Kusogaki shackles' ability

[SinSZ]

The item at max level negates negative effects of other items. Is Halu's "fans become X% stronger" effect considered a "negative effect" for this situation? I ask this because all other negative effects items have a red number and Halu has it as well so I wonder if it could be included for a farming build.

[Jarek Grimlock]

Kusogaki Shackles removes negatives applied to you. However Halu applies the negative on the Fans so the negative stays from Halu.

[Shirojacky]

Halu is unaffected by anything, and that's by design. Which is why, as Jarek pointed out, the Shackles specifically reduce/remove negative effects that apply to the player, not enemies.

[Volodesi]

It doesn't work on Character skills also. I tried them out with Anya's Sleep. But, it doesn't remove the stacking damage down.

Would be super OP if it did though.

[Venny]

The shackle is already strong enough by removing any negative effects from items on the player character. Those items with negative effects have such effects for balance, and removing them makes them so much better. More of such items you acquire, more powerful the shackle becomes. There's no reason to make the shackle any stronger, by making it effect negative effects outside of the player character, as that would simple make it too broken and powerful.

[AnonTwo]

Originally posted by Venny:

The shackle is already strong enough by removing any negative effects from items on the player character. Those items with negative effects have such effects for balance, and removing them makes them so much better. More of such items you acquire, more powerful the shackle becomes. There's no reason to make the shackle any stronger, by making it effect negative effects outside of the player character, as that would simple make it too broken and powerful.

Ehh....

I usually find the shackle builds to be the worst builds honestly. Because Glasses and Halu (an item with no negative effect, and an item unaffected by shackle) are still the best combo for getting a huge level difference.

Getting a full kusogaki build takes too long without them, and with them there's a lot of non-negative items that are perfectly competitive with kusogaki (like most of the defensive items except breastplate, and breastplates negative effect isn't even bad enough to need shackle)

Like by the time you have the core items for leveling you just don't have enough slots to justify the shackle.

[Intra]

Originally posted by Venny:

The shackle is already strong enough

Then why do I never pick it? Since the items with penalties also tend to suck?

The standard build now is:
Study Glasses / Researcher's Coat(or Halu) / Uber Sheep / USUALLY Focus Shades / USUALLY Hope Soda / USUALLY PPP / and the final replacement slot can either be Full Meal or Plushie.

Why would I want to waste the final slot on Kusogaki Shackles for Hope Soda's penalty? And in Endless, probably get rid of Hope Soda for both Plushie and Full Meal? And get rid of PPP or Focus Shades for Headphones? Or if Skill is a higher damage then Beetle?

Like, two slots are set in stone for EXP. So that's 3 slots to use Kusogaki for. What would that be, Candy, Gorilla Paw, Hope Soda? How is that better than the above?

Breastplate's speed penalty doesn't even matter. Who cares about minus speed?

Kusogaki could be a 1 level item with 100% reduction to penalty and I still wouldn't use it.

[AnonTwo]

I wonder

Would Shackle be better if it also removed penalty effects like sake and researcher coat, keeping them at full bonus?

[Toxi The Vagrant]

Originally posted by AnonTwo:

I wonder

Would Shackle be better if it also removed penalty effects like sake and researcher coat, keeping them at full bonus?

Honestly, the core issue with Kusogaki is that it's consuming a slot to negate the downsides of items which either have other means of negation (Super collab for Gorilla paw), don't have particularly major downsides (armor), or have downsides that can be turned into upsides (hope soda and pill), on top of that, if you pick Kusogaki and don't get any of the negative effect items for the rest of the run, you just decidedly lost an item slot.

Even making it negate penalties wouldn't do it much favor, as sake can have it's penalty negated, and research coat is good even when not at full HP since it's percentage based.

I think what it needs is a second effect that isn't unwelcome, like maybe giving it a Hidden Weapon Effect or giving it a stat bonus which increases the more downsides it negates.