What happend to the game?

[SMUUTI]

So i played first one and it was great. Couple of same-s.e.x.-lovers and all that and it was great. Now this game...So many female leaders. Most of the flight record data thingies from female. Tribe and clan leaders mostly female. I dont mind female leaders and there are fine females out there, but so many...and from a "caveman era" perspective i would doubt this is real. We all know that men are physically stronger (most of times), but in this game they mostly on the ground or portrayed in a bad way.

And on that note whats up with so many g.a.y characters. And not a single midget in the game. Male and female and even for Aloy with Seika there is really not an option and all road lead to one outcome. I mean if you choose fist option with Regalla, she dies, but with Seika you just miss a kiss and that is pretty much it. But there is no option to be romancy with sun-king for example. But yeah you have a ton of "them" even in your final battle team, and not a single midget. And only one cripple thruout. And one with hint of a downs syndrome (the boom sister). Now mind you all i dont care who someone loves as long as its not forced. But in this case you cant get achivement if you dont do the t.r.a.n.n.y.g.u.y quest for example.

Back to men and women and good and bad. Most of the time the diverse characters are all colors. But the worst of the worst (zeniths) are white. I think they have one black guy and one asian. Rest are white men who are evil. Am i overthinking it or is this also bit of politically driven to do it this way? Even the DLC main baddie...straight white man.

I really like the game idea and the setup. Controls at time were bit clunky and some missions bit bugged like melee pit thing. I finished it with all quests done (including DLC) and now im tryng to get all achivements on new game+. But im only doing so because im completionist or least try to be when i play a game. I would not buy again and i was too deep in the game when i understood, its too much female power, men weak and bad (especially white ones), veganism rules game for me. And i was too deep because as soon as i get free roam i want to discover all locations, do side stuff before tackling main quest.

And whats up with Nil. I killed in my first game and now he racing.

Also i have couple of questions about story if someone has made it this far. First how did Ted got to Thebes? I understood that they were last people in that bunker where Sobek saved them all and Ted killed them. I understood that machines had already taken the world.
Second Gaia told that it could use all the functions. In the end 2 are missing. I figured it was Hephistos and Apollo. But then i taught Aloy killed the Hades. So im confused what Gaia has in the end and i do remember something about Hephistos getting away from Zenith place. And did Gaia got the learning stuff from the Zeniths that Ted deleted?

And lastly why did not Sylenes became immortal. Seemed like he would have wanted it plus he smart so i bet he would have figured it out how and then help earth. And as i understand Gaia can make a copy of herself. Why not let those who want leave earth with copy of Gaia to get away from Nemesis and those who want let them fight it. So it would be double survival chance if one front fails. Even better if Sylenes goes with a group to space and Aloy stays. Both are smart. We saw that end-goal for both was same so i would like to think that both Sylens and Aloy succeed making a new colony and having earth.

[BeefoTheBold]

Putting something a slightly different way about gay protagonists btw...

Technically speaking, if one in ten people are gay, then "realistically" we should expect one out of every ten video game protagonists to be gay too.

I'm willing to wager huge sums of money that it is nowhere close to that. Otherwise it wouldn't be such a big deal for some people that Aloy is gay.

(Or at least bi, but probably gay since we haven't seen her express any interest in the various dudes she meets. Although she does look a bit wistful when she sees Varl's relationship with Zo, but I interpreted that as being lonely and wishing she had more options of her own than she does rather than sadness that she missed her chance with Varl.)

[FFox]

Trust me, after playing HZD twice I couldnt believe how BAD the HFW plot actually is. Poor (to not say dumb and hollow) writting, poor climbing mechanics. The game takes your attention elsewhere with silly stuff which probably no one cares, stuff which adds absolutely nothing to the game. And the end? I have no words than it left a bitter taste. Im kinda dissapointed, when the bar is set too high, sequels like these make you crash into a wall. The game overall is boring

[WreckWren]

I really enjoyed HFW, no ifs or buts (well, story-wise, anyway).
That said, it's so tiring how there are still some people (in an ever shrinking minority, thankfully) who see that someone didn't enjoy some aspects of a game, and come rushing in to vomit their entire political echo chamber at them.

