When will brawler/warrior/bruiser not be immortal?

[HEX: SOLO QUEUE]

Bellona is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid, so is Hercules, so is Amaterasu, so is Achilles, etc. Mage pen got nerfed and yet bruisers don't even have to build half a tank to just dance around as your spitballs do nothing with full pen builds and they can do comparable DPS.

[BobTheYak]

I think one thing that may not solve everything but could help a little bit is reducing the heal from basic attacking with the level 20 version of the Death's Toll starter (Death's Embrace I think it is).

Death's Toll is fine, maybe don't touch that one, but when you upgrade to the level 20 version it feels like god mode.

Once you full build with a ton of attack speed you can heal a **** ton and reduce your cooldowns fairly quickly. Bellona especially seems to benefit from it, but it's still really good on pretty much any basic attack brawler.

[HEX: SOLO QUEUE]

I saw a Ymir hitting for 800+ with just basic attacks yesterday - this is with all his CC, so it's literally freeze -> death in 1.5 seconds.

I mostly play Arena. It should not obvious which team is going to win before the match even starts just from the team composition, but it is, if the people are even half way competent at the god.

Oh, they have Achilles, Artemis, Neith, Sol and you have all DPS and not the most OP meta ones? Yea, it's over.

[shine]

Originally posted by HEX: SOLO QUEUE:

I saw a Ymir hitting for 800+ with just basic attacks yesterday - this is with all his CC, so it's literally freeze -> death in 1.5 seconds.

I mostly play Arena. It should not obvious which team is going to win before the match even starts just from the team composition, but it is, if the people are even half way competent at the god.

Oh, they have Achilles, Artemis, Neith, Sol and you have all DPS and not the most OP meta ones? Yea, it's over.

Its a MOBA, so yes team composition will mater.
Make some friends and play together!

You guys are missing the problem here and it's not the game.
For simplicity sake we will call Mid game having 2-4 items built, and late game being all items maxed or nearly maxed.

If you are a mage or adc getting wrecked by a bruiser early/mid game then you are playing WAY too agressive vs the rest of your team.

Warriors are made to box, they come 'online' mid game (earlier than nukes and adcs) and will absolutely wreck you in melee distance, as it should be.

Don't feed them and don't chase them mid game.
Also Burst damage from skills vs DPS from auto attacks can create an illusion of power differential, so if you get nuked from 3 consecutive skill attacks mid game from a warrior, this is why.

ADC and Mage damage comes 'online' -late- game.
Unless sacrificing damage for tanky pieces (meaning your team is falling behind and can't close the gap enough to protect you, or you are being far too agressive) you will output far more dps than other classes are capable, but this again depends on your entire builds efficiency vs the enemy builds.

Mages and ADCs are NOT bruisers. Stop meeting them on their field, make your own.
You have escapes, you have team mates, you have VHH so use them.
Remember to last hit your minions.

Most of all, remember this is a MOBA.
Fight within your means, don't overextend and do not 'think' you can take someone if your builds says otherwise.

Your 'skill' is determined by your gold advantage.
This is not COD, there are no head shots for extra damage and if your opponent has better built items than you, you are most likely already dead.

[Caesar]

Originally posted by shine:

Originally posted by HEX: SOLO QUEUE:

I saw a Ymir hitting for 800+ with just basic attacks yesterday - this is with all his CC, so it's literally freeze -> death in 1.5 seconds.

I mostly play Arena. It should not obvious which team is going to win before the match even starts just from the team composition, but it is, if the people are even half way competent at the god.

Oh, they have Achilles, Artemis, Neith, Sol and you have all DPS and not the most OP meta ones? Yea, it's over.

Its a MOBA, so yes team composition will mater.
Make some friends and play together!

You guys are missing the problem here and it's not the game.
For simplicity sake we will call Mid game having 2-4 items built, and late game being all items maxed or nearly maxed.

If you are a mage or adc getting wrecked by a bruiser early/mid game then you are playing WAY too agressive vs the rest of your team.

Warriors are made to box, they come 'online' mid game (earlier than nukes and adcs) and will absolutely wreck you in melee distance, as it should be.

Don't feed them and don't chase them mid game.

ADC and Mage damage comes 'online' -late- game.
Unless sacrificing damage for tanky pieces (meaning your team is falling behind and can't close the gap enough to protect you, or you are being far too agressive) you will output far more dps than other classes are capable, but this again depends on your entire builds efficiency vs the enemy builds.

