Rules rules rules!

[LeeSalt]

I was watching WatchItPlayed videos on the 3rd ed. table top Space Hulk to see how everything worked.

1st: I wish I was told that rolling a 6 was a hit - the game never says and I was wondering how die rolls worked.

2nd: Heavy flamers cannot fire after moving! The PC game even says that in the librarium rules but the game still lets you move and fire!!!

2b: A heavy flamer's attack only works on a board piece - not around corners and all the weird stuff it does in this game based on where the cursor is. But board pieces aren't designated or marked in the PC game - so is this why they allow all the weird heavy flamer stuff?

3rd: When you jam your bolter in overwatch, the jam is automatically cleared after the end of the turn on the table top, according to WatchItPlayed. But in the PC game, you have to spend an AP/CP to clear a jam on the next turn if you ever want to fire your bolter again.

4th: This was never explained and I found out the hard way: You can only reload the assault cannon once? I didn't realize you wasted all previous ammo and only got to do it once. My heavy gunner could have survived if I had known that and it was ever explained in-game.

Can someone please explain these three diffrerences to me and if they were decisions made by the designer or if they are accidental bugs/changes from the table top game?

Thanks

[PandaMan]

I don't know about most of your questions, but in regards to 2b, they made the flamer use a tile set to make the transition smoother to PC.

[Gideon]

2: Both the board game and the video game have the following rules:
A flamer can spend AP or CP to move, and then 2AP or CP to fire a flamer.
Unlike a bolter or assault cannon, a flamer does not get the optional free fire after spending an AP or CP to move.
I think you may be confusing these two cases.

2b is explained in one of the designer interviews.

3 is a rules change (not clear if it was intentional or unintentional) that was brought up numerous times so presumably the developers know about it. Hopefully it will be reverted to the board game rules.

[LeeSalt]

Gideon, it is not very clear for #2. Here is the table top rule book: http://www.orderofgamers.com/downloads/SpaceHulk3rdEd_v1.1.pdf

Here is the entry for flamers:

Shooting a flamer cannot be combined with any other
action. Range is 12 squares, and the target may be an
empty square.

To me and many others online, it seems to say that you cannot move and shoot or shoot then move, or melee or guard at all. Flamers can't go into overwatch.

If I am wrong, what, exactly, is it talking about when it says it can't combine any other action? Just the free fire on move? What else is there that it can't combine with?

Please excuse my ignorance for I'm limited in my knowledge to watching people on YouTube explain or play it.

This is the video I watching at the time hack 6:40 he explains the flamer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlLHkh3_F80#t=06m40s He says you can's move and fire. You're saying he's wrong so what is your reference for your rule?

[Gideon]

"shooting a flamer cannot be combined with any other action" == you cannot move and shoot for 1AP or CP like you can with storm bolters and assault cannons. Moving for 1AP and then spending 2APs to shoot a flamer is not "combining" actions.

You cannot put a flamer on overwatch, but that rule is a special rule for flamers which has nothing to do with combining actions.

Look up the FAQ on BGG if you would like citations/support for the above statements.

[LeeSalt]

Cool, thank you for the explanation and the FAQ. I'll take a look. I'm interested in playing the table top one day when I move to a more populated area. My friends like to play Magic but nobody wants to shell out the money for miniatures.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by porkfat:

I
...
4th: This was never explained and I found out the hard way: You can only reload the assault cannon once? I didn't realize you wasted all previous ammo and only got to do it once. My heavy gunner could have survived if I had known that and it was ever explained in-game.
...

OMG really? I don't remember if I did reload 2 time or not (in case it's possible) but if you can't, that unit is a total crap and a burden.

[Evlyn M]

You can only reload the AC one time. And after you reload it, you now risk seeing it explode on triples.

Play as the genestealers and you will understand why terminators can only reload the AC once. ;)

[Dorok]

Or it's a way to provide a very different map and offer a good opportunity to bash your friend right in front because he obviously has no fairplay attitude, he's probably a cheater and a manipulator so he worth it.