[teg]

It's called Character Arc.

It's the cheapest kind of character arc. Take a good character, turn them into an a-hole in the sequel so they can re-grow into the same person they were at the end of the first game. I'm guessing she was too good at the end of ZD so they had to take her down a notch to raise her back up again. That's how poor writers handle it.

I found her screaming at Silens to be incredibly childish. Not something the Aloy of ZD would have done. The way she treated her clone was also petulant and childish. I have no problem with her wanting to go it alone. She is the great savior after all who's very blood is necessary for the plot to happen.

The only character in the game she really needed was Silens. To make the anti-shield Mcguffin to counter the invincible shield Mcguffin. Instead of an epic battle with the Zenith, 90% were wiped out off screen. Like Teds bunker, there was much buildup, followed by disappointment because the final result was lacking.

3. Actually, Aloy's sexuality is pretty damn central to the plot given it is central to the Tilda/Elisabet Sobeck relationship...of which Aloy is a clone of the latter.

First Aloy was gay, then they wrote a plot around that point. The plot would have still worked even if she wasn't gay. Tilda could have been even creepier trying to convert an ambiguous Aloy. Her being gay wasn't a requirement for this subplot to happen.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. It's opinions. It's OK if we don't think the same. I was deeply disappointed by FW.

[teg]

Technically speaking, if one in ten people are gay, then "realistically" we should expect one out of every ten video game protagonists to be gay too.

Is "Doom Guy" gay? It never came up and it doesn't matter. Is "Gordon Freeman" gay? The same, it never came up and doesn't matter.

Why it matters in FW is that it was put front and center including uncomfortable PDA too. I don't need to know the sexuality of my in game avatar. Leaving it unsaid lets me just play the game.

Aloy's sexuality shouldn't matter. It could stay off screen.

Edit: I don't want too see hetero couples sucking face in my games either. I don't need PDA in my games.

[BeefoTheBold]

Originally posted by teg:

Technically speaking, if one in ten people are gay, then "realistically" we should expect one out of every ten video game protagonists to be gay too.

Is "Doom Guy" gay? It never came up and it doesn't matter. Is "Gordon Freeman" gay? The same, it never came up and doesn't matter.

Why it matters in FW is that it was put front and center including uncomfortable PDA too. I don't need to know the sexuality of my in game avatar. Leaving it unsaid lets me just play the game.

Aloy's sexuality shouldn't matter. It could stay off screen.

Edit: I don't want too see hetero couples sucking face in my games either. I don't need PDA in my games.

Well sure, if you are going to say ZERO romance in games, then that's at least consistent, but I'm betting you haven't raised a similar stink about heterosexual romance in games before despite what you say here because they're in the majority of narrative and character driven games...including this one.

For example, I don't see you complaining about the Varl/Zo romance in the game which is far more blatant.

Honestly, if you don't want romance in your games, then you should be complaining about it EVERYWHERE because it IS everywhere. Most major story based games have romance in them because that is one of the fundamental parts of the human condition. Were you all over the Mass Effect forums complaining? I doubt it.

Also, in particular Aloy's sexuality IS central to the story because she is a clone of Elisabet Sobeck.

And Elisabet Sobeck had a romance with Tilda Swinden the Far Zenith. It is a big reason why Elisabet allowed Tilda a copy of Apollo to take with her on the Odyssey and forgave the Zeniths' attempt to steal Gaia when Travis caught them. It is why Tilda saves Aloy when the Zeniths are about to win during the capture of Hephaestus because she still has a thing for Elisabet centuries later and wants a relationship with Aloy since she seems to be as close to the "real" Elisabet as she's going to get.

Those are huge consequences to the narrative that partially (in the case of Elisabet) and fully happen (in the case of Tilda) because Elisabet and her clones are gay. Tilda's sexual preference for Aloy is the main reason she betrays the other Zeniths!

Ultimately, there ARE games out there that have no romance whatsoever in them, gay or straight as you pointed out. But, here's the thing, NOT EVERY GAME is going to cater specifically to you.