Mages and ADCs are NOT bruisers. Stop meeting them on their field, make your own.
You have escapes, you have team mates, you have VHH so use them.
Remember to last hit your minions.

Most of all, remember this is a MOBA.
Fight within your means, don't overextend and do not 'think' you can take someone if your builds says otherwise.

Your 'skill' is determined by your gold advantage.
This is not COD, there are no head shots for extra damage and if your opponent has better built items than you, you are most likely already dead.

Well said.

[HEX: SOLO QUEUE]

Originally posted by shine:

snip

I have hundreds of hours in Arena in Smite 1, the problem there was not nearly as pronounced as it is in Smite 2. The other team having a front line when you don't means you're very likely going to be trapped in your fountain as the game snowballs out of control since they get all the buffs and minions too.

Add this to what Dead by Daylight calls the "Go Next" epidemic, which is also prominent here, and you have queue times longer than games with people AFKing and spamming Surrender very early (for the same reason, they don't want the disconnect penalty and they don't think they can win). Saying "just pre-made bro" is unbelievably arrogant + ignorant.

You can blame matchmaking if you want, it's pretty bad, but I think it's much more a balance problem. Bruisers/Brawlers/Warriors, whatever you want to call them, are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid and stronger than anything else by miles - especially with nerfed counters like penetration. It shouldn't take an entire team focusing one exclusively for 30+ seconds to kill them, which is absolutely how Bellona, Achilles, etc are.

[shine]

Originally posted by HEX: SOLO QUEUE:

Originally posted by shine:

snip

I have hundreds of hours in Arena in Smite 1, the problem there was not nearly as pronounced as it is in Smite 2. The other team having a front line when you don't means you're very likely going to be trapped in your fountain as the game snowballs out of control since they get all the buffs and minions too.

Add this to what Dead by Daylight calls the "Go Next" epidemic, which is also prominent here, and you have queue times longer than games with people AFKing and spamming Surrender very early (for the same reason, they don't want the disconnect penalty and they don't think they can win). Saying "just pre-made bro" is unbelievably arrogant + ignorant.

You can blame matchmaking if you want, it's pretty bad, but I think it's much more a balance problem. Bruisers/Brawlers/Warriors, whatever you want to call them, are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid and stronger than anything else by miles - especially with nerfed counters like penetration. It shouldn't take an entire team focusing one exclusively for 30+ seconds to kill them, which is absolutely how Bellona, Achilles, etc are.

Sorry started to reply and to the first part but didn't the last.

So matchmaking is not a 'good' thing in most any game, it is a 'go between' to connect players as best it can.

Some people seem to think there is an exact match to them somewhere out there.
Realistically it does a decent job, you get good and bad games.

But this is a MOBA.
It requires more than anything else Teamwork and Coordination.

If you are solo queing and making these assumptions/statements then thats the first error in your calculations.

Anyway back to the bruisers, again its down to the builds and player experience.

I have 12k+ hours in Smite 1.
Both games are basically identical in function.

We are missing a LOT of items. So many builds will not be possible yet.

Also missing a lot of Gods which limits things further.

This is still a Beta, nothing is going to be good enough to satisfy anyone.

If you feed a Neith or Iza or heaven forbid an Artemis that knows how to play and has at least 1 good teammate, you will rethink your calculations.

Also remember, we are talking about a ranged class face tanking a bruiser class.
That never works out for the range mid game, and vary rarely late game unless they have an advantage.

ADC and Mages are not meant to solo fight bruisers in melee range, ever.

I think the biggest issue here is there is a lot of A-S tier Warriors on the table, and not as many A-S tier ADC/Mages.

But again, your gold advantage is most of your 'skill' in number form.
If you are calling our Bell to make your stance, she lasts less than 2 seconds vs 2 mages end built vs end built.

Play vs some bots, feel it out, Bell only has 2 movement skills and one is her Ult.
Not hard to avoid dealing with either as the first is very short range.

She also hard caps in ability just before late game.
I am assuming these bruisers/warriors are baiting fights and getting early kills, and closing the game before late game even hits.

I am also assuming you are playing exclusively Arena, which invalidates the most of this conversation unfortunately.


This game will never be balanced around Arena.