When did Aloy become a jerk? AMENDED

[Zeno]

I'm about half-way through the game, and I've noticed Aloy's tendency to be abrupt and abrasive toward others. In one instance she actually destroys a stone wall which protected a settlement, directly and indirectly endangering the lives of all of them just to spite someone.

I was thinking: When did Aloy become such a jerk? and, Is this the beginning of some kind of character arc, where she works through her own issues and becomes a better person?

But then I noticed that she's not a jerk to everyone. She can still be compassionate and caring when she's inclined to be. What gives?

I think I've figured out the pattern: The targets of her abrasiveness are always white men who project any kind of ambition or power, all of whom are cartoonish lampoons of "toxic" masculinity, and all of whom apparently need to be brought low by the avenging angel Aloy.

White men who are weak or meek she merely tolerates, including poor messed-up Erend.

Has anyone else noticed this pattern, or am I seeing something that's not really there?

----
I've now finished the game, and gone back to restart Zero Dawn for good measure, on which basis I'd like to refine my initial post.

First, it's clear from Zero Dawn that it's part of Aloy's character that she does not suffer fools gladly, and she is often abrupt and even contemptuous of the most foolish of the fools.

Second, Aloy does seem to have something of a character arc in this game, coming around to recognizing that she can't be a lone wolf any more, that she needs others to help her. This has the effect of mellowing her a little, as the game goes on.

However, her contempt for certain individuals in Forbidden West has a different feel than comparable instances in Zero Dawn: what would have been an eye-roll and a snarky comment has become open hostility and a will to humiliate the target . . . even, in one instance, by putting an entire settlement at risk of immediate destruction, which is something Aloy in Zero Dawn would never have contemplated.

She would have followed Rost's teaching, and found a different way.

Also, the objects of Aloy's derision in Zero Dawn were generally men, but varied in other respects, including in terms of whatever genetic heritage they may have from the Old Ones (which would almost certainly have become more mixed in the generations since they emerged into the world); some are of indeterminate race, but not obviously European white.

But list all the characters in Forbidden West who are delusional, self-absorbed and mad for power - ridiculous parodies of "toxic masculinity" - and you may note that they are, to a one, pale-complected men whose ancient ancestors were probably all from Europe. Even just in Burning Shores, consider the Compliance Officer and Londra himself.

(So, not all white men in the game are toxic - the Admiral seems like a decent enough chap, for example - but all the most toxic people in the game are white men.)

The one baddie who is a black woman is treated as a great warrior who has been manipulated into serving the wrong cause, and in the end may be offered an honorable death. And Sylens, who did all that manipulating, is given a pass and welcomed into the fold of Aloy's team.

Is this "racism against white people"? I don't know, and that's not my point, anyway. I regard it as a kind of literary trope - "the toxic white man" - which in this case just gets in the way of good character development and story telling. Alongside other issues with the writing, the prevalence of the trope in Forbidden West makes Aloy's character inconsistent, to the point of incoherence, and in the end makes the game far less satisfying as a story than was Zero Dawn.

[Sinophile]

Not bothering to read the 30 other posts, but keep in mind how Aloy was raised. She grew up as an outcast and her livelihood consists of killing things.

[Parry Hotter]

I look at it as her being a "no nonsense" character. She sees a few people as obstacles. The first game established well why she is the way she is. Both main male characters even chime in about her wanting to be alone and running off.

I really hope that there is an arch and that she starts to soften. I hope there is a character (love interest) down the road (a man preferably) that counters and reigns in some of her explosive tendencies.

She's obviously dealing with trauma from being an outcast and having no one to guide her with what she knows while people around her embrace different religions and cultures.

Sylens is really her only equal when it comes to what's going on and I like that he annoys her with his secrecy.

[Red]

Make Aloy a white male and no one would care. As usual, people ignore decades of white male characters doing exactly the same just to whine when a person with a vagina does it.

[bateluer]

TyresTyco a écrit :

Did you just neglect the fact that the sky clan chief guy is such a piece of ♥♥♥♥ that she had to bring the wall down to make him send the challengers? She is on a race to safe the world. Ofc she does some drastic things to speed stuff up.

I mean yeah.. we can criticize the writing there but it did totally sense what she did if we consider the context.

Everyone hated the arrogance of the chief.. Aloy had no chance but to destroy the wall. She also safed the clan by killing the Tremortusk. That thing would have killed them all.

