Seeing an awful lot of suspicious builds. Is there cheats?

[Stormrhodos]

After seeing an increasing amount of extremely lucky builds, I made some observations: Every time I see some RIDICULOUSLY "lucky" builds with entire bags full of godly or perfect synergy items or crazy things like Crossblades on early rounds (which requires 6 whetstones+ 2 swords + 2 gloves+ multiple turns to build)...
it's always a chinese name.

As an example, here's a screenshot of what I would call suspicious:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3186733192
^Guy had MULTIPLE, exactly 4 wolperdingers (godly), exactly 4 rats, exactly 4 hedgehogs (epic), exactly 4 squirrels, 3 legendary tortilla birds, and a light goobert (godly) (+6 speed bags,+5 stam bags)
And he just so happens to have the perfect class item for it.

Now obviously, that might just be extreme luck or coincidence, but I'm seeing an awful lot of it, and an increasing amount it seems like. At LEAST one player ever run, often 2 or 3.
And these builds are not beatable unless you have an equally op build. I mean,they're literally perfect builds, as good as it can possibly get. Especially anything with Crossblades early on.
Just wanted to hear some input from other players: Is this just a case of confirmation bias, just bad luck on my part facing these guys almost once at least every run, or is there more supporting evidence and other strange things you guys have noticed?

Because I'm sure cheating could easily be possible and go under the radar if there even IS any anti-cheat, and considering just HOW much luck and money it would require to set these perfectly themed builds up... how is it possible to happen that often? Where do they get ALL that money and roll luck from?

Now, before anyone considers my suspicion about the name thing racist or something (it's not): There IS a region-bias for certain groups to be more likely to engage in cheating, even just based on availability/exposure or other factors. Most hacking and cheating communities are based on russian and chinese forums, for example.
There's also a common trend in other games where people pick chinese or russian names on purpose because it makes it harder to report them or look them up for people without a keyboard with the right letters.
So please, don't go there.
Give your input, because I really would like to hear other people's opinions and experiences with this (just the "facing extremely op builds" thing in general, or maybe you noticed similar suspicious builds),but let's stay away from anything silly.

[GeminiEclipse]

Originally posted by Stormrhodos:

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

https://ibb.co/0fYz1w8
There's Crossblades as early as I care to try for.

Impressive, but not sure how valuable that info is considering it's unranked.
With practically unlimited rolling and opponents trying the same gimmicky stuff instead of actually trying hard to win (because why care about losses, spam-rolling or then forfeiting in unranked?)
I doubt that's a viable strat in ranked play or that crossblades is even semi-reliable to get, especially on anything above silver, and forcing builds is usually never a good idea in these types of games, because when you don't get what you need in time, you lose and de-rank rapidly. 6 whetstones, 2 gloves, 2 swords, while trying to stay alive... Maybe, I never tried forcing builds, but it seems unlikely to me that you'd be able to even somewhat consistently do that outside of unranked (aka unlimited rolls just to prove a point), extreme luck... or cheating

Fine one more for posterity.

https://ibb.co/S3QG7PX

There it is in ranked. Same round as unranked. Not silver. Only lost twice.

It only took me two tries to get it because the first time I rolled straight past the last pair of gloves I needed and it would have been round 9 instead of 8.

But of course you have your excuses as to why it's not viable and so people who get it must be "super lucky" or cheating.

[Xyntech]

You're seeing the end result. He would likely have had Piggybanks or other economy items, members cards, etc throughout earlier stages. Those become useless when your backpack is full of better stuff, so you get rid of them.

I'm not going to claim there are no cheats, I have no idea, but I've seen far more abuse of powerful builds than I've seen suspiciously lucky early builds. Also, luck does happen. Occasionally, you or someone else will get a lot of really good items early on, made even stronger when the right ones are on sale. You'll benefit greatly by learning as many good combos and strategies as possible, as you'll start spotting options in the early game that otherwise you'd miss out on thinking of them as useless items.

Some tips for gaming the system in your favor:

Get sale items whenever you can. You can sell them back for the same price you bought them. You may open up a new strategy next turn by getting a sale item this turn. Get rid of them later if something better comes along. Rocks can always sell for their purchase price. Just don't prioritize a sale item over a full priced item that you need immediately.

Customer Cards are good if you want more items with higher rarity, but bad if you need more items with lower rarity. You can have multiple Customer Cards to increase the rarity of more shop items. Combining them into Platinum Customer Cards is only good if you want more Unique items, it doesn't increase general rarity.

Reserve items that are essential to your strategy if you can't afford them. Better yet, buy them outright as long as you can sell something unessential to do so, just don't sell something you'll regret. If there's something useful but non-essential, consider reserving it if you'll be able to afford it easily next turn, especially if you already have the backpack space for it.

If you have the extra money to do so, consider refreshing the shop. If you have 10+ gold and nothing that you want to buy, refresh the shop. If you're low on backpack bag space and you have 6+ gold in the early game, refresh the shop. Remember that you can still refresh the shop while an item is on reserve, you just won't get as many new options. Always consider items you're very willing to sell as part of your total current gold.

Prioritize more bags to add more backpack space unless you already have way more space than you're using. Getting bags later can be hard, so having a few too many in the early game is better than not having enough in the mid or late game. Just don't prioritize bags over useful items if you already have extra space. Bags on sale are almost always worth it.