If seeing a single onscreen kiss after, like, 100+ hours of game, is so horrifying for you that it literally makes it impossible for you to play as Aloy anymore well...there are other games out there!

I know that "Call of Duty" games aren't for me. They don't suit my tastes. So I don't play them, and I don't spend time on Call of Duty forums insisting that they change to accommodate my tastes so that I'll play them.

[teg]

then that's at least consistent, but I'm betting you haven't raised a similar stink about heterosexual romance in games

And you'd be wrong. The "romance" in "Days Gone" was at least partially why it was a less than stellar game. They did the same thing in "Days Gone" they did in H:FW. The emoting was painfully cringe and unskippable. It wasn't necessary for the game. It wasn't necessary to belabor the point.

Those are huge consequences to the narrative that partially (in the case of Elisabet) and fully happen (in the case of Tilda) because Elisabet and her clones are gay.

My take on Tilda was that she was a predator. She wanted Aloy and the clone whether they were gay or not. She's one of the more evil characters in the game. You could feel her insanity every time she was on screen. You act like she was looking for some sort of sweet romance. She needed to be put down no differently than a male predator.

If seeing a single onscreen kiss after, like, 100+ hours of game, is so horrifying for you that it literally makes it impossible for you to play as Aloy anymore well...there are other games out there!

If I play a romance game, I'd expect something like that. In an open world action pseudo-RPG like Horizon, it's just gratuitous.

Edit:

For example, I don't see you complaining about the Varl/Zo romance in the game which is far more blatant.

Man, I skipped past those cut scenes so fast I forgot about that. All of her "companions" were annoying as hell. I tried to avoid them when possible. You're right, I didn't want to see that either.

[Cl0udyyBeatzz]

Originally posted by SMUUTI:

So i played first one and it was great. Couple of same-s.e.x.-lovers and all that and it was great. Now this game...So many female leaders. Most of the flight record data thingies from female. Tribe and clan leaders mostly female. I dont mind female leaders and there are fine females out there, but so many...and from a "caveman era" perspective i would doubt this is real. We all know that men are physically stronger (most of times), but in this game they mostly on the ground or portrayed in a bad way.

And on that note whats up with so many g.a.y characters. And not a single midget in the game. Male and female and even for Aloy with Seika there is really not an option and all road lead to one outcome. I mean if you choose fist option with Regalla, she dies, but with Seika you just miss a kiss and that is pretty much it. But there is no option to be romancy with sun-king for example. But yeah you have a ton of "them" even in your final battle team, and not a single midget. And only one cripple thruout. And one with hint of a downs syndrome (the boom sister). Now mind you all i dont care who someone loves as long as its not forced. But in this case you cant get achivement if you dont do the t.r.a.n.n.y.g.u.y quest for example.

Back to men and women and good and bad. Most of the time the diverse characters are all colors. But the worst of the worst (zeniths) are white. I think they have one black guy and one asian. Rest are white men who are evil. Am i overthinking it or is this also bit of politically driven to do it this way? Even the DLC main baddie...straight white man.

I really like the game idea and the setup. Controls at time were bit clunky and some missions bit bugged like melee pit thing. I finished it with all quests done (including DLC) and now im tryng to get all achivements on new game+. But im only doing so because im completionist or least try to be when i play a game. I would not buy again and i was too deep in the game when i understood, its too much female power, men weak and bad (especially white ones), veganism rules game for me. And i was too deep because as soon as i get free roam i want to discover all locations, do side stuff before tackling main quest.

And whats up with Nil. I killed in my first game and now he racing.

Also i have couple of questions about story if someone has made it this far. First how did Ted got to Thebes? I understood that they were last people in that bunker where Sobek saved them all and Ted killed them. I understood that machines had already taken the world.
Second Gaia told that it could use all the functions. In the end 2 are missing. I figured it was Hephistos and Apollo. But then i taught Aloy killed the Hades. So im confused what Gaia has in the end and i do remember something about Hephistos getting away from Zenith place. And did Gaia got the learning stuff from the Zeniths that Ted deleted?

