continuation, with the mechnics developed but the story sort of dull.

Anyway, the point is this: the game is every bit as good for new players, and it is better for some old players like me. The Homeworld saga WILL continue, which is what we all wanted. Oh, and there are plenty of people struggling to simply get the game running in the first instance as with all modern PC games of any depth, so I personally would appreciate it if you'd spend a little time trying to help them if you can, rather than griping about your missed expectations.

Cheers.

I'm gonna take the lazy man route and just go ahead and quote this and aprove with it.

[Volcarona]

Escrito originalmente por Sammi79:

Well I guess I am going to be unpopular but my several cents is as follows.

The UI in the first game (where you had to switch to a build/research screen) was one of my biggest irritations. Sure it was nice building/researching everything at once, but the reality is it made these layers of the strategy paper thin.

The formations, although very pretty and tactically very usefull in the first game were micro intensive and a pain ultimately for large skirmishes. The camera control and the distinction between focused (and moving) and unfocused view not to mention visual and sensor map with all the available rotation and zoom does not make for a comfortable micro management experience. The view cannot be compromised. The micro management can, and was for the second game. That said, I would like heavy/multi turret corvettes and bombers to hold theior formations significantly more than they tend to. It's a very minor gripe though.

The gun sounds? well.. that does grate on me a bit. It's cosmetic and minor, and no doubt moddable.

Fuel? I am very glad to be rid of it. Cataclysm never had it either. have it for everything (an extra layer that does not add to the game IMHO) or none at all.

RNG factor in ballistic calculation. This for me is a huge plus. a 100% hit under a ceratin range reagardless of whether the target (or the attacker) is moving fast or stationary is not realistic to me. A degree of randomisation is a good thing when it can be adjusted depending on the condition (combined velocity etc.) It also highlights the problem with HW1 formation dependency. It's all fiction of course, but strike craft strength is their speed and maneuverability not their firepower or armour. A stationary sphere formation is just... stupid. Basic point defence should annihilate a stationary light armoured target.

Formations are for heavies, whose maneuverabilty is barely compromised but lateral support and combined firepower makes it worth doing. Strike craft should be in pairs during a dogfight, and no more.

I'm biased of course and I know it. HW2 was always a superior game for me, even if it truthfully never quite captured the high drama of the first incarnation. I always felt it was a sort of remake rather than a continuation, with the mechnics developed but the story sort of dull.

Anyway, the point is this: the game is every bit as good for new players, and it is better for some old players like me. The Homeworld saga WILL continue, which is what we all wanted. Oh, and there are plenty of people struggling to simply get the game running in the first instance as with all modern PC games of any depth, so I personally would appreciate it if you'd spend a little time trying to help them if you can, rather than griping about your missed expectations.

Cheers.

Exactly My point but better said these changes were made to try and make homeworld less Noob unfriendly which was what hurt it in the first place.

[screamingpalm]

Escrito originalmente por phlegm573:

Because let's face it, original versions of these games just don't hold up. (It's why HD or Remastered versions of old games are the rage lately.) Don't believe me? The originals are right there for you to play! Can't stand that fuel was eliminated from the game? HW1 Classic is there for you to play right this instant! Oh and guess what, it was the original HW devs who got rid of fuel in HW2 because they knew it sucked, even way back in the day.

This actually brings me to a question. Can you play the Classic versions in multiplayer or only the Remix?
If I buy, it would most likely be for the Classic versions and I don't care about graphics personally- especially if the gameplay is better in the originals. Frankly, it doesn't make sense why they would do this to the game that won all the awards- HW1- stealing GOTY away from my precious SMAC even. Seems backwards.
Cheers!

[TheBleachDoctor]

Escrito originalmente por Sammi79:

Well I guess I am going to be unpopular but my several cents is as follows.

The UI in the first game (where you had to switch to a build/research screen) was one of my biggest irritations. Sure it was nice building/researching everything at once, but the reality is it made these layers of the strategy paper thin.

The formations, although very pretty and tactically very usefull in the first game were micro intensive and a pain ultimately for large skirmishes. The camera control and the distinction between focused (and moving) and unfocused view not to mention visual and sensor map with all the available rotation and zoom does not make for a comfortable micro management experience. The view cannot be compromised. The micro management can, and was for the second game. That said, I would like heavy/multi turret corvettes and bombers to hold their formations significantly more than they tend to. It's a very minor gripe though.

The gun sounds? well.. that does grate on me a bit. It's cosmetic and minor, and no doubt moddable.

Fuel? I am very glad to be rid of it. Cataclysm never had it either. have it for everything (an extra layer that does not add to the game IMHO) or none at all.

RNG factor in ballistic calculation. This for me is a huge plus. a 100% hit under a ceratin range regardless of whether the target (or the attacker) is moving fast or stationary is not realistic to me. A degree of randomisation is a good thing when it can be adjusted depending on the condition (combined velocity etc.) It also highlights the problem with HW1 formation dependency. It's all fiction of course, but strike craft strength is their speed and maneuverability not their firepower or armour. A stationary sphere formation is just... stupid. Basic point defence should annihilate a stationary light armoured target.

Formations are for heavies, whose maneuverabilty is barely compromised but lateral support and combined firepower makes it worth doing. Strike craft should be in pairs during a dogfight, and no more.

I'm biased of course and I know it. HW2 was always a superior game for me, even if it truthfully never quite captured the high drama of the first incarnation. I always felt it was a sort of remake rather than a continuation, with the mechnics developed but the story sort of dull.

Anyway, the point is this: the game is every bit as good for new players, and it is better for some old players like me. The Homeworld saga WILL continue, which is what we all wanted. Oh, and there are plenty of people struggling to simply get the game running in the first instance as with all modern PC games of any depth, so I personally would appreciate it if you'd spend a little time trying to help them if you can, rather than griping about your missed expectations.

Cheers.

Have an internet cookie.

[hurtnn]

"The formations, although very pretty and tactically very usefull in the first game were micro intensive and a pain ultimately for large skirmishes. The camera control and the distinction between focused (and moving) and unfocused view not to mention visual and sensor map with all the available rotation and zoom does not make for a comfortable micro management experience. The view cannot be compromised. "

That's odd as I don't remember it being a problem at all utilizing hotkeys along with timing. ctrl-(x) then 1 or 2 function keys depending upon the tactics required. Groups were not meant to be at focal point to issue commands so camera view wasn't even a factor. Maybe I'm missing something here...

The only pain in large skirmishes I recall was the vid lag generated by the sheer number of ships that at least on the last mission caused freezing\stuttering from what I remember.

[T-Bone Biggins]

Old time player here. The fact that aggressive/defensive tactics don't seem to do much of anything and that formations do not work at all are extremely frustrating. I'm enjoying my time for the most part but this is why I hesitated to pre-order until the very last week, I hate Gearbox for all their screwups with Borderlands 2 and Aliens CM and I knew, KNEW mind you, that they are a bad dev. I just told myself that they can't screw this up for they are permanately in a bad spot. Yet they managed to do mediocre at best with this whole remake. This is just the final time I buy any product of their outside of a 50% or more sale. I at least avoided more than a few games and DLC from them and will continue to do so.