Lets have a Real talk about Heavy Heart.

[Richard Roe]

Is it really worth it as it currently is in the game?

your picking 3 weapon mutaions for a 4th one that boosts the random gun on drop from killed hostiles.

hell most people can loop the game without any weapon mutations infact the best mutaions that all the Veterans pick are Health mutations and we most of the time only pick one weapon mutaion.

I feel like they should make it pop up with the other like 28 other mutations because I would love to pick it all the time.

so outside of Robot or making Crown of guns more fun and or doable can you guys give me some hope in this underdog of all mutations?

[Solo Death]

It'd be nice if you could get it easier, I really hate that I quite literally never see it without Crown of Guns. Even as Robot, there are just better things to take than 3 weapon mutations. Unless I strictly go for heavy heart, I garuntee you I will not see and I'm sure I'm not the only one who is that way.

[Richard Roe]

My point Exactly if Heavy Heart was more accesable more players would take it for sure

but currently it is almost not worth it unless you want to add the best of the best spices to your Crown of Guns or Robot Run.

I love the mutaion it like everytime gives me some of my personal favorite guns to use that I would not have gotten if I had normal Red chest (some times glitchs and not even spawn) Random Number Generation give me crap like a bloody wrench on the frozen city.

p.s. thanks HH for the Gattling Slugger that won my crap run.

[SquareDildo]

You are missing the point of Heavy Heart. It's not a 'reward' for taking multiple weapon mutations. It's a patch, something required to make multi-weapon runs work at all.

When you learn multiple weapon mutations, this comes at a price. You're skipping mutations which grant extra ammo and health. Shooting is literally the only thing you can do. And the absolute worst weapon for a weapon master is to go without any weapon.

And the mutation just doesn't make sense for anyone but weapon masters, and weapon switchers. If you want more weapons, you have Crown of Guns and Open Mind. A large portion of players takes one weapon and sticks with it, often to the point of using one ammo type. Common examples:
Auto crossbow, Gatling Slugger, Laser Sword

So if a typical player had Heavy Heart to choose from on a regular basis, it would be ranked as one of the junk mutations, like Eagle Eyes or Last Wish. Most people would be annoyed to see them occupy a mutation slot. For most people, it would only help them once in a run, when they marry their favourite weapon.

[Widow Peak]

Okay, I agree with...well, the guy above me. Heavy Heart serves as a patch.

HOWEVER...I do think Heavy Heart is a bit too locked. And that's coming from someone that uses Boiling Veins in a regular basis.

I'd really like if Stress, Eagle Eyes and Trigger Fingers also counted as 'weapon mutations'. This would not only improve those three mutations, but also make Heavy Heath more accesible to people without it appearing all the time.

[❍peth]

choosing laser brain, long arms and bolt marrow all at once is not unrealistic for me, in turn I don't find heavy heart too inaccessible

- I like that its a "hidden" mutation, very cool mechanic that I'd like to see more of in some semblance
- with the change to Rabbit Paw, how it no longer alters weapon drop rates at all, it's an absolutely necessary mutation, not to HAVE but to exist.

[ビリー・ブレイズ]

Originally posted by Widow Peak:

I'd really like if Stress, Eagle Eyes and Trigger Fingers also counted as 'weapon mutations'. This would not only improve those three mutations, but also make Heavy Heath more accesible to people without it appearing all the time.

But they're not weapon specific at all, and at least two of them are going to be unanimously seen as fine as is.

Boiling veins counting as a weapon specific is pretty lenient as it is, tbh. That plus the two mutations for the weapons you're using and bam heavy heart, easy. If you're not making room for the weapon specifics then that's a choice of playstyle, but it's not like the mutation itself is hard to achieve and needs changing.

[Widow Peak]

Okay, but what if I am using a Super Bazooka and a Wave Gun?

Or if I ditch Boiling Veins (Something I will never understand, why would you rely on Strong Spirit for explosion protection?)

[SquareDildo]

Energy Sword and Energy Hammer are the only weapons that benefit from two weapon mutations. Pop Gun and Incinerator only utilize Shotgun Shoulders.

[Emperor J]

Originally posted by Opeth - RdGarfield:

choosing laser brain, long arms and bolt marrow all at once is not unrealistic for me, in turn I don't find heavy heart too inaccessible

- I like that its a "hidden" mutation, very cool mechanic that I'd like to see more of in some semblance
- with the change to Rabbit Paw, how it no longer alters weapon drop rates at all, it's an absolutely necessary mutation, not to HAVE but to exist.

^ This basically.
The extra weapon drops also give extra ammo, which is very useful.

[Peter]

I think it's a pretty fair requirement, since heavy heart is actually REALLY good on certain setups and builds. I do, at the same time, think we need more weapons akin to the energy sword: weapons that benefit from multiple exclusive mutations. Seeing the pop gun benefit from shotgun shoulders and recycle gland at the same time would be a fantastic change. I wouldn't even mind seeing some weird weapons that use 2 different kinds of ammo, that might be a fun idea.

[Emperor J]

Originally posted by Peter:

I think it's a pretty fair requirement, since heavy heart is actually REALLY good on certain setups and builds. I do, at the same time, think we need more weapons akin to the energy sword: weapons that benefit from multiple exclusive mutations. Seeing the pop gun benefit from shotgun shoulders and recycle gland at the same time would be a fantastic change. I wouldn't even mind seeing some weird weapons that use 2 different kinds of ammo, that might be a fun idea.

Yes certainly, some unique weapons would do the game good.

[Widow Peak]

Okay, I just tested it. Recycle Gland does NOT work with Pop.

[Richard Roe]

#addThunderBow

but yah they need to add more unique guns into the game because currenty the 6 weapon mutations feel kind of terrible on their own

currently my personal gripe about the game is how the most survivable play style (all Health mutations) is the major way to get far not go crazy with mutation interactions (Stress + Bullets or Eagel Eyes and Shotgun Shoulders without slugs)

it is such a Meta it is a tad bit painful to watch
most people skip Last wish and Eagel Eyes for many reasons but taking those mutations can really benifit you
one reason people skip Last Wish is well the Jungle....

im gonna be truthful here I Love the Jungle it is so fast paced and challenging it complements my Plant type playstyle but the 4 Health requirement some times just bars me off
some times you don't want to fight Assasins,Flys and pop gun Bandits at 2 hp.

and nothing says Get mad like feeding the flower and getting charged or gunned in the back because you had 7-2 hp.


and EE man you would not belive how many guns is effect but yet it does not have any effect on a lot of guns and it is That it effects only a handfull of guns that most people see it as total trash.

[merlot]

If it's a patch, it should be free. Having 3 mutation slots taken up to have this one playstyle is enough of a disability. After taking* 3 mutations it should come* up on its own screen, with no other choices than it, and of course, not count as one of your 9 mutations.

[Richard Roe]

Dude that is the best idea I have heard out of all this.
because then it keeps that challenge of getting it and makes it really worth it because as it
currently is in the game it is a waste of 4 mutations

were your most likely only gonna use 3 at most an not get the benifits of 1 and every player knows every single mutation can make or break you in the long run.