PVP Arena - thats it?

[....]

I tried a bit of PVP Arena. But to be honest my first imperssion was awful.

Every time i tried it was pretty much onesided for one of the teams (3v3).

And to summarize the rest of the game:
- lots of identical builds? Crossbow+Dagger
- extreme burst damage
- lots of stun/bind effects
- no fight took much more than a few seconds
- why on earth are the PVP maps so ugly? The game looks great but the PVP maps ...

It also seems as if a PVE build is rather bad in PVP. I actually have a rather tanky char - but my health still melted within seconds. My attacks on the other hand did a lot of damage but i hardly ever managed to get close without stun and even if i did - my PVE skills that load power on hold are rather bad in PVP.

THe other main factor seemingly was Gear.


Not sure if thats it - but PVP that takes a few seconds without much tactics - do ppl really enjoy that? Also mostly it seems to be farming PVE players with high end gear and PVP builds to oneshot.

To me PVP seems more like a gimmic than the focus of the game. Normally PVP thrives if the playing field is somewhat even - in this game if you buy the perfect gear with real money and use the current cheese build you probably beat 95% of the other players.

I dont dont completely dislike PVP - i enjoyed it to some extent in other MMOs - but even if you ignore the pay2win and cheese builds - what is fun about combat if the combat pretty much is decided by stun and burst damage within seconds?

If i had to compare it to other games its more like those cheese builds to farm mobs in older MMOs - the difference is - thats the PVP part ...

[....]

Correct me if im wrong - but isnt the core of PVP a at least to some extent level playing field and battles that arent always decided within seconds? Also shouldnt the most deciding factor in PVP be player skill and not cheap meta builds and gear you can even buy?

This is like taking part in a pony-race with a formular 1 car you just bought while the others only got ponys that got glued on the floor just to be sure.

[....]

Isnt there more to PVP? The bigger battles sound interresting but they are rather rare.

[Offence]

Arenas are a part of content only if you are gs/dagger or sns/dagger for everything else you are just cannon fodder , melee completely and utterly stunlock you and one shot you in arenas.

Unless you build another set of gear with melee evasion but who wants to spend anymore lucent for this game in this state ? Srsly..

[XiWus]

Originally posted by Daoin:

PvP arena good for 1 thing and 1 thing only, try for 10 wins a week get the jewel item from the store with arena coins take out the trait and sell it. If you can look past the cheesy arenas and lob sided PvP and take it with a laugh theres some free lucent for the troubles. Sure for PvE players it's just not worth the hastle of being involved with lob sided PvP but it will pay for a free battle pass ^^ and it's not like the game is not so limiting alot of players are going to stick around for a long time because arenas in TaL are so great!

They're not free lucents, when you consider what it takes to get a 2-second PvP loadout (like a 10-second vehicle from Fast and Furious).

[A.J]

Yeah the PvP sucks in this game. They don't have diminishing returns or anything. You just get stunlocked by one or two guys until you die.

And the knockdown arena sucks.

[DarkSilhouette]

tell me you're a casual without telling me you're a casual the post.

[MyCatWantsMeDead]

Originally posted by DarkSilhouette:

tell me you're a casual without telling me you're a casual the post.

The fact that the arena limits to one wand user per team, but not one GS is stupid though, GS dagger has the biggest nuke, most CC, best mobility and not to mention one of the easiest rotation. As a healer main and GS/dagger on my second toon i don't understand how a pvp focused game let that slide. As a heal i can fight against anything fairly BUT GS/Dagger, as a GS/dagger i can fight anything except guess who ? Gs/dagger. The first one to stun the other wins, which is really bad design imo, as it does not require player skill at all. And wait ? First stun got blocked ? Non issue, i got 2 others. Makes no sense, as a heal/supporter i have a sleep, and a bind, that's all the CC i own in my kit compared to the biggest dps having 1stun, 1gapcloser+stun, +gapcloser+bind (into prone with ascending slash), one other gapcloser + bind. Wtf ? It's like giving a real assault rifle to a guy in an airsoft match.

[Maximvs]

Bro, the end game pvp is to prevent other guilds from getting loot, it's extremely petty

[| Zodium |]

Originally posted by ....:

I tried a bit of PVP Arena. But to be honest my first imperssion was awful.

Every time i tried it was pretty much onesided for one of the teams (3v3).

And to summarize the rest of the game:
- lots of identical builds? Crossbow+Dagger
- extreme burst damage
- lots of stun/bind effects
- no fight took much more than a few seconds
- why on earth are the PVP maps so ugly? The game looks great but the PVP maps ...

It also seems as if a PVE build is rather bad in PVP. I actually have a rather tanky char - but my health still melted within seconds. My attacks on the other hand did a lot of damage but i hardly ever managed to get close without stun and even if i did - my PVE skills that load power on hold are rather bad in PVP.

THe other main factor seemingly was Gear.


Not sure if thats it - but PVP that takes a few seconds without much tactics - do ppl really enjoy that? Also mostly it seems to be farming PVE players with high end gear and PVP builds to oneshot.

