Symmetry modeling in Maya LT just plain sucks [Known issues, devs working on it]

[nervouschimp]

So, the most basic feature that any modeling app needs to be able to handle is symmetry modeling. Most modeling operations beyond just pushing verts around just do not work with symmetry enabled. It is basically a broken and useless feature. Multicut tool: broke. Fine use insert edge loop tool, nope, broken. OK, well we can go back to old school duplicate instance with -1 scale. Yay, now the model is black in the viewport. How can a mature, commercial 3D modeling app get this so wrong, while the free blender handles mirrored modeling beautifully? I've had to use Maya at work in the past so I know that modeling is not its strong suit, but I am disapponted to see that after all this time, it still has so far to go. At this point I am not sure I will keep the subscription. I'm probably going right back to blender.

[Meat4every1]

try reversing your normals if the model turns black.

[nervouschimp]

Originally posted by Meat4every1:

try reversing your normals if the model turns black.

Do you know what happens when you reverse the normals on an instance?

[☠F☺celessMind☠]

remove all the poly from the negative axis and then just apply a "mirror geometry" instead ?
It will fix the geometry and then you will not have the vertex normals inversed like with your method with scale -1.0. i am using maya 2015 complete but i do have some pain with the symetry too, not very effecient :/

[nervouschimp]

Yeah, well then you aren't really modeling with symmetry. That is a very old school way to work. 3 modeling apps that do this really well are nvil, silo, and blender. Autodesk, if you are listening, please fix symmetry. Everything from characters to furnature has symmetry. It is almost a showstopper that it is so horrible in maya.

[Pangolin Legends: Arceus]

What's it like in 3dsmax?

[p1ut0nium]

Hi nervouschimp. Not sure why you're having issues. I just did a quick test video to show symmetry working in the modeling toolkit - including extrusion, multi-cut, and inserting edge loops.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39898937/MayaLT/symmetry.mp4

Also, it is true that if you use -1 scale it will invert the normals. You simply need to select those faces and then go into the Normal menu and choose Reverse. I'm not sure why you would be modeling on an instance. Wouldn't you complete the model first, then instance it? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're doing.

Regardless, I'm here to help if you need it.

[nervouschimp]

Thanks for coming to my aid, P1ut0nium. Here are 3 videos of my own:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27648883/clip0001.avi

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27648883/clip0003.avi

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27648883/clip0006.avi

I can make more.

And an instance with -1 scale is the only way I can reliably model with symmetry. Yeah, you could just model half and when you are done mirror it over but then you are only seeing half an object while you work. A mirror instance at least updates while you model without constantly breaking.

[nervouschimp]

OK, here's another video:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27648883/clip0007.avi

Really, symmetry just breaks all the time. I can't rely on it.

[p1ut0nium]

Hi nervoushchimp,

Thanks for the videos. I'll have a look at them all and get back to you when time permits. I have watched the first one already.

Video #1:

From what I can tell in the first video - you have used the Modeling Toolkit symmetry function, but then you use the Insert Edge Loop tool in the Shift+Right Click context sensitive marking menu. This is why it doesn't work. If you use the Modeling Toolkit's symmetry, then you need to stick to using the Modeling Toolkit's functions.

I showed that workflow in the video to give you the proper way to use Symmetry with the Modeling Toolkit, but here are the step by steps:

1. Select the edge you want for symmetry.
2. In the Modeling Toolkit, click the Symmetry button - the model is now setup for Symmetrical editing using the Modeling Tookit only.
3. Enable Quad Draw in the Modeling Tookit
4. Mouse over the mesh and hold down the Control key - ghosts of new edge loops will display on both sides of the mesh.
5. Click left mouse button to place the new symmetrical edge loops arbitrarily, or click middle button to place centered between two edges.

Hope that helps.

[p1ut0nium]

Video #2:

It does appear that the Connect tool breaks symmetry in some cases. I'll look into this and see if it is a known issue. Thanks.

[nervouschimp]

I've got another video. In this clip I break symmetry with just one horizontal loop from the multicut tool:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27648883/clip0008.avi

This one is very simple to reproduce for your QA team.

[nervouschimp]

I have yet another video for you. In this clip I break symmetry in one step using the target weld tool:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27648883/clip0009.avi

Again, should be nice and easy for QA to reproduce.

[p1ut0nium]

Thank for these. I'm communicating with the dev team about these issues.

[p1ut0nium]

Hi nervouschimp,

I wanted to give you and everyone else a quick update regarding your example symmetry issues, directly from the dev team.

All of these issues are known and on the slate to be dealt with soon. Thanks for the bug reports.

[nervouschimp]

Thanks. I have update the tread title to reflect that these are known issues.