Is T&L now pay2win ? Just read what an experienced player has written about this topic

[Kerpal]

Interesting.

From PrinceArchie

Can a F2P acquire this level of strength? Early on I would say yes, it will certainly feel that way. It wont be hard to gain access to full traited blue gear as a F2P when the meta is fresh and there exists no epic items. HP pools will be far lower so the margins of error will be higher and economic gear will reign supreme. But as the game matures after the first few weeks, I'd give it maybe 2-3 weeks the delta between F2P and P2W will start to become more apparent. Epic gear that give stats will matter a lot more so you hit bonus thresholds, more creative or advanced epic gear set ups with armors that give heavy attack or combining reaper pieces will start to look like a "must have" for anyone trying to maximize their performance and these increases aren't marginal, they are orders of magnitude. Anyone who isn't a F2P degenerate going out of their way to sell precious marinds or farm boss gear in small clans not full fledged guilds will be at a massive disadvantage. Competitive large scale guilds will likely not want to have any F2P players in their guilds unless they know them personally simply because a F2P who isn't a degenerate isn't adding anything to the marketplace, as such they arent earning lucent and as such cannot put lucent INTO the guild. This is important, as expressed in other threads most competitive guilds in KR operate off a modified DKP. However many of the really rare items are sold internally at a discount but nonetheless they are consistently sold, upwards of 60K lucent at a "discount". The more whales in your guild, the more lucent you essentially circulate amongst yourselves and the stronger you are likely to be.

If you are a part of a large guild you do not want to be giving epic gear to players who have no hope of fully traiting those items, its a waste of time and resources. Players who have limited access to lucent are better off fully traiting epic dungeon weapons/gear or blue gear. That has remained true since launch and will likely continue to be the case. Outside of their unique perspective on how a marketplace in their game should function I'd say the trait system is really what makes this game feel so pay to win. Without the base weapon and three unique base traits, some of which can be worth hundreds of dollars in equivalent value, it is very hard to get "geared" in the best gear. Players who do pull this off however benefit massively, which is why RMT = Real Money Trading will without a doubt be rampant.

As we have seen so far it will happen here in the EU aswell because the gameplay mechanic is the same.

[Lyr]

People who say its not P2W are just farming Clown Awards. However, while "Top Guilds" do exactly what you say, giving gear to people only who instantly P2W to upgrade them, there will always be Guilds who are 100% F2P and don't do that. The problem here again is however that these guilds will probably quickly die once they realize they just get demolished by Whale Guilds everywhere and are just worthless peasants.
By the end of the year the game probably has 1 server left where whales just compete against other whales.

[Kerpal]

Originally posted by Ubel:

People who say its not P2W are just farming Clown Awards. However, while "Top Guilds" do exactly what you say, giving gear to people only who instantly P2W to upgrade them, there will always be Guilds who are 100% F2P and don't do that. The problem here again is however that these guilds will probably quickly die once they realize they just get demolished by Whale Guilds everywhere and are just worthless peasants.
By the end of the year the game probably has 1 server left where whales just compete against other whales.

Exactly.

[Jordan_Peterson]

its p2w.

[Witski]

Originally posted by Ubel:

People who say its not P2W are just farming Clown Awards. However, while "Top Guilds" do exactly what you say, giving gear to people only who instantly P2W to upgrade them, there will always be Guilds who are 100% F2P and don't do that. The problem here again is however that these guilds will probably quickly die once they realize they just get demolished by Whale Guilds everywhere and are just worthless peasants.
By the end of the year the game probably has 1 server left where whales just compete against other whales.

Nah, if you suck, you suck. Epic gear is nothing more than materials, the real gear is farmed and can't be traded.
At least inform yourself guys before spewing idiocy about a topic you don't know anything about.
And even then, with end game gear, if you suck, you suck.