And lastly why did not Sylenes became immortal. Seemed like he would have wanted it plus he smart so i bet he would have figured it out how and then help earth. And as i understand Gaia can make a copy of herself. Why not let those who want leave earth with copy of Gaia to get away from Nemesis and those who want let them fight it. So it would be double survival chance if one front fails. Even better if Sylenes goes with a group to space and Aloy stays. Both are smart. We saw that end-goal for both was same so i would like to think that both Sylens and Aloy succeed making a new colony and having earth.

go cry abt it

[Cl0udyyBeatzz]

Originally posted by Cl0udyyBeatzz:

Originally posted by SMUUTI:

So i played first one and it was great. Couple of same-s.e.x.-lovers and all that and it was great. Now this game...So many female leaders. Most of the flight record data thingies from female. Tribe and clan leaders mostly female. I dont mind female leaders and there are fine females out there, but so many...and from a "caveman era" perspective i would doubt this is real. We all know that men are physically stronger (most of times), but in this game they mostly on the ground or portrayed in a bad way.

And on that note whats up with so many g.a.y characters. And not a single midget in the game. Male and female and even for Aloy with Seika there is really not an option and all road lead to one outcome. I mean if you choose fist option with Regalla, she dies, but with Seika you just miss a kiss and that is pretty much it. But there is no option to be romancy with sun-king for example. But yeah you have a ton of "them" even in your final battle team, and not a single midget. And only one cripple thruout. And one with hint of a downs syndrome (the boom sister). Now mind you all i dont care who someone loves as long as its not forced. But in this case you cant get achivement if you dont do the t.r.a.n.n.y.g.u.y quest for example.

Back to men and women and good and bad. Most of the time the diverse characters are all colors. But the worst of the worst (zeniths) are white. I think they have one black guy and one asian. Rest are white men who are evil. Am i overthinking it or is this also bit of politically driven to do it this way? Even the DLC main baddie...straight white man.

I really like the game idea and the setup. Controls at time were bit clunky and some missions bit bugged like melee pit thing. I finished it with all quests done (including DLC) and now im tryng to get all achivements on new game+. But im only doing so because im completionist or least try to be when i play a game. I would not buy again and i was too deep in the game when i understood, its too much female power, men weak and bad (especially white ones), veganism rules game for me. And i was too deep because as soon as i get free roam i want to discover all locations, do side stuff before tackling main quest.

And whats up with Nil. I killed in my first game and now he racing.

Also i have couple of questions about story if someone has made it this far. First how did Ted got to Thebes? I understood that they were last people in that bunker where Sobek saved them all and Ted killed them. I understood that machines had already taken the world.
Second Gaia told that it could use all the functions. In the end 2 are missing. I figured it was Hephistos and Apollo. But then i taught Aloy killed the Hades. So im confused what Gaia has in the end and i do remember something about Hephistos getting away from Zenith place. And did Gaia got the learning stuff from the Zeniths that Ted deleted?

And lastly why did not Sylenes became immortal. Seemed like he would have wanted it plus he smart so i bet he would have figured it out how and then help earth. And as i understand Gaia can make a copy of herself. Why not let those who want leave earth with copy of Gaia to get away from Nemesis and those who want let them fight it. So it would be double survival chance if one front fails. Even better if Sylenes goes with a group to space and Aloy stays. Both are smart. We saw that end-goal for both was same so i would like to think that both Sylens and Aloy succeed making a new colony and having earth.

go cry abt it

and btw our world is ruled my mostly men so where is your take abt that? It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fiction or is your house surrounded by robot dinosours?

[Cl0udyyBeatzz]

Originally posted by Cl0udyyBeatzz:

Originally posted by SMUUTI:

So i played first one and it was great. Couple of same-s.e.x.-lovers and all that and it was great. Now this game...So many female leaders. Most of the flight record data thingies from female. Tribe and clan leaders mostly female. I dont mind female leaders and there are fine females out there, but so many...and from a "caveman era" perspective i would doubt this is real. We all know that men are physically stronger (most of times), but in this game they mostly on the ground or portrayed in a bad way.