Try to get some kind of economy item if you can. Piggybanks are good, especially when they're on sale. Sell them later if you need a few extra coins for an essential item, or just need the space. They are most useful if you get them early and use them for several battles. Once the piggy bank has paid for itself, think of it like covering the cost of 1 store refresh each turn. There are items that can help make you money as well, such as anything that generates a free item after each battle. Use the item if you want to, or sell it to help buy something better.

With all of that, you should be able to radically increase your odds of getting some good combinations of items. An outright unplayable string of bad luck is pretty rare if you take advantage of those systems.

[GeminiEclipse]

Originally posted by Blizz:

Originally posted by playwithfurcifer:

That looks completely normal to me, they just bought all pets they saw

My friend just played against this guy "Cardboard" with 23 Lucky Clovers in 1 backpack, https://imgur.com/a/ZtC2h6n , I can get extreme luck, but this seems WAY too sus, with 6 health regens too, is this guy the rng god?

The big clover item generates 2 clovers every shop. It's the big item in the top left.

[Buh]

Customer cards, pigs,shovel, etc. economy items get thrown out around start of survival and generate a ton of value If you started(first 3 rounds) with em. looks normal first time i ran pets i had 3 squirrels 3 rabbits by survival start much less round 18 where id have skipped another 3 rabbits cuz lack of space.

[Xyntech]

I'm not even sure if the Wolpertingers are great choices since he isn't using any stamina. I'd have gone for some food instead.

He pobably just wanted to make an all pets build which, aside from the Big Bowl of Treats, piggybank and potion, he got pretty close. It's not as hard to get your entire backpack to be pets if you aren't as picky about which pets you get.

[unripe mango]

simple explanation: there are more chinese players at 18-0 because they play the game more often. because they have more players. because they are just better at the game.

if you accept that there are regional biases for cheating you should also accept the possibility that there are regional biases for SKILL ISSUE.

[DrunkHobo]

That doesn't look like cheating at all. Your bags are poorly organized and your item choices are sub par. You could have easily beaten that with a better build...probably from just better inventory management on the things that you have currently.

[JuRiOh]

Cheats exist.
They are virtually undetectable.

You can never be sure if you are fighting a cheater or not, possible boards don't mean they weren't cheated, only a stupid cheater would present a board that is impossible, it's more than enough to just tip the RNG in your favour to hit Master or GM (spend the correct amount of gold each turn, simply have reroll cost 0 gold). That's just a reality we have to live in until hopefully there will be major change when the game releases (In essence it will have to be server-sided not client-sided).

[ptirodaktill]

I`m genuinely interested how https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185862946 this is even possible. Cause i usualy see max 4 chease per 18 rounds.

[Stormrhodos]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

I`m genuinely interested how https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185862946 this is even possible. Cause i usualy see max 4 chease per 18 rounds.

yep, that would be another example of suspicious build to me. Especially considering:
- the wasted bags (what is that, NINE speed bags? You'd think he would put in a little bit more effort to get some value out of them, if he actually rolled them in the shop)
- all the missing spaces (surely he could have found SOME things to put in there, even just 1cost stones to counter armor heavy builds, regen items or one of the orbs, if he had enough economy to find EIGHT cheeses and FIFTEEN blueberries)
- 2 letter chinese name
- how he made it to round 18.
Again, cheaters don't necessarily cheat JUST to spawn in a rainbow goobert and fill their entire bag with the most broken items, that would be way too obvious, and cheats usually require going under the radar to not be detected and worked against.
And why do that if you can win with """creative"""/infuriating setups instead, or just test stupid builds out?

[Mzlt. Minimiez]

I just tried that build. It is extremely good and fun.

First rtounds get cash piggies. Dont care about winning.
Then start buying space and pets. Get basket, buy more pets.
2 squirrels in the middle surrounded by the speed bird pet thrice is key.

[.//slayer]

yep, that would be another example of suspicious build to me. Especially considering:

You are looking at a Silver rating screenshot, man. Players in that tier are rarely optimization fiends.

- 2 letter chinese name

Chinese localization was implemented about a year ago, and the game is evidently successful in China, so what's your point?

[GeminiEclipse]

-Player wins against bad but funny build- "Must be cheating"

I guess we are at that point already.

[Stormrhodos]

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

-Player wins against bad but funny build- "Must be cheating"

I guess we are at that point already.

You keep ignoring the fact that cheaters don't just do the obvious "spawn in op items to win" strat, which would get quite boring fast I imagine, and immediately alert anyone.
You keep ignoring the FIFTEEN blueberries, the EIGHT cheeses, the NINE speed bags (largely wasted in one corner with zero thought put in)
You keep ignoring the highly suspicious economic power it would take to somehow ROLL and get all that (same in the OP,adding the costs together with the improbability of getting exactly 4x4 pets that fit perfectly in the bag)

And I pointed out in the OP already: I'm not 100% certain and am aware that things like confirmation bias exist (as is obvious by your continued insistence on sheer coincidences), or I would quit the game, especially if I saw people like you continuously defending obvious cheating.
I'm asking for more feedback to look for patterns or someone with more brain/computing-power to figure out if these builds would even be POSSIBLE economically. I'm ASKING if other people think there is cheats, because I THINK there is. Not saying they MUST be cheating, and there definitely is.

[Bumc]

I wonder if showing a total cost of opponent's (and your own) bag would alleviate this problem.

Maybe the opposite actually, people will get triggered on every lucky bag made possible by discount and economy items.