[Witski]

Originally posted by Project Danny:

Originally posted by Witski:

Nah, if you suck, you suck. Epic gear is nothing more than materials, the real gear is farmed and can't be traded.
At least inform yourself guys before spewing idiocy about a topic you don't know anything about.
And even then, with end game gear, if you suck, you suck.

sounds like something with mummys card would say

Great argument, sound like a kid without reading and debate capabilities would say.

"no you" level of writing.

[Kerpal]

Originally posted by Project Danny:

Originally posted by Witski:

Nah, if you suck, you suck. Epic gear is nothing more than materials, the real gear is farmed and can't be traded.
At least inform yourself guys before spewing idiocy about a topic you don't know anything about.
And even then, with end game gear, if you suck, you suck.

sounds like something with mummys card would say

His comment just shows that he doesn´t read my starting post well.

[Jordan_Peterson]

Originally posted by Witski:

Originally posted by Ubel:

People who say its not P2W are just farming Clown Awards. However, while "Top Guilds" do exactly what you say, giving gear to people only who instantly P2W to upgrade them, there will always be Guilds who are 100% F2P and don't do that. The problem here again is however that these guilds will probably quickly die once they realize they just get demolished by Whale Guilds everywhere and are just worthless peasants.
By the end of the year the game probably has 1 server left where whales just compete against other whales.

Nah, if you suck, you suck. Epic gear is nothing more than materials, the real gear is farmed and can't be traded.
At least inform yourself guys before spewing idiocy about a topic you don't know anything about.
And even then, with end game gear, if you suck, you suck.

If you suck, you suck—but if you pay, you suck a lot less with better HP and DPS. Endgame gear might be farmed, but money can still buy you an easy mode. Nothing worse than sucking without the option to swipe. So yeah, F2P or P2W, if you suck, you suck—but at least with cash, you can suck less efficiently.

When it comes to low-stakes content, nobody cares if you do 3% less damage than the other guy. But in high-end PvP and competitive scenes, where everyone’s equally skilled, that 3% difference from gear makes a world of difference. The higher you go up the ladder, the more P2W matters. You only say it doesn’t because you’re stuck at the bottom, where gear doesn’t make or break you.

[Firecam]

It's P2W.

[Bogdan]

There servers are lagged anyways you do us a favor now and quit .

[b0nehead]

Originally posted by TwoTime:

Originally posted by Witski:

Nah, if you suck, you suck. Epic gear is nothing more than materials, the real gear is farmed and can't be traded.
At least inform yourself guys before spewing idiocy about a topic you don't know anything about.
And even then, with end game gear, if you suck, you suck.

If you suck, you suck—but if you pay, you suck a lot less with better HP and DPS. Endgame gear might be farmed, but money can still buy you an easy mode. Nothing worse than sucking without the option to swipe. So yeah, F2P or P2W, if you suck, you suck—but at least with cash, you can suck less efficiently.

When it comes to low-stakes content, nobody cares if you do 3% less damage than the other guy. But in high-end PvP and competitive scenes, where everyone’s equally skilled, that 3% difference from gear makes a world of difference. The higher you go up the ladder, the more P2W matters. You only say it doesn’t because you’re stuck at the bottom, where gear doesn’t make or break you.

Who cares about the top end. Everyone else is normal.

[Jordan_Peterson]

Originally posted by b0nehead:

Originally posted by TwoTime:

If you suck, you suck—but if you pay, you suck a lot less with better HP and DPS. Endgame gear might be farmed, but money can still buy you an easy mode. Nothing worse than sucking without the option to swipe. So yeah, F2P or P2W, if you suck, you suck—but at least with cash, you can suck less efficiently.

When it comes to low-stakes content, nobody cares if you do 3% less damage than the other guy. But in high-end PvP and competitive scenes, where everyone’s equally skilled, that 3% difference from gear makes a world of difference. The higher you go up the ladder, the more P2W matters. You only say it doesn’t because you’re stuck at the bottom, where gear doesn’t make or break you.

