The REAL Problem with the Modern Bow.

[Shikabane屍]

As someone who is very fond of the forest i love the idea of a new ranged weapon being added to the game. The Modern Bow (according to the developers) has more range and damage than the Crafted Bow which has been around for about 60ish patches. I like this idea very much and I've wanted something like this for a while... problem is without visible stats on weapons there is no real inidcation that the Modern Bow does any more damage, whereas the range is visible by just some target practice i feel like they need to show some numbers as to HOW MUCH more damage it really does.

That being said this is the real issue. The Bow is too difficult to get for what it is. Now keep in mind like i said we dont know exactly HOW MUCH more damage the modern bow does than the Crafted Bow but the fact that in order to get the damn thing you need to enter Cave 7 (I.E. the endgame cave that you pass through to get to Sinkhole. fight off (or flee from) over a dozen canibals and atleast 2 Legsies (that i can remember) enter an off the path flooded tunnel in a water filled room that you dont even NEED to pass through AND you need the Rock Climbing Axe AND the Rebreather to get the damn thing is just too much for the average player to bother with.

Naturally I have alot of time and experience with the game so it wasnt hard for me but the modern bow doesnt need this type of limitation... The Katana, Flintlock, and Chainsaw are all much easier to get and are arguably better weapons than the bow but i guess it depends the situation. That being said I hope the developers move the bow somewhere more convienent as I feel most people who just wana pick up the game will do 1 of 3 things.

1. Complety miss the Bow because its in an off the path flooded tunnel inside a flooded room that you dont need to go through.

2. Figure out where it is and not want to bother because its too tedious and end up forgetting it by the time they beat the game.

3. Find it as they're going to beat the game and have no time to actively test it to determine if they like it or not.

This message is mainly for the developers but i hope my points rain true for alot of ears.

[Syndicake ☠]

The katana was nerfed a while ago and the chainsaw was nerfed a few patches ago, its not very good now and more suitable for cutting down trees. I wouldn't use either in hard mode.

[Shikabane屍]

I disagree i use both in hard mode and have very good results and even if what you say is true the flintlock is still much easier to get as are the Chainsaw and Katana. Wheras the bow is just too far out of the way to bother with for the average player

[Alex]

With trial and error the player will notice a difference, to many stats everywehere would ruin the feel of the game,. The forest makes you work harder then other games and really interact in the world rather than spell everything out for you, i think that really helps with imersion as you feel just like the main caracter and not just the player.

[Syncourt]

I'm hoping one day when the endless survival part of the game is further expanded upon, that an option or mode is released that prevents access to the end zone of the game. In that situation this would be one of the only weapons/tools that actually takes a reasonable effort to acquire.

1. Exploring should be a requirement to find any top tier weapon/tool.

2. That's up to them. Those who want such power will find it worth the effort.

3. I agree that this is a problem but only for those who are going solely for the story. Most people will only want to do the story once though, then they will want to either go creative or test thier survival skills. At which point they would seek out the weapon if they want it and return to the surface with it instead of completing the game. So I think it's a good idea to cater to the majority with this one.

I do agree it could use some stats though. Other weapons have stats on them so I don't see the problem with providing a bit of information.

[DanteBrane]

Did they buff the katana? I swear I remember it only doing like 4 blocks of damage after they nerfed it like crazy. I had complained that upgrading a crafted stick could make it just as strong if not slightly stronger than the katana but I think it has a couple more blocks of damage now.

Stats on the bows would be a good idea, that extra information would help. But where else would you want them to put the modern bow? I think it's good to put it deep in the caves, makes you have to be prepared and explore to find a good weapon. It's kinda hard to aim but I've made quick work of cannibals with it using bone arrows and poison arrows.

[Shikabane屍]

Originally posted by Alex:

With trial and error the player will notice a difference, to many stats everywehere would ruin the feel of the game,. The forest makes you work harder then other games and really interact in the world rather than spell everything out for you, i think that really helps with imersion as you feel just like the main caracter and not just the player.

