Does alloy shut up in the PC version? (potential buy)

[Helldivers™ 2]

Hi, i want to buy this game but i have seen from PS5 gameplay that alloy destroys all gameplay by constantly talking and giving you the solutions. Is this the case in PC too? I want to buy this but only if I can stop her constant torture.

[ToJKa]

Originally posted by Napalm®:

She talks a lot, esp. if you're stuck on a puzzle ( ), but I like her voice, and delivery is on point, so I'd take it as a plus.

I actually like that. An immersive way to give hints for a puzzle. Not such a fan of speaking the machines' strengths or weaknesses out loud.

RE4 remake had similar thing, Ashley would start giving hints to puzzles if you didn't make progress for some time.

Speaking of speaking, who is her voice actress anyway?

[MancSoulja]

Originally posted by ToJKa:

Speaking of speaking, who is her voice actress anyway?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3950075/

[ToJKa]

Originally posted by MancSoulja:

Originally posted by ToJKa:

Speaking of speaking, who is her voice actress anyway?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3950075/

Wait, she's also Tiny Tina? Never made that connection

[Alcator]

So, this is one of the most "cursed" problems in game development:

Providing hints for solving puzzles / progressing through a section in a non-puzzle game. This is a "cursed" problem, because no matter what solution you ultimately implement, there will ALWAYS be players for whom it is too weak (i.e., they wanted the hint to be better, more direct, or to come sooner), and players for whom it is too strong (i.e., they wanted the hint to come later, be less direct etc.)


If you are interested in background explanation, read on:

First, you need to understand what the game looks like for the majority of development:

The graphics is much more simplistic. In the finished game, every surface is 'weathered down' and decorated with plants, paintings, rust etc., but during development this is either not present at all, or it's significantly reduced. Lighting quality is also reduced, locations are typically either full-bright, or at least well lit.
As a consequence, the TESTERS who test the sections during development are able to take in the whole scenery much faster than you in the final product. A tester enters a room and IMMEDIATELY sees that there are two doors leading out. But in the final product, one of the doors may be in a shadow, and the other can be behind some decorative piece of furniture, not to mention five other decorations that are flashing or blinking and thus drawing attention to themselves.

Then, you need to understand how testing and adjustments are done:

Whenever the developers finish the basics of a location, that location goes into testing, where someone who has never seen that area tries to go through it. Companies that adhere to the "Valve methodology" have a strict policy where developers cannot provide any hint to the tester whatsoever, and must watch the tester navigate through the location. So, a tester enters a room where the solution is opening a ceiling vent and jumping into it, but if the tester overlooks the vent, they will be running around hopelessly for long minutes before either abandoning the room, or someone interrupting the test and telling them "There's a vent at the ceiling, did you notice?"

And of course, if this happens to you (as a location designer or whatever) ten, twenty times in a row, you eventually conclude that players are "vertically challenged" and will never look up unless explicitly instructed to do so. (This, by the way, Valve confirmed over and over again during Half-Life and Portal development -- it is IMPOSSIBLE to reliably make players look up)

So, eventually, you establish an internal best practice for 'hint system' that if a solution requires the player to look up, then the game has to tell the player *explicitly* and *immediately*. Because it's better to annoy 1% of players who ALWAYS look up, than to frustrate 90% of players who NEVER look up (the remaining 9% will look up SOMETIMES).

==========
Some games do offer a setting "Hint delay" -- for instance Trine series, a 2D game with linear progression, is known for this. However, this is difficult to implement in a 3D open world game, because in such game, you may not even *realize* that you are at a puzzle location - and 15 seconds later, you may have run 100 meters away from it, or you might have fast traveled to the opposite end of the game world. Should the game say "BTW, a while ago, you were at a spot where there was a vent at the ceiling!"?? What good would that do, right? Without a map ping telling you "This is the vent I'm talking about", it could actually do more harm than good, as you might misinterpret such hint and try to find a vent where there isn't any. And that's even without considering the scenario where you move through multiple puzzle areas in quick succession without realizing it (because Aloy doesn't immediately quip 'I am in a puzzle area, I should look around!'), and then receiving bunch of delayed hints with no reference to the specific location.

I am absolutely certain that Guerilla experimented with how to do this and ultimately decided on the 'since this is primarily an action adventure, let's give more hints, rather than fewer' approach.

For what it's worth, there are three types of BIG puzzle locations in the game -- the Ornaments, the Vistas, and Cauldrons. And while she does provide some hints for these, she only gradually reveals the exact solution, leaving plenty of time to figuring it out on your own.

[MancSoulja]

Originally posted by ToJKa:

Originally posted by MancSoulja:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3950075/

Wait, she's also Tiny Tina? Never made that connection

That's the sign of a good voice actor :D

[MancSoulja]

Originally posted by Deep Rock Galactic:

Originally posted by Alcator:

So, this is one of the most "cursed" problems in game development:

Providing hints for solving puzzles / progressing through a section in a non-puzzle game. This is a "cursed" problem, because no matter what solution you ultimately implement, there will ALWAYS be players for whom it is too weak (i.e., they wanted the hint to be better, more direct, or to come sooner), and players for whom it is too strong (i.e., they wanted the hint to come later, be less direct etc.)


