Weapon Modding System

[Hard Gridlock]

Gotta admit, this is probably the stupidest weapon modding system I have ever encountered in an RPG.

I don't like that there is one very specific skill in order to use it, as opposed to just usng pre-existing knowledge (like knowledge pertaining to your weapons) to do it, or just incorporating crafting int the Mechanic skill test.. And the fact that you have a chance of destroying a mod by removing it is also ♥♥♥♥ as well.

But I think the thing that makes it the worst is that there isn't a shopkeeper you can pay to do it for you -- and there absolutely should be.

I like this game, but seriously, come on.

Ah well... I guess I should be grateful that the developers didn't add weapon degradation to the game.

[Hannibal Barca]

weaponsmithing is my best money maker I get 4 skill points per level I had tons left over after I got AR 10/10 , you must have put to many point in animal whipser or some usless sht

[Cutlass Jack]

You've never encountered a crafting system with a crafting skill before in an rpg? Not sure what to tell you there. Pretty standard stuff and this is pretty minor where crafting is concerned.

But while a shopkeeper wont perform it for you, you can buy mods from them and find them as loot. Angela has enough skill to install most of the early mods if you really dont want to do it yourself.

You are wrong about it being a slight edge though. Adding a grip to a melee weapon that makes it cost less AP to use is huge. And some of the higher level gun mods are quite good. The skill isn't a waste at all and worth the investment.

[|$m0k!n|-Mr. 4HyDe-]

No, the worst is that there is no choice in selection - ever. It's not just random, it's worse. With higher skill you can get more advanced mods, but unless you quicksave before stripping the chances to get a special mod are even lower than the percentages.. And some mods give you much more than a SLIGHT edge in combat.. Considering the number of people that complain about guns jamming I would say that the Sturdy Mag is a HUGE advantage.

[Coin]

Dummie.

[Sentient_Toaster]

It's not a minor edge, it's a *major* edge.

My best fighter has a hit percentage of 122% with an AK-47, and we've just arrived in California so I'm not exactly talking endgame mods... nor has she yet maxed out her assault rifle skill, even. A high-powered scope and a long barrel (both easily available in AZ) gain you +13m max range, +5m optimal range, +6% to hit. Get a laser sight (harder to get in AZ, but... I've barely explored around the starting location in CA, and I've got one), that adds +15% to hit. If I manage to get a flash suppressor and swap it the long barrel, I lose 6m of range but gain an additional +6% to hit for 138%, making it pretty feasible even to shoot enemies in full cover.

You can take something like the Lariat, which normally needs to be reloaded after every shot, and bring its capacity to five shots -- a huge gain in efficiency.

Range... even in AZ, you can easily tack on a long barrel and a high-powered scope for a neat bonus in range. Stick those on a M-24 (again available in AZ) and you can shoot something from 40+m to start a fight -- big edge compared to letting the enemy start the fight.

Yup, grip mods on melee weapons are big, especially with the 3 AP weapons since you get a +33% increase in damage/AP use. The weight mods are more interesting, since some will increase your crit chance while *reducing* your chance to hit making it less obvious.

Oh, and yes, it's good for giving ridiculous amounts of scrap. You can completely bankrupt Melson, for instance, with weaponsmithing. You can even make a profit without entering the World Map if you choose -- buy TNT outside the citadel, break it down, sell it to Melson; even with lousy rolls you'll easily profit 20 scrap per TNT, and you can make closer to 80 scrap easily. Those people leaving AZ with several thousand scrap, everybody with tactical vests, M-16s / bullpup / M-24, plenty of ammo, etc? That's probably from bankrupting Melson.

The barrel mods offer a bit of variety; you can take a large bonus in +hit%, or a small bonus to +crit%, if you don't want the range bonus of a long barrel and the smaller chance to +hit% (compared to the flash suppressor).

[Dr. Sheepbringer]

So basically every person is able to finetune a sniper rifle barrel... riiight..

[marcelvdpol]

The use of Weapon Smith skill depends a great deal on the weapons you use. Shotguns only allow adding a cone, Energy Weapons a scope, pistols allow magazines etc. These modifications make the weapons a LOT better; M-16 Assault Rifle with Long Barrel, Laser Underbarrel, High Quality Scope and Sturdy Magazine will allow the weapon to be useful throughout the game right up to the end with perhaps 100-150 damage per burst shot of 3. The AK-47 can be even better than this.

Other use is to break down weapons and grenades into Weapon Parts and sell them for 15 each at the Ranger Citadel. With this skill you can make so much money from all the guns you find that you can afford to walk around with all Power Armour near the end of the game.

Yes, it needs skill points but Weapon Smith is one of the better and most useful skills for your group to have right from the start. There is no need to have more than one of your group to have it though.