[◯ | The Dildozer]

1st: Just seems as tho it was something left out as it says about what the Assault Cannon needs to kill

2nd: Most of its been covered, the wording hasnt been explained properly... you can move THEN fire, but not move AND fire (if you check the WatchItPlayed theres an Update right at the end saying this)

3rd: as described above :)

4th: The Assault Cannon Entry in the Game Manual clearer states 2x10 rounds, & after reloading, if you roll 3 Dice the same he dies with 4+ on any model adjecent :)

youd be lucky to find the boardgame now, its 4 years out of print... quite expensive unless you can find it somehow :)

[Thing What Kicks]

Originally posted by porkfat:

To me and many others online, it seems to say that you cannot move and shoot or shoot then move, or melee or guard at all. Flamers can't go into overwatch.

If I am wrong, what, exactly, is it talking about when it says it can't combine any other action? Just the free fire on move? What else is there that it can't combine with?

Read the sections on firing the Storm Bolter and AC:

"A Space Marine can combine a move or turn action with firing a storm bolter..."
"A Space Marine can combine a move or a turn action with firing an assault cannon..."

In this context, it's clear that the Flamer rule, "This cannot be combined with any other action" is referring to the Move + Fire combination. It's not saying you can't fire the Flamer as one action and them move or turn or whatever as another action.

If people are playing that if you fire the Flamer it can't do anything else that turn, they are totally playing it wrong.

All the other points you make are known and intentional except for #3, this was brought up to the devs with the FAQ explanations, and I believe they are going to change it.

Yes, Storm Bolter hits on a 6 (5+ with sustained fire)...apparently this isn't in the videogame manual. Also, FYI, the Flamer hits on a 2+.

Also, FYI, the Broodlord does have the "Hard to Kill" ability as per the boardgame--even though it too is not documented in the manual.

[LeeSalt]

Originally posted by DesTreMic:

4th: The Assault Cannon Entry in the Game Manual clearer states 2x10 rounds, & after reloading, if you roll 3 Dice the same he dies with 4+ on any model adjecent :)

youd be lucky to find the boardgame now, its 4 years out of print... quite expensive unless you can find it somehow :)

My apologies, your're correct, it does say that in the manual. I just wish there was some indication of it in-game. I got to a good point to reload in between waves of GS so I reloaded only to realize that I wasted 5 shots and didn't have any more reloads to handle the objective of "kill 36 GS" so I had to wait for the GS to make their way up to my overwatch ambush from the rest of the players.

One more thing I found: If you have 2 sergeants, shouldn't you be able to reroll CP a second time? Or is it only 1 reroll regardless of how many sergeants?

[Thing What Kicks]

Originally posted by porkfat:

One more thing I found: If you have 2 sergeants, shouldn't you be able to reroll CP a second time? Or is it only 1 reroll regardless of how many sergeants?

Rulebook: "As long as there is at least one Space Marine Sergeant on the board, then the Space marine player may choose to return the command counter he has drawn...and draw a replacement counter."

In the 1st ed., you got 30 seconds extra time PER sergeant. In the 3rd ed. you only get 1 chance to redraw even if you have both out.

[Zuggi]

There are definetely areas where we can communicate changes better as well rules that are already in there. Most "issues" have been adressed here and as far as I recall the clearing jams for 1ap was implemented for balance . Mr. Silver would know for sure.

We also talked about having the rules at hand in-game as a wii of sorts, but would as many other things require programming time.

[Thing What Kicks]

Originally posted by Zuggi:

There are definetely areas where we can communicate changes better as well rules that are already in there. Most "issues" have been adressed here and as far as I recall the clearing jams for 1ap was implemented for balance . Mr. Silver would know for sure.

We also talked about having the rules at hand in-game as a wii of sorts, but would as many other things require programming time.

<3

[LeeSalt]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. I should have gone over the sticky threads more thoroughly prior to posting.