And on that note whats up with so many g.a.y characters. And not a single midget in the game. Male and female and even for Aloy with Seika there is really not an option and all road lead to one outcome. I mean if you choose fist option with Regalla, she dies, but with Seika you just miss a kiss and that is pretty much it. But there is no option to be romancy with sun-king for example. But yeah you have a ton of "them" even in your final battle team, and not a single midget. And only one cripple thruout. And one with hint of a downs syndrome (the boom sister). Now mind you all i dont care who someone loves as long as its not forced. But in this case you cant get achivement if you dont do the t.r.a.n.n.y.g.u.y quest for example.

Back to men and women and good and bad. Most of the time the diverse characters are all colors. But the worst of the worst (zeniths) are white. I think they have one black guy and one asian. Rest are white men who are evil. Am i overthinking it or is this also bit of politically driven to do it this way? Even the DLC main baddie...straight white man.

I really like the game idea and the setup. Controls at time were bit clunky and some missions bit bugged like melee pit thing. I finished it with all quests done (including DLC) and now im tryng to get all achivements on new game+. But im only doing so because im completionist or least try to be when i play a game. I would not buy again and i was too deep in the game when i understood, its too much female power, men weak and bad (especially white ones), veganism rules game for me. And i was too deep because as soon as i get free roam i want to discover all locations, do side stuff before tackling main quest.

And whats up with Nil. I killed in my first game and now he racing.

Also i have couple of questions about story if someone has made it this far. First how did Ted got to Thebes? I understood that they were last people in that bunker where Sobek saved them all and Ted killed them. I understood that machines had already taken the world.
Second Gaia told that it could use all the functions. In the end 2 are missing. I figured it was Hephistos and Apollo. But then i taught Aloy killed the Hades. So im confused what Gaia has in the end and i do remember something about Hephistos getting away from Zenith place. And did Gaia got the learning stuff from the Zeniths that Ted deleted?

And lastly why did not Sylenes became immortal. Seemed like he would have wanted it plus he smart so i bet he would have figured it out how and then help earth. And as i understand Gaia can make a copy of herself. Why not let those who want leave earth with copy of Gaia to get away from Nemesis and those who want let them fight it. So it would be double survival chance if one front fails. Even better if Sylenes goes with a group to space and Aloy stays. Both are smart. We saw that end-goal for both was same so i would like to think that both Sylens and Aloy succeed making a new colony and having earth.

go cry abt it

omg and it's not caveman era

Originally posted by SMUUTI:

So i played first one and it was great. Couple of same-s.e.x.-lovers and all that and it was great. Now this game...So many female leaders. Most of the flight record data thingies from female. Tribe and clan leaders mostly female. I dont mind female leaders and there are fine females out there, but so many...and from a "caveman era" perspective i would doubt this is real. We all know that men are physically stronger (most of times), but in this game they mostly on the ground or portrayed in a bad way.

And on that note whats up with so many g.a.y characters. And not a single midget in the game. Male and female and even for Aloy with Seika there is really not an option and all road lead to one outcome. I mean if you choose fist option with Regalla, she dies, but with Seika you just miss a kiss and that is pretty much it. But there is no option to be romancy with sun-king for example. But yeah you have a ton of "them" even in your final battle team, and not a single midget. And only one cripple thruout. And one with hint of a downs syndrome (the boom sister). Now mind you all i dont care who someone loves as long as its not forced. But in this case you cant get achivement if you dont do the t.r.a.n.n.y.g.u.y quest for example.

Back to men and women and good and bad. Most of the time the diverse characters are all colors. But the worst of the worst (zeniths) are white. I think they have one black guy and one asian. Rest are white men who are evil. Am i overthinking it or is this also bit of politically driven to do it this way? Even the DLC main baddie...straight white man.

I really like the game idea and the setup. Controls at time were bit clunky and some missions bit bugged like melee pit thing. I finished it with all quests done (including DLC) and now im tryng to get all achivements on new game+. But im only doing so because im completionist or least try to be when i play a game. I would not buy again and i was too deep in the game when i understood, its too much female power, men weak and bad (especially white ones), veganism rules game for me. And i was too deep because as soon as i get free roam i want to discover all locations, do side stuff before tackling main quest.