Im not talking about a floating meter displaying damage the game already has a stats page in the guide for the player so why not a separate one with details on the weapons? it wouldnt be too hard to add and much like the bestiary it would fill out as you got the weapons and it wouldnt really break immersion either because story wise it would be "the character determined how good a weapon is"

[Shikabane屍]

Originally posted by Syncourt:

I'm hoping one day when the endless survival part of the game is further expanded upon, that an option or mode is released that prevents access to the end zone of the game. In that situation this would be one of the only weapons/tools that actually takes a reasonable effort to acquire.

1. Exploring should be a requirement to find any top tier weapon/tool.

2. That's up to them. Those who want such power will find it worth the effort.

My only problem with what you've said is that you say the Modern Bow is a "top tier" weapon and if there were some visible proof of that i would have no problem with the devs putting it in such a difficult location but after using it for a while it doesnt seem all that much better than the Crafted Bow in my opinion, a bit better range obviously but again with no visible stats who is to say how much more damage is really being done, i just think it shouldnt be AS hard to get since the flintlock you can obtain by looting Camp 2 (respawn Camp) for endless Dynamite and just wandering around on the surface and its arguably a better damage with slower reload time. idk i say the modern bow should be moved so we need either the Rebreather OR the Rock Axe to get it not both and dont put it in such a hidden spot that most players wont think twice looking at it. End of the day its only my opinion

[Bob]

Is this more of a complaint for hard mode? I feel everything seems weak against enemies on hard, and it is tougher to notice a difference when it takes so many hits to bring them down... if anything, the complaint should be about the ridiculous scaling on enemy HP on hard rather than weapons seemingly being ineffective.

I guess I just don't see what is so difficult about getting any single item in this game. You spend an in game week on a new file getting set up and supplies, and then you dive into different caves every other day or so and easily take out enemies in your way (experienced players could just get everything in a couple days if they wanted). Since nothing respawns in there, this can even be accomplished by players who aren't adept at fighting over some time. Is it really 'that' difficult to get the bow for the average player?

In this game, a better ranged weapon is probably considered a luxury item and viewed by the devs as something meant to take a bit more effort to get. They have never wanted to give us extremely easy killing power without getting up close and personal or without preperation anyway. Just because the average new player who spoils everything ahead of time would want a better ranged weapon, doesn't mean the devs should accommodate them.

[Syncourt]

Originally posted by Quattro:

My only problem with what you've said is that you say the Modern Bow is a "top tier" weapon and if there were some visible proof of that i would have no problem with the devs putting it in such a difficult location but after using it for a while it doesnt seem all that much better than the Crafted Bow in my opinion, a bit better range obviously but again with no visible stats who is to say how much more damage is really being done

Think of the modern bow like your 'sniper rifle' of the forest. It does something no other weapon can do with such accuracy and potency. Short range vs the crafted bow you won't find it a whole lot better, because that isn't it's purpose. The devs said they wanted to keep the crafted bow as a viable weapon even alongside the modern bow, which is why it shoots faster. The crafted bow is better than the modern bow for close range encounters, particularly for spamming flame arrows and headshots quickly.

[M1DN1GHTPROD1GY]

Originally posted by Quattro:

As someone who is very fond of the forest i love the idea of a new ranged weapon being added to the game. The Modern Bow (according to the developers) has more range and damage than the Crafted Bow which has been around for about 60ish patches. I like this idea very much and I've wanted something like this for a while... problem is without visible stats on weapons there is no real inidcation that the Modern Bow does any more damage, whereas the range is visible by just some target practice i feel like they need to show some numbers as to HOW MUCH more damage it really does.

That being said this is the real issue. The Bow is too difficult to get for what it is. Now keep in mind like i said we dont know exactly HOW MUCH more damage the modern bow does than the Crafted Bow but the fact that in order to get the damn thing you need to enter Cave 7 (I.E. the endgame cave that you pass through to get to Sinkhole. fight off (or flee from) over a dozen canibals and atleast 2 Legsies (that i can remember) enter an off the path flooded tunnel in a water filled room that you dont even NEED to pass through AND you need the Rock Climbing Axe AND the Rebreather to get the damn thing is just too much for the average player to bother with.