I wouldnt focus on the "white man " are evil slob. Unless you just want to farm clowns like most people here. Neglecting the fact that one half of the main villians is a black women that went nuts. Thats the total opposite. Except they go the " lets be friends regardless what you did girl" route. Not that far into the story yet to know.

Also Erend isn't weak... same goes for the one armed Kotallo.

100% agree. It always surprises me how some players seem to skip all the story, narrative, cutscenes, and exposition . . . then react in confusion at the character's actions.

[HoboCop]

Viper a écrit :

Don't care what you think.

Too bad! You'll have to listen to what I say as long as I stay within the rules of engagement. Or 'till you block me, along with anyone else you "don't care" to listen to. Because, aparently, simply ignoring something/someone is too hard.
Case in point, you have options and should use them, instead of creating an echo-chamber dictatorship.

[HoboCop]

Sinophile a écrit :

keep in mind how Aloy was raised. She grew up as an outcast and her livelihood consists of killing things.

Keep in mind HZD, where despite all of that she was still impressionable and understanding. Even despite her age and all the **** she was given.

Rost raised her within the rules of his tribe. He supported her want to take part in the challenge. When it was time to part ways he wished for her to become part of the community.
When she was an outcast she still tried to help people, and some were kind to her despite the rules. It's not like everyone hated her, and she never acted like someone who wished to be left alone.

So no, the "outcast" arguments don't work if you wanna go back to what was shown in HZD.

[Hayley]

Ding Chavez a écrit :

The white lib dudes who write these types of games/characters really hate white dudes (despite being one themselves) and can't keep their own personality failures out of the art. Hence the characters being easy to hate.
This isn't just a Horizon problem, it's a problem in gaming and art in general. You can see these writer's politics through the characters, rather than seeing characters themselves.

white lib females*

[lordmaik]

she became a fat rude woman

[Freedom Gamer]

It is funny how most people self-project their ideas of what they think is self-projected by the writers into the characters rather than actually understanding the character.

It is both sad and funny.

[EricHVela]

I'm still at the start. (Took me 4 hours to get to the opening credits. Better than the 7 hours it took to get to the title screen in AC:Valhalla, though. This is going to be a long couple of playthroughs.)

So far, a lot of Aloy constantly blowing people off who just want a quick chat... A frequent couple of minutes won't end the world (and the game waits for the player most of the time as far as I can tell... probably some timed stuff later, but not where Aloy is in my game so far).

"I'm on an important mission and I don't have any time for you, old friend." -Aloy in a nutshell in the beginning.

Here's hoping she learns that running headfirst detached from everyone is more likely to hinder than help.

[BJWyler]

Solar Field a écrit :

I think Aloy is, in many ways, kind of like Mad Max.

She's alone and will be alone for what she needs to do. Sure, she has other people around her but she's very different and she understands things other don't.

The very noticeable thing for me in Forbidden west is how lonely she is. I don't think she's a jerk, but she has no time for people's BS and she has to move on no matter what.

I do like that about her. She's a warrior and she has no time for snowflakes.

I can understand though that this "anti hero" side of her can be confusing in such a mainstream game, but to me that's why she's so relatable. She's trying to save the world, no time for small talks.

I agree. She has the weight of the world on her shoulders, quite literally in a sense, and this is someone who was shunned her whole life by her own people. To me, this makes Aloy more human than most people posting in this forum.

[Suikostinger]

Suikostinger a écrit :

Ding Chavez a écrit :

Aloy is a bunch of white dudes in a writers room, not a strong empowered woman. Stop trying to turn this into a victim fest virtue signal.

My whole point is the only reason most people have a problem with "her" is because it's a female CHARACTER. Doesn't matter who wrote her. NOONE has these problems with male characters. I NEVER saw anyone, im sure there are a few though, that hate Geralt. I can only imagine if Aloy was having sex with the men in the game collecting their cards. Yall would be in a HISSY fit calling her a slut, I guarantee it. Grown-ass men are hating on the game because her cheeks are slightly bigger calling it woke.... get a job. BTW, I'm writing this at my job....

Also, BTW, I'm not 100% fine on woke games either. But calling this game woke because she's slightly fatter, or is off putting with her dialogue is just laughable.

[Shalltear]

Aloy Rizz

[Elivenya]

And because they hate white dudes we have awesome white guys...like Rost and Erend...
However i would be carefull to force people into bland cathegorys like white and POC and does not work in real life and in works even less in a game where phenotypes are so mixed ab and ethnicity works completely different

[Fanta Pants]

I can't believe what I am reading here...