Who cares about the top end. Everyone else is normal.

Well, the top end is exactly where competition matters the most. While 'everyone else is normal,' it’s the high-end players that set the standard for gear, strategy, and performance. If you dismiss the top end, you're ignoring where P2W has the biggest impact. Sure, it might not matter in casual content, but when it comes to real competition, those 3% differences are exactly what people care about—and it's what keeps the game balanced or broken for everyone else.

[Witski]

Originally posted by TwoTime:

Originally posted by Witski:

Nah, if you suck, you suck. Epic gear is nothing more than materials, the real gear is farmed and can't be traded.
At least inform yourself guys before spewing idiocy about a topic you don't know anything about.
And even then, with end game gear, if you suck, you suck.

If you suck, you suck—but if you pay, you suck a lot less with better HP and DPS. Endgame gear might be farmed, but money can still buy you an easy mode. Nothing worse than sucking without the option to swipe. So yeah, F2P or P2W, if you suck, you suck—but at least with cash, you can suck less efficiently.

When it comes to low-stakes content, nobody cares if you do 3% less damage than the other guy. But in high-end PvP and competitive scenes, where everyone’s equally skilled, that 3% difference from gear makes a world of difference. The higher you go up the ladder, the more P2W matters. You only say it doesn’t because you’re stuck at the bottom, where gear doesn’t make or break you.

Auction house gear is just for traits..., they are worthless, crafted gear and dungeon gear is what matters.

There is no more dps or more hp, rotation and timings are more important.
So, if you suck, you suck even with bis gear.

Just like ESO or wow , i can give someone bis gear and everything, i assure you those people won't hit 20k dps with gear that can do 100k, same thing here, mostly.
Basically someone that is good can outperform a whale with fat fingers .
Just play the game instead going against me with half tought opinions on topic tthat you guys don't really aknowledge

[Kerpal]

Originally posted by b0nehead:

Originally posted by TwoTime:

If you suck, you suck—but if you pay, you suck a lot less with better HP and DPS. Endgame gear might be farmed, but money can still buy you an easy mode. Nothing worse than sucking without the option to swipe. So yeah, F2P or P2W, if you suck, you suck—but at least with cash, you can suck less efficiently.

When it comes to low-stakes content, nobody cares if you do 3% less damage than the other guy. But in high-end PvP and competitive scenes, where everyone’s equally skilled, that 3% difference from gear makes a world of difference. The higher you go up the ladder, the more P2W matters. You only say it doesn’t because you’re stuck at the bottom, where gear doesn’t make or break you.

Who cares about the top end. Everyone else is normal.

That is not the topic. The topic is about is T&L pay2win or not. But, If I´ve mention you right you say it is pay2win right, but who cares about the whales because they win in the end so or so?

[b0nehead]

Originally posted by TwoTime:

Originally posted by b0nehead:

Who cares about the top end. Everyone else is normal.

Well, the top end is exactly where competition matters the most. While 'everyone else is normal,' it’s the high-end players that set the standard for gear, strategy, and performance. If you dismiss the top end, you're ignoring where P2W has the biggest impact. Sure, it might not matter in casual content, but when it comes to real competition, those 3% differences are exactly what people care about—and it's what keeps the game balanced or broken for everyone else.

No they break games and constaly cause nerfs and unfun ♥♥♥♥ to ruin games for everyone else. I don't even need to prove that, you know it. In the field. .01% encounter chance. Like real life.

Not caring about this game im just discussing the logic.

[b0nehead]

Originally posted by Silv3rCGN:

Originally posted by b0nehead:

Who cares about the top end. Everyone else is normal.

That is not the topic. The topic is about is T&L pay2win or not. But, If I´ve mention you right you say it is pay2win right, but who cares about the whales because they win in the end so or so?

That's what whales mean. Usually skill trumps regardless and thats how i gauge p2w or not