Naturally I have alot of time and experience with the game so it wasnt hard for me but the modern bow doesnt need this type of limitation... The Katana, Flintlock, and Chainsaw are all much easier to get and are arguably better weapons than the bow but i guess it depends the situation. That being said I hope the developers move the bow somewhere more convienent as I feel most people who just wana pick up the game will do 1 of 3 things.

1. Complety miss the Bow because its in an off the path flooded tunnel inside a flooded room that you dont need to go through.

2. Figure out where it is and not want to bother because its too tedious and end up forgetting it by the time they beat the game.

3. Find it as they're going to beat the game and have no time to actively test it to determine if they like it or not.

This message is mainly for the developers but i hope my points rain true for alot of ears.

I disagree on the damage part I killed a native with 2 shots and with normal arrows

[eclipse]

I think they picked an excellent spot for the new weapon.
Im glad they made it hard to find and somewhat hard to get. A player can easily just run past everything and go straight to it or fight their way to it.

You dont need the climbing axe to get it either, all you need are 5 sticks or couple of rocks to get back out.
I think someone posted you dont even need the rebreather. Im pretty sure you do unless you have max athleticism. I think i tried swimming that distance before with about 4-5 athleticism and was not going to make it.

Keep the bow exactly where it is, any challenge is Welcome! Im glad it pisses alot of people off haha.

Now we just need to put the other top tier weapons in hard to reach places. The katana for instance could be moved in front of the guy with cloth right next to the armsy instead of in the abandoned mine shaft part or put a mutant in there guarding it. Wouldnt really be much harder to get except for the new players. New players need to be given a hard time to get items else where the hell is the fun in it. If they give up oh well, they shouldnt be playing in the first place.

Your excuse for it being it an off the side place just strengthens the case i try to make even more. Exploring should be rewarded not coming up empty handed which was the case for this area previously.

If the average player does not want to do what it takes to get this item then they simply should not be rewarded. I hate how people want everything given to them so damn easy its pathetic and ruins games.

The chainsaw is for cutting trees, not really a weapon in my opinion.
The flintlock is crappy in my opinion and i never bother to get it ever. Think ive only had it once in all my time playing.
Now the katana is a superior weapon by all means in any mode. Its pretty much the ultimate melee weapon if used correctly. I agree it should be moved or guarded by at least 2 mutants in the spot its in now. I would put an Armsy, Virginia, and about 2 cannibals in the little area. I would hide one cannibal behind the boards and only trigger when player gets within short range haha then he comes busting out.

[Shikabane屍]

Originally posted by eclipse:

The chainsaw is for cutting trees, not really a weapon in my opinion.
The flintlock is crappy in my opinion and i never bother to get it ever. Think ive only had it once in all my time playing.
Now the katana is a superior weapon by all means in any mode. Its pretty much the ultimate melee weapon if used correctly. I agree it should be moved or guarded by at least 2 mutants in the spot its in now. I would put an Armsy, Virginia, and about 2 cannibals in the little area. I would hide one cannibal behind the boards and only trigger when player gets within short range haha then he comes busting out.

What are you talking about? the chainsaw is my FAVORITE Weapon in the game, its constant stun makes it easily the best against all enemy types.... except mutants. But even when ganged up by like 6 cannibals I would easily perfer the Chainsaw over the Katana since the Katana wears down your stamina too quickly. As for the flintlock it can 3 shot Virginias and its not a bad camping weapon

[m.cab]

Originally posted by Alex:

With trial and error the player will notice a difference, to many stats everywehere would ruin the feel of the game,. The forest makes you work harder then other games and really interact in the world rather than spell everything out for you, i think that really helps with imersion as you feel just like the main caracter and not just the player.

This is a very important aspect!

[Shikabane屍]

Originally posted by m.cab:

Originally posted by Alex:

With trial and error the player will notice a difference, to many stats everywehere would ruin the feel of the game,. The forest makes you work harder then other games and really interact in the world rather than spell everything out for you, i think that really helps with imersion as you feel just like the main caracter and not just the player.

This is a very important aspect!

I already addressed this... some of the weapons I.e. the melee weapons ALREADY HAVE STATS, i simply think the bow should too.

[markoman]

I'm very much okay with the location of the bow. Most of the best gear in the game is so easy to get, it's nice to see that we have to break a sweat once for a change.