Ok, I'm done playing this game until shields/spikes are nerfed.

[tiamats4esgares]

This is stupid.

[playwithfurcifer]

Taking breaks is important.
You might also be interested in the following:
- im sure our discord members can tell you some counters
- beta branch is coming up today, with nerf to both ;)

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by playwithfurcifer:

- beta branch is coming up today, with nerf to both ;)

This is very good to know. ;)

I know there's counters but it's stupid when someone has like 6 shields on round 3 and no weapons and it's perfectly fine because I have 1 melee weapon so they counter me.

You can't just "play what the shop gives you" because if you play melee weapons you just lose. Period.

[MetalFreak]

There has been counters also its known that the first rounds are rng based on almost same item placing skill. It felt fine to me. I am also looking forward to the future tweaks :)

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by DaddyChaddie:

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

This is stupid.

yea fighting 6 shields and just thorns OR ripsaw is ridiculous this patch...hopefully it gets HAMMERED!!! Nerf can't happen soon enough!!! Definitely not fun to play or play against...counters to it only work if you actually get them.

PS Some of us boomers despise Discord. I'll never install that resource hog again :(

I'm a millennial, been using Discord for years but I don't like joining the discord for every single game I play, I like when the devs update us on Steam too and not just discord. Also I still like forums like this for discussions, as things get lost easily in busy discords. Maybe that's because I'm old. :)

[ItsFunToLose]

Originally posted by playwithfurcifer:

Taking breaks is important.
You might also be interested in the following:
- im sure our discord members can tell you some counters
- beta branch is coming up today, with nerf to both ;)

Game feels in a good place to me. I've been able to 10win and winout with plenty of strategies that aren't thorns.

"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself" But Lo, he could not.

[Veeshan]

The counter to that build is range weapons it negates pretty much all shield items and spikes. The mage class is unavailable so thats one counter to it not available but magic staff and bow builds have worked well for me so far.

[tiamats4esgares]

So in other words, it's rock-paper-scissors and you have to ALWAYS play scissors because EVERYONE plays paper. Balanced.

[DarkenDragon]

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

So in other words, it's rock-paper-scissors and you have to ALWAYS play scissors because EVERYONE plays paper. Balanced.

exactly, and now since everyone is going to play scissors, everyone is going to switch to rock.

thats what the meta means. if you only play what everyone else is playing, you're not going to do well. you gotta be a head of the curve and play the counter. so if you know everyone is going armor and spikes. well go ranged, poison, and magic damage. especially something like the mana dagger that goes right through armor. I had an opponent with 400 armor and still died while having all that armor cuz my damage ignored it completely

[tiamats4esgares]

Originally posted by DarkenDragon:

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

So in other words, it's rock-paper-scissors and you have to ALWAYS play scissors because EVERYONE plays paper. Balanced.

exactly, and now since everyone is going to play scissors, everyone is going to switch to rock.

thats what the meta means. if you only play what everyone else is playing, you're not going to do well. you gotta be a head of the curve and play the counter. so if you know everyone is going armor and spikes. well go ranged, poison, and magic damage. especially something like the mana dagger that goes right through armor. I had an opponent with 400 armor and still died while having all that armor cuz my damage ignored it completely

Yet people say you need to just "play what it gives you" and not try to "force a build". Unfortunately, that doesn't work. So if you get screwed by only seeing melee weapons, then you just lose. No skill involved, you just lose.

[Agent Soul X3]

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

Originally posted by DarkenDragon:

exactly, and now since everyone is going to play scissors, everyone is going to switch to rock.

thats what the meta means. if you only play what everyone else is playing, you're not going to do well. you gotta be a head of the curve and play the counter. so if you know everyone is going armor and spikes. well go ranged, poison, and magic damage. especially something like the mana dagger that goes right through armor. I had an opponent with 400 armor and still died while having all that armor cuz my damage ignored it completely

Yet people say you need to just "play what it gives you" and not try to "force a build". Unfortunately, that doesn't work. So if you get screwed by only seeing melee weapons, then you just lose. No skill involved, you just lose.

By that argument you can't really complain about spikes either because it also requires rng to build.

FWIW (For what it's worth), I've had decent runs with against spikes even with melee weapons by trying to maximize damage dealt per hit. Spikes are effective against chippy attacks, just don't do chippy attacks

[Reldan]

I've been watching Trynet the last few nights and he finds the shield/thorns stuff hilarious. He basically farmed these people into GM because there are builds that are genuinely strong in their own right that ALSO hard counter that strategy. For Reaper a poison build wrecks them because it shuts down their entire strategy. For Ranger early Ripsaw or even Spear can win you fights, and once you have Bows it's GG to them.

[Strictly Casual]

I don't know why people are complaining about spikes if bows simply counter them while having no counterplay, I think the 2 strongest things in the game are books and bows -edit- and ranger (compared to reaper, especially with her starting on a dagger which seems to be more of a detriment in having it)

The main issue with bows is, that they cost 0 stam, ignore shields/spikes do with a chance to double proc after a crit, which is near guaranteed on rangers giving them a weapon option of 4-8dmg on 1.75 sec base cd (on crit) in essence, which does ingnore defensive mechanics. Compared to reaper climbing ranger felt like a breeze, way more consistent. I am not sure, but the problem might just be acorns.

-Edit2-
Maybe hero longsword shouldn't buff ranged weapons?

[Halko]

The spike meta is pretty oppressive for sure. Usually cant play a game without at least 3 or 4 games of clowns that spent their whole wallet rerolling everything just for shields. And they usually win. Still its not nearly as bad as many people make it out to be. If i had to be honest i find the fact that many setups are just entirely invalidated by simple common items like garlic. You could have the perfect setup for a vampirism build only to go up against someone that has two garlic and just lose. Counters are important but man some of these counters are HARD counters. Would be nice if garlic were something like a -% debuff like gems in armor instead of just deleting stacks. At least that way you could out scale instead of getting one or two stacks only for them to disappear before they get any use.

[真黒蛸焼]

shields/spikes ???? cross blade builds are morrree completely ♥♥♥♥. you can combine all ingredients without demerit in 7,8 turns unlike rainbow goobert, and there is no anti build for it in early game.
We need more items preventing opponent's attacks, or simply nerf all blades.

[Weitsicht]

the problem isnt thorns or blades or whatever, the problem is the possibility to "force" a min-max build by rerolling at the beginning. at moment you chose a build at the beginning and either you sweep everyone or get hardcoutered ... just a sad feeling if you already know at the beginning of the fight who will win. i would limit or remove the rerolling to prevent exessive min-max builds

just my 2 cents to the topic