And whats up with Nil. I killed in my first game and now he racing.

Also i have couple of questions about story if someone has made it this far. First how did Ted got to Thebes? I understood that they were last people in that bunker where Sobek saved them all and Ted killed them. I understood that machines had already taken the world.
Second Gaia told that it could use all the functions. In the end 2 are missing. I figured it was Hephistos and Apollo. But then i taught Aloy killed the Hades. So im confused what Gaia has in the end and i do remember something about Hephistos getting away from Zenith place. And did Gaia got the learning stuff from the Zeniths that Ted deleted?

And lastly why did not Sylenes became immortal. Seemed like he would have wanted it plus he smart so i bet he would have figured it out how and then help earth. And as i understand Gaia can make a copy of herself. Why not let those who want leave earth with copy of Gaia to get away from Nemesis and those who want let them fight it. So it would be double survival chance if one front fails. Even better if Sylenes goes with a group to space and Aloy stays. Both are smart. We saw that end-goal for both was same so i would like to think that both Sylens and Aloy succeed making a new colony and having earth.

okay and for the last it's not caveman era, it's happening after us and it's proven that woman would probably live longer and that they are basically the superior gender. Yes a male is often stronger but proven by your own post, males have a lack of inteligence 💀

[Doug Masters]

Im pretty resistant to woke nonsense and I dont see it

[longjohn119]

The original nations of North America were matrilineal meaning it doesn't matter who your father is but who your mother is. Take the Iroquois for example, the Clan Mothers picked the Sachems (chiefs) and they alone had the power to impeach a Sachem. (When helping to write the US Constitution Benjamin Franklin got the idea for the impeachment clause from the Iroquois who he spent time with and studied their form of government) You see this dynamic in the game with the Nora tribe and I bet they got that idea from reading about the Iroquois. In the Dakotah (Sioux) nations when you married you would go to your wife's band instead of she coming to your band. You don't dare slap around your wife or abuse her when you have to deal with her father, uncles, and brothers next door and you have no backup. Europeans thought that Indian women were subservient because when they traveled the woman would walk a few paces behind her husband but the real reason for that is men are expendable and would be expected to sacrifice themselves to protect the women. If there was going to be an ambush then they were going to get hit first. Reasoning for that being if you have 10 women and 1 man you can start a tribe but if you have 10 men and only one woman then you are going extinct ..... Women are more important than men in the eyes of most American Indian nations and they held a lot more power than most people realize.

[The Rain King]

If you actually care about a video game character's sexuality the issue is with you. Plain and simple. Personal introspection would be a good place to start.

[SMUUTI]

A lot of people commenting. Firstly...yes it is a caveman era. Aloy proves "landgod" is just a machine, but Zo and other still worship it. Its caveman era with machines. They worship sun and stuff like that. And it was also annoyng to me that there is someone that can and proves there is no god and GAIA is AI and people are still beliving in god

And someone say that there is no problem with Varl and Zo. I mean good for them. Someone hs to populate new earth and they have barely been together for few weeks most and already she is with child.

I dont like that i cant choose for my character. Yeah Elisabet might have been gay, but im playng Aloy and maybe i like someone else. I do not like being forced to be gay

All said and done i never told cancel the game or anything. All i say is this game is not for me and i wrote about my experience. To me there still was too much female influence, too many diversity and things that push certain agendas

Edit! And yes Zo is annoyng in multible front. The battle with Erik she's like "yeah i'll be there" and then i do all the fighting and she sneaks up on him like a coward and stabs Him. (bad word) Zo didnt help me or anything and then takes the credit for it like she was always there and stuff. Hated that scene. And Zo for these reasons

[Holografix]

Originally posted by teg:

Is "Doom Guy" gay? It never came up and it doesn't matter. Is "Gordon Freeman" gay? The same, it never came up and doesn't matter.

Apples and oranges. Can't compare those FPS games to Horizon games. If you start with an erroneous premise, the argument fails at the outset.

Try again.