To me PVP seems more like a gimmic than the focus of the game. Normally PVP thrives if the playing field is somewhat even - in this game if you buy the perfect gear with real money and use the current cheese build you probably beat 95% of the other players.

I dont dont completely dislike PVP - i enjoyed it to some extent in other MMOs - but even if you ignore the pay2win and cheese builds - what is fun about combat if the combat pretty much is decided by stun and burst damage within seconds?

If i had to compare it to other games its more like those cheese builds to farm mobs in older MMOs - the difference is - thats the PVP part ...

Arenas are about who can apply stun or prone first then apply 20kish damage within that window. Unless the skill gap or gear gap is massive then shouldn't really effect the outcome. Its more of a race to apply the first stun and being careful when deciding how to use your own stun breaks. Thats what it boils down to unless you have a skill gap or bad gear.

As for daggers and crossbows the reason you see so many of those is because they have stuff that gives them a huge advantage in arenas over builds without either of them. So people who take them are people who want to win every time. You should expect that kind of try-hard attitude in arenas. Its just how it is. If you don't share it then good on you for being honorable. But dont expect that of others. It is a pvp game.

[Offence]

Originally posted by 101.exe:

Originally posted by ....:

I tried a bit of PVP Arena. But to be honest my first imperssion was awful.

Every time i tried it was pretty much onesided for one of the teams (3v3).

And to summarize the rest of the game:
- lots of identical builds? Crossbow+Dagger
- extreme burst damage
- lots of stun/bind effects
- no fight took much more than a few seconds
- why on earth are the PVP maps so ugly? The game looks great but the PVP maps ...

It also seems as if a PVE build is rather bad in PVP. I actually have a rather tanky char - but my health still melted within seconds. My attacks on the other hand did a lot of damage but i hardly ever managed to get close without stun and even if i did - my PVE skills that load power on hold are rather bad in PVP.

THe other main factor seemingly was Gear.


Not sure if thats it - but PVP that takes a few seconds without much tactics - do ppl really enjoy that? Also mostly it seems to be farming PVE players with high end gear and PVP builds to oneshot.

To me PVP seems more like a gimmic than the focus of the game. Normally PVP thrives if the playing field is somewhat even - in this game if you buy the perfect gear with real money and use the current cheese build you probably beat 95% of the other players.

I dont dont completely dislike PVP - i enjoyed it to some extent in other MMOs - but even if you ignore the pay2win and cheese builds - what is fun about combat if the combat pretty much is decided by stun and burst damage within seconds?

If i had to compare it to other games its more like those cheese builds to farm mobs in older MMOs - the difference is - thats the PVP part ...

Arenas are about who can apply stun or prone first then apply 20kish damage within that window. Unless the skill gap or gear gap is massive then shouldn't really effect the outcome. Its more of a race to apply the first stun and being careful when deciding how to use your own stun breaks. Thats what it boils down to unless you have a skill gap or bad gear.

As for daggers and crossbows the reason you see so many of those is because they have stuff that gives them a huge advantage in arenas over builds without either of them. So people who take them are people who want to win every time. You should expect that kind of try-hard attitude in arenas. Its just how it is. If you don't share it then good on you for being honorable. But dont expect that of others. It is a pvp game.

Actually xbow/dagger falls off greatly in tier 2 in all PvP aspects especially damage , there is no best class at everything even now , but for 1v1 and small scale gs/dagger is the undisputed king.

Honorable mentions go to xbow/dagg , staff/dag , longbow/dagg but it all boils down on comp , who focuses who because at the end of the day there is zero skill ceilling and outplay in this game.

[XiWus]

Originally posted by 101.exe:

Its just how it is.

How I hate this statement.

A PvP game should be varied and fun and allow you to use any type of equipment to beat the opponent equipped in any way.

[J smalls]

I probably have a skewed opinion (3700 CP) but Arena is fun. There are definitely areas that need improvement:

Better rewards as 2/3 of a epic bracelet a week isn't a viable reward

The CC immunity green shield needs to be cut in half, AGAIN. No one is having fun being stun locked for 10 seconds straight. Take the longest stun in the game (most likely stunning blow into a late prone for approximately 6 seconds) and hard cap it at that. Honestly 5 seconds should be the limit for any Hard CC (perhaps petrification and sleep would be an exception because they react differently with damage).

The Water map needs to go, ASAP. SnS is already an EXTREMELY strong class, letting them push/pull people off of the top level is completely overtuned.

Healers are... Extremely strong in this. Currently to my knowledge, stigma, guillotine, and meteor are counters (meteor is a garbage small scale skill). As well as prolonged Hard CCs. If fireball gets the heal debuff this might reign healers strengths into a more balanced state. The fact that one of the best counters to healers is letting them survive so they run out of mana is wild. This is a tough one to balance because we want healers to matter. This is probably a learn to counter issue, but well built healers feel unkillable (more so than SnS which doesn't make sense balance wise).

