Mercy or Bloodshed(spoiler)

[Arrion-Dar]

How did you play? Did you leave a trail of blood and no bodies, or did you skulk around undetected and leave them all to die as the tower fell?

[StickyPawz]

A bit from column A, a bit from column B.

[Bassilth]

In my first playthrough I have gone full Mercy. I wanted the Insignia and the achievement.

On my second playthrough -where I am now- I have taken up the challenge to kill absolutely freaking everyone in the levels, no matter how. It is far more fun than my first playthrough.

I wish the game would have something like a... murder insignia or something for exp along Mercy.

[ed]

I killed just about everyone, in part because it can be a fun puzzle to figure out different ways to do it and also because I'm not actually very good at stealth games so I like to create "safe zones" I can work from.

Originally posted by Bassilth:

I wish the game would have something like a... murder insignia or something for exp along Mercy.

I can see why they didn't, though. The special awards are for doing things that are harder than normal, like leaving everyone alive means you have living/moving enemies on every side of you at all times. Meanwhile, killing everyone and emptying the map makes the game easier, which is its own reward.

[Bassilth]

I think it is far more difficult to kill lots of people without being detected than sparing everyone and not being detected.

I simply felt the entire game being a bit... monotonous due to me being forced to not kill anyone for more exp in every single level. It forced me to do the same thing. Over and over. It did not let me be creative and choose different ways to play between levels. Plus I had to miss all the cool kill animations and some of the useful tricks.

It would have been far more awesome to make my first playthrough diverse, so I could be happy to play it again. Sure, I still play it. But not that much at once. The first Mercy playthrough really hit me with monotony and left a slightly sour taste in my mouth when thinking about the game.

But I still like it!

[Arrion-Dar]

Originally posted by Bassilth:

I think it is far more difficult to kill lots of people without being detected than sparing everyone and not being detected.

I simply felt the entire game being a bit... monotonous due to me being forced to not kill anyone for more exp in every single level. It forced me to do the same thing. Over and over. It did not let me be creative and choose different ways to play between levels. Plus I had to miss all the cool kill animations and some of the useful tricks.

It would have been far more awesome to make my first playthrough diverse, so I could be happy to play it again. Sure, I still play it. But not that much at once. The first Mercy playthrough really hit me with monotony and left a slightly sour taste in my mouth when thinking about the game.

But I still like it!

Actually, if you were creative with certain kills, specifically the ones Ozkan gives you, you still get mercy and shadow credit for the skill points. Like the Atrium, I dropped a crate on the dude and then disposed of the body without being seen. It was considered an accident, and I still got mercy and shadow, plus the sp for doing him in.

[Bassilth]

That is only 1 or 2 kills. It does not kill the monotony.
But this is just my opinion, of course. It just would be nice if we could choose our style between levels and still get extra exp for playing that way. Obviously getting a murder insignia would not be easier than getting Mercy. For this, I believe you would need to kill significant amount of people.

[Arrion-Dar]

Originally posted by Bassilth:

That is only 1 or 2 kills. It does not kill the monotony.
But this is just my opinion, of course. It just would be nice if we could choose our style between levels and still get extra exp for playing that way. Obviously getting a murder insignia would not be easier than getting Mercy. For this, I believe you would need to kill significant amount of people.

Well this was also designed to be a stealth infiltration game, much like Thief(Original and remake), as apposed to Dishonored which was disigned to be a stealth assassination game, with actuall combat that wasn't meant to wreck your day, for being seen, or failing to stay hidden. By the way, I HIGHLY recommend the first Dishonored, as it may be more of what you're looking for.

[ed]

Originally posted by Bassilth:

I simply felt the entire game being a bit... monotonous due to me being forced to not kill anyone for more exp in every single level. It forced me to do the same thing. Over and over. It did not let me be creative and choose different ways to play between levels. Plus I had to miss all the cool kill animations and some of the useful tricks

What is this "forced to" and "let me" and "had to"? Getting max exp isn't remotely necessary to beat the game. :P

[Bassilth]

Originally posted by Arrion-Dar:

Originally posted by Bassilth:

That is only 1 or 2 kills. It does not kill the monotony.
But this is just my opinion, of course. It just would be nice if we could choose our style between levels and still get extra exp for playing that way. Obviously getting a murder insignia would not be easier than getting Mercy. For this, I believe you would need to kill significant amount of people.

Well this was also designed to be a stealth infiltration game, much like Thief(Original and remake), as apposed to Dishonored which was disigned to be a stealth assassination game, with actuall combat that wasn't meant to wreck your day, for being seen, or failing to stay hidden. By the way, I HIGHLY recommend the first Dishonored, as it may be more of what you're looking for.

I have both Dishonored, actually.
And let us not forget that Styx isnt just a thief but also an assassin. So killing people without being spotted should be his thing too.
There is an entire skill tree based on it. Pretty nasty to make us ignore it for the necessary skillpoints.

Originally posted by ed:

What is this "forced to" and "let me" and "had to"? Getting max exp isn't remotely necessary to beat the game. :P

Beating the game: No.
Getting useful skills before the end of the game: Yes.