If you are interested in background explanation, read on:

First, you need to understand what the game looks like for the majority of development:

The graphics is much more simplistic. In the finished game, every surface is 'weathered down' and decorated with plants, paintings, rust etc., but during development this is either not present at all, or it's significantly reduced. Lighting quality is also reduced, locations are typically either full-bright, or at least well lit.
As a consequence, the TESTERS who test the sections during development are able to take in the whole scenery much faster than you in the final product. A tester enters a room and IMMEDIATELY sees that there are two doors leading out. But in the final product, one of the doors may be in a shadow, and the other can be behind some decorative piece of furniture, not to mention five other decorations that are flashing or blinking and thus drawing attention to themselves.

Then, you need to understand how testing and adjustments are done:

Whenever the developers finish the basics of a location, that location goes into testing, where someone who has never seen that area tries to go through it. Companies that adhere to the "Valve methodology" have a strict policy where developers cannot provide any hint to the tester whatsoever, and must watch the tester navigate through the location. So, a tester enters a room where the solution is opening a ceiling vent and jumping into it, but if the tester overlooks the vent, they will be running around hopelessly for long minutes before either abandoning the room, or someone interrupting the test and telling them "There's a vent at the ceiling, did you notice?"

And of course, if this happens to you (as a location designer or whatever) ten, twenty times in a row, you eventually conclude that players are "vertically challenged" and will never look up unless explicitly instructed to do so. (This, by the way, Valve confirmed over and over again during Half-Life and Portal development -- it is IMPOSSIBLE to reliably make players look up)

So, eventually, you establish an internal best practice for 'hint system' that if a solution requires the player to look up, then the game has to tell the player *explicitly* and *immediately*. Because it's better to annoy 1% of players who ALWAYS look up, than to frustrate 90% of players who NEVER look up (the remaining 9% will look up SOMETIMES).

==========
Some games do offer a setting "Hint delay" -- for instance Trine series, a 2D game with linear progression, is known for this. However, this is difficult to implement in a 3D open world game, because in such game, you may not even *realize* that you are at a puzzle location - and 15 seconds later, you may have run 100 meters away from it, or you might have fast traveled to the opposite end of the game world. Should the game say "BTW, a while ago, you were at a spot where there was a vent at the ceiling!"?? What good would that do, right? Without a map ping telling you "This is the vent I'm talking about", it could actually do more harm than good, as you might misinterpret such hint and try to find a vent where there isn't any. And that's even without considering the scenario where you move through multiple puzzle areas in quick succession without realizing it (because Aloy doesn't immediately quip 'I am in a puzzle area, I should look around!'), and then receiving bunch of delayed hints with no reference to the specific location.

I am absolutely certain that Guerilla experimented with how to do this and ultimately decided on the 'since this is primarily an action adventure, let's give more hints, rather than fewer' approach.

For what it's worth, there are three types of BIG puzzle locations in the game -- the Ornaments, the Vistas, and Cauldrons. And while she does provide some hints for these, she only gradually reveals the exact solution, leaving plenty of time to figuring it out on your own.

Thanks, very informative.

While everything he said is true and personally, Aloy doesn't annoy me, it would be very easy for them to implement a toggle to toggle hints on or off.

[jhonD]

Yes she talks, 80% less then the chick from WOKESPOKEN(EX FORSPOKEN -SQUARE Enix)

[jhonD]

I mean Alloy just gives tips... lets try that, we should find that, lets hide, they found me out ... tbh is useful sometimes as one of the biggest flows of this game is not telling you what to do... just shows you a point on a map .... OK now waste 15 min searching for sth which is actually under the ground :))

[GoldenDove20]

It's really not that bad, I barely even notice it myself

[White Gemini]

she talks so much i yell at my screen constantly shes a joke, mean while sylens is getting all the info from her while shes talking out loud like the nut job she is

[Syncrosonix]

There is even more chit-chat happening in this game than the previous. Even the side stuff adds a ton of speech. If you buy, skip the majority of the side missions since they suck. The cauldrons are pretty good, though, but there are a coupe that are super annoying.

[Arasine]

Talking to oneself aloud is a sign of mental illness.
I think in the next instalment we discover Aloy is a mental patient in a secure ward and has in fact been hallucinating all along.
The clues are there for all to see.

[Tijger]

Originally posted by Arasine:

Talking to oneself aloud is a sign of mental illness.
I think in the next instalment we discover Aloy is a mental patient in a secure ward and has in fact been hallucinating all along.
The clues are there for all to see.

You are thinking of the TV show Lost :P

[MancSoulja]

Originally posted by Arasine:

Talking to oneself aloud is a sign of mental illness.
I think in the next instalment we discover Aloy is a mental patient in a secure ward and has in fact been hallucinating all along.
The clues are there for all to see.

I talk to myself out loud all the time, you saying I'm crazy? :D

[kingfish_ak]

"I should scan xxxxx...."