But overall my experience with it has been good. It feels like most teams are pretty geared that participate so going in sub 3000 CP is likely a rough time. Also if you didn't have knowledge on defensive stats to stack you'll likely have a bad time.

Last comment.

As a great sword user (GS/Staff), guillotine with the charge up specialization is a bit broken. I think this gets reigned in for large scale (due to the risk of the charge up), but in small scale this ability is bonkers. It's probably the single ability carrying SnS damage. The ability itself is fine without the charge up. The charge up makes it overtuned. You shouldn't be doing 8k damage pre heavy attack with one ability. Period.

Crossbow spin to win is also bonkers. But at least that has a longer cooldown. Still not a balanced skill though.

[Fox Tail]

IMO Crossbow Dagger is the most OP broken ♥♥♥♥ in this game for both large scale and small scale PVP. This weapon build can kill a single player that SnS user that also has 20k plus HP in 2s, while also mass wiping entire groups solo with their spin to win AOE attack. People like to claim that SnS/GS is the most OP thing for PVP in this game, non just fight a Crossbow Dagger player that knows what they're doing they'll pop out stealth and kill you before they even render on your screen ♥♥♥♥ is crazy OP and stupid. IMO everyone scream the meta is to stack 1.8k Melee evasion are idiots meta needs be stack 1,8k range evasion only way to not die by a crossbow player, and endurance does nothing against them sense dagger let them have 1.6k crit chance easily overwhelming the max 800 endurance you can have and they can debuff your endurance by 600 points making your endurance build completely pointless.

As for healers, I mean if your not a Crossbow Dagger there no point in fighting a geared healer you'll just never kill them. They'll always survive anything you throw at them and full HP heal the moment they're no longer CCed.

Honestly PVP balance in this game is a complete joke. From what I've seen Meta for any form of PVP is mass Cross Dagger, Healer, Longbow, Staff. Melee DPS, then lastly Tanks in this order. Reason you don't actually want tanks in PVP is because they are actually pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at high gear score PVP sense they don't do anything a DPS Melee can't do only difference is a Melee DPS can actually do dmg unlike the tank and sense tanks are only tanky for 9s every 90s your not really that tanky in the end of the day, but Melee DPS may as well just play Crossbow sense a Crossbow will always out preform them 100x out of 100 matches, then you want healers to keep people a live as long as possible, and Longbows to just spam flash wave for long range AOE, and Staff for meteor but Staff should just be Longbows cause Flash wave will always be better 100x out of 100 matches compared to meteor especially sense longbow also has self sustain as well with self healing and better single target DPS as well.

Anyone saying SnS/GS is OP though are either people that haven't PVPed at all, or people that are PVPing with 1.6k GS. As someone who played a tank up until I hit 3.2k CP I know how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tank is at high end PVP, you can see their CCs coming from a mile away sense they don't have flash step, they lack any dmg sense they don't have the crit chance to ever crit you once you have endurance, and 13k HP is easily enough HP to survive their full attack rotation 3 times before you even realize your being hit assuming you do some how get stunned by one of their obvious CCs yaou can see from a mile away. Also #1 thing that get you killed in PVP is being CC locked, it easy to CC lock a tank (which when you CC a tank they actually lose all their def passives as well from their SnS kit BTW while CCed), but dagger has 2 CC breaks in it kit, and you get the CC break item giving you 3 ways to break CC, it basically makes it impossible for any tank to even CC you ever unless they just so happen to catch you between CDs.

[ZeroCool]

PVP is ♥♥♥♥ absolute ♥♥♥♥♥ just stun and bind sweats i dont bother with it.

[....]

The more i play it the worse it gets - but i guess its mostly the people.

Honestly - what is even the point of PVP when 90% of it is ganking, trolling and harassing while probably 10% actually PVP with a purpose besides trolling others.

Whats even worse is that ppl seem to mainly only engage in PVP when they either completely outnumber and/or outgear people. Or attacking groups/people midbattle.


I just dont get it - i dont dislike PVP in general - but this will just make most casual and PVE players quit sooner than later, stop new players and also destroy the game for PVP players in the long run.

I think this video shows the problem rather direct:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy4sc-0rxCY

Obviously its not standard because Streamers get trolled more but in the end its similar for other players - just way less frequent. For some reason many PVP players seem to mainly get their fun in games from trolling in general and only engaging in PVP they know the other party has no chance.


Yes its also the fault of the Developers for not having better mechanisms to insert more meaningful PVP and punish PVP when it doesnt serve a purpose besides trolling ppl. But on the other hand - its also gamers fault since for some reason the ability to do something - especially that effects others playing brings out the worst in ppl ...



Honest question - do most PVP-Supporters actually want meaningful PVP on a level playingfield - or just a vent to troll and annoy others by only engaging in the most one sided activities in PVP possible? If there was PVP enabled in the first City im sure it would be a huge "Spawncamp" location and ppl would probably make it their goal to stop players from even leaving the first town.