[ed]

Originally posted by Bassilth:

Originally posted by ed:

What is this "forced to" and "let me" and "had to"? Getting max exp isn't remotely necessary to beat the game. :P

Beating the game: No.
Getting useful skills before the end of the game: Yes.

You can still get tons of useful skills without needing to ruin the game for yourself getting Every Single Point, though, is what I'm getting at. You do not remotely need all of them, and certainly not badly enough to play in a way that you hate.

Pretty sure I never got a single mercy, time limit, or thief insignia, because I hate that stuff so I don't bother with it, and I still had more stuff unlocked than I ever needed.

[Bassilth]

Maybe you didnt need that many skills. This is why you got what you needed. Or more than you needed.
I simply felt it monotonous and a bummer I had to rely on being merciful that is all. This is what the game encouraged.

Think about it. Even if I would need very few skills -as you seem to suggest- and I could unlock them about halfway in the game without problems... It is still punishing players for being an assassin (killing without being spotted) in the form of taking away an insignia and a chance for howevermuch extra exp. Like a slap on the hand. Even if it doesnt mean much.

The game clearly encourages being an assassin in the form of a skill tree, seemingly giving us an option to kill as well. But once you decide to make use of the skill tree... boom... Mercy is gone. Extra exp is gone.

Like... the devs give you a cake but once you take a bite they take the cake away and make you spit out what you have in your mouth.

Sure, if I didnt need that many skills unlocked, I could survive and complete the game but it is still very discouraging...

Am I the only one who finds this annoying?

This is why I thought a murder or assassin insignia would be nice. Just to allow us to be creative and choose a different style to break that monotony for extra exp. To make sure we feel rewarded either way. Nobody asks for the murder insignia to be handed to us! Obviously you would need to kill specific amount of people without being spotted to get the extra exp on a level.

Or just remove the kill skill tree... I dunno.

[ed]

Originally posted by Bassilth:

Think about it.

Pet peeve, but do you actually believe I'm not really reading anything you say and typing up responses without thought just because you don't happen to agree with me - or because I don't agree with you? That's how this phrase comes across when people use it in this way, and it doesn't make your post more convincing.

Originally posted by Bassilth:

I simply felt it monotonous and a bummer I had to rely on being merciful that is all.

It is still punishing players for being an assassin (killing without being spotted) in the form of taking away an insignia and a chance for howevermuch extra exp. Like a slap on the hand. Even if it doesnt mean much.

The game clearly encourages being an assassin in the form of a skill tree, seemingly giving us an option to kill as well. But once you decide to make use of the skill tree... boom... Mercy is gone. Extra exp is gone.

This is why I thought a murder or assassin insignia would be nice. Just to allow us to be creative and choose a different style to break that monotony for extra exp. To make sure we feel rewarded either way. Nobody asks for the murder insignia to be handed to us! Obviously you would need to kill specific amount of people without being spotted to get the extra exp on a level.

Again with "had to." :P Look, I get that some people have a hangup about feeling COMPELLED to complete every possible thing and achievement in a game just because it exists, and I can see how if you have that fixation it can seem like the game is personally coming to your house to kick you in the groin and insult your favorite TV show if you don't get to play however you want and still get the 100% that you don't actually need in any way.

But my point is still that you don't need it, it doesn't matter, the skill points were balanced such that only 100% completion gives 100% skill points as bragging rights so they would have to shift the numbers if adding additional achievements and you still wouldn't have 100% skill points skipping Mercy even if you did get a "murder everything" bonus too, and you're not being punished if you decide to kill a bunch of enemies and make the game easier for yourself that way instead of by way of earning maximum skills. (And it does make the game easier, let's not pretend otherwise.)

Also, the levels are replayable (once you've finished the storyline so as to avoid that one bug) so if you really can't live with yourself not 100%-ing the game you can do that and then go back and play however you want for the rest of eternity anyway, making this entire debate utterly pointless.

[Arrion-Dar]

Here let me end this easily for you. Do multiple playthroughs. Do one for shadow, one for mercy, one for speed runs, and one for a loot grab. I actually think this is what they intended in the first place. Honestly, I feel like some of the fastest paths require you to do drop and hidden kills from ledges and hiding spots to get through the fastest path. Because unless you've looked up map layouts with exact locations of coins, guards, potions and such, and memorized them to the tiniest detail, there is no way to get every achievement in the first run.

And honestly, when in the history of gaming was ANY game, designed to only be played once and put away, to never be played again?

[Γαῖα]

This game as far as steath goes is more dishonored than splinter cell except without the fun, thrills and of course abilities.
I dont think it really matters unless your a completionist and even then your not missing out on much if you just go for orbs. Killing everything that moves will give you the longest play time but that all depends how long you can put up with the tempo and dull story really.

[Sad_Brother]

1.There are so many games to kill all around. No need to do it here.
2.Play to get fun and personal experience. Why to fill 100% possible achivements or so? Is it your game? Are you game's slave?
3.People play speedrun in less than a hour per game. People play all goals in sigle run. People play just for fun and look around. It would be best if game would remember like "level 1 silent death style shown".