A Consistent Way to Access Super Items?

[Trashbag]

I wouldn't mind the fact they're entirely random if so many of them weren't so potentially game-changing for a run. Like, I don't need them to win a Hard run, but I want to play around and make new builds with them, man...!

They're giga-strong, so you should definitely only be able to get one - just like Super Collabs. My thought is that instead of getting one golden hammer at either level 50 OR three collabs, you're guaranteed one for both conditions. Then you can use it to either forge a Super Collab, or turn a maxed item into a Super Item.

I think this would be a pretty balanced way to do it, since that keeps the player from having a Super item and a Super Collab until very late into the game - if at all, for Stage Mode.

[catromaji]

If they continue adding harder stages, I don't see why they couldn't add the ability to upgrade your items to super items, or even have more than one super collab to do the whole power creep thing with newer, harder stages.

[Rantzas]

Why take away the RNG element of the game? By making it so that you can get one every run you will make the feeling of getting a rare super item become meh.

[Bewul]

I think a way to upgrade ONE item to a super item would be good., personally. And if you don't like that, nothing says it has to take away the random chance to find it in the wild. Just that you can only have 1 super item total. (so if you find one, can't upgrade another item to super, and viceversa)

[HeraldOfOpera]

The point of them is that they're overpowered but you can't get them consistently. If you took away the second part, you'd also have to take away the first.

[D.K.O.]

I see super items as a fun way to encourage you to improvise, adapt the build you had planned. Making them in any way reliable would drastically change their role in the game.

[Sauske]

Originally posted by Bewul:

I think a way to upgrade ONE item to a super item would be good., personally. And if you don't like that, nothing says it has to take away the random chance to find it in the wild. Just that you can only have 1 super item total. (so if you find one, can't upgrade another item to super, and viceversa)

But you can have multiple super items though.

[| JDAM | 3A9]

I think we shouldn't have a way to get consistent Super Feather and ONLY Super Feather. It is too good.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by ndlewin:

I think we shouldn't have a way to get consistent Super Feather and ONLY Super Feather. It is too good.

Honestly I think that could be an issue in itself.

Add consistent methods to access Super Items; nerf Super Items that are head-and-shoulders better than their peers.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by D.K.O.:

I see super items as a fun way to encourage you to improvise, adapt the build you had planned. Making them in any way reliable would drastically change their role in the game.

I've only got 35 hours in the game so far, but I think I'd prefer that honestly.

As it stands, Super Items now tend to just show up in 1 of 3 of my games, and I swear that half the time when they do, it's something that I drop because it doesn't even synergize with my build. No, I don't want Super Limiter taking up a slot on my crit build.

Having Super Items be consistently accessible - and limiting the player to having one (or maybe 2 if you pass up a Super Collab? idk about that one though) - blows the door wide open on the breadth of character builds you can go for. And with minimal implementation. Like...a Special Spam build with Super Idol Costume and a Special Spam build with Super Beetle (whenever it's implemented) would be two entirely different builds.

[Trashbag]

I originally thought about not mentioning my alternative idea for Super Item implementation, but another way we could run it is to give players the ability to use anvils to get them - inverting enhancement by starting with a 5% chance to turn a maxed item super, and increasing that chance by 5% for each attempt on that item.

I'm not a big fan of this one, though, because it heavily encourages players to waste *a lot* of anvils trying to roll for supers. And alternatively, there's a non-zero chance to turn all your items super in one run and completely break the game on RNG alone.

[Sukaiba]

The best compromise I can reach is that the less Items you have, the higher the chance that you get a Supa, and viceversa
But that would require either a Skip option on the Level up choices or a player to funnel all their upgrades into their Subs, while also dropping any Items they get from Holozon crates

[Shinneh]

I feel like the point of these games is to become an unstoppable ball of death hoovering up rainbows of goodies.

I don't know that the "balance" has to be that deep. Ok so one super item is better than the rest, if you want to take that one every single time, that sounds like a you problem?

My solution would be either a super collab style item, or an expensive one time use super item ticket from the shop as a gold sink that boosts your chance for one run or somesuch, or, just a sandbox mode, that doesn't count for anything but fun.

[Hawkeye]

You can easily say the same thing about stickers, some of them are essential for certain builds (*cough*moneyfarming*cough*). The more things you can access directly and not through chance makes each game feel more boring because there is no variety.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by Shinneh:

I feel like the point of these games is to become an unstoppable ball of death hoovering up rainbows of goodies.

I don't know that the "balance" has to be that deep. Ok so one super item is better than the rest, if you want to take that one every single time, that sounds like a you problem?

My solution would be either a super collab style item, or an expensive one time use super item ticket from the shop as a gold sink that boosts your chance for one run or somesuch, or, just a sandbox mode, that doesn't count for anything but fun.

Balance factors into fun, but balance isn't the primary concern.

It's not "fun" getting one super item every three runs and throwing it out because it does nothing for your build.

[Trashbag]

Originally posted by Hawkeye:

You can easily say the same thing about stickers, some of them are essential for certain builds (*cough*moneyfarming*cough*). The more things you can access directly and not through chance makes each game feel more boring because there is no variety.

False equivalence. You can't control *when* you get every sticker, but you will see all of them throughout the run.

And honestly, I wouldn't mind if those were controlled, too. As it stands, they're kind of an annoying extra pause on top of the level ups and the anvils and the boxes, and even when I ignore them, the arrows just clog up my screen. Or at least didn't have this entirely independent system from other mechanics.

As for more controlled elements making each game feel more boring, Team Fortress 2 and Deep Rock Galactic and Warhammer 40k Darktide would like a word.

There's already plenty of randomness in the level up system alone. When you get a good super, it almost feels like you've cheated the run with RNG. When you get a bad super, it feels bad because you know it won't do anything for your build and you're better off tossing it. Right now, the best runs are when I forget they exist at all, and that feels like a waste.