[Gregorovitch]

Weaponssmithing is one of the true "must have" skills in this game. Ranks almost as high as Field Medic and Surgeon. It gives you:

1. Huge income boost from weapon scrap
2. Huge To Hit % improvements
3. Significant crit % improvements
4. Reduced AP per hit on melee weapons
5. Huge reduction to jam rates

You may want to play without those advantages, but I wouldn't.

[Hard Gridlock]

I do have a character with Weaponsmithing, but they're an NPC that I have to travel back to base and recruit before utilizing their skill. And because they're either useless -- or simply outdone by other NPCs -- at everything else, I find it kind of a pain.

However, I did just give my designated sniper an SVD, and had it modded with a High Capacity Mag, A High Powered Scope, and a long barrel. I confess, the range on that thing, and the 0% Jam chance, are not much to shake a stick at.

Originally posted by DeathMarch:

weaponsmithing is my best money maker I get 4 skill points per level I had tons left over after I got AR 10/10 , you must have put to many point in animal whipser or some usless sht

"I don't agree with him! He must be bad at the game!"

I never really thought to give any of my characters that skill. Right now my party consists of:

Ariana Dubois -- My Silver Tongue. High Handguns, Leadership, Kiss Ass and Smart Ass. Christa Reynolds -- The Thief. Master of Unlocking, also pretty good at shutting off alarms. Okay with a handgun.
John Benson -- Designated sniper, points in perception, sniper rifles, and Outdoorsman, and "Meatfist" -- My Heavy Weapons Guy, skilled at using HMGs and Brute Force. That isn't much, but he only gets 2 skill points a level, because I wanted him to have 10 strength, 6 coordination and 6 speed. Sounds bad, but honestly he's my MVP in combat.

NPCs are Rose who has Computer Science, Field Medic and Surgeon maxxed out, and some points in Energy Weapons
Takayuki who has almost maxxed out demolitions skill, some Mechanical Repair, and decent with a blade (Actually does have a Sawsword with Griptape, and yes, I have noticed the difference 1 AP makes in a fight).
and Lexicanum, who is a pretty decent melee tank. His bionic arm does surprisingly good damage, so I gave him points in Brawling.

Like I said, that one Servant of the Mushroom Cloud guy installs weapon mods, but he has a skill of 5. I would never even consider bringing him with me, so he's stuck like that.

*sigh* Maybe I should give Rose some points in weaponsmithing as well. I gave her four points in Energy Weapons, and honestly the ballistic buff given by Ariana's Leadership radius are good enough for me to not need to improve her Energy Weapons skill by a significant amount.

But as far as I can tell, every skill I invested points into was a sound decision.

Originally posted by Dr. Sheepbringer:

So basically every person is able to finetune a sniper rifle barrel... riiight..

So basically radiation turns the local wildlife into giant, mutant versions of themselves, instead of corpses. Riiiiight.

See? The "realism" card cannot be played, here.

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

You've never encountered a crafting system with a crafting skill before in an rpg? Not sure what to tell you there. Pretty standard stuff and this is pretty minor where crafting is concerned.

Really? Where was it in Planescape? Where was it in Fallout 1 and 2? Where was it in Deus Ex? Where was it in WASTELAND? But, hell, honestly I am not even bagging on crafting systems. I didn't mind them in Knights of the Old Republic. It's the fact that this one is so... frustrating! You can't remove a mod without risking breaking it! How does that even work? What, you pulled to hard when getting the scope off of the rifle? How do you fail at peeling tape off of a knife? I have no shame about savescumming when it comes to modifying weapons -- I think it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, so I fight ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Fallout New Vegas had one, but it wasn't frustrating -- see, your GUNS skill applied to crafting GUNS. Because it reflected your knowledge about GUNS. Guns Skill didn't just increase your ballistic skill with gunpowder weapons -- it actually reflected your character's understanding of the weapon. This applied outside of crafting, because you could pass dialogue checks reflecting what your character knows about gunpowder weapons. Same goes for Explosives and Energy Weapons. There wasn't an ENTIRELY SEPARATE SKILL for crafting guns in Fallout: New Vegas -- everything done crafting wise usually involved a relevant skill. Explosives lets you craft explosives. Guns lets you craft guns and bullets. You get the idea.

Case in point, it's obnoxious.

[Crippled Crispy]

Well I do agree that a merchant, or other npc that you can pay to mod your weapons for you would be a good idea.
However, when it comes to doing it yourself, it makes perfect sense to require a skill to do so man. DUH.
Plus, when you try to remove certain mods, it also makes sense to have a chance to destroy them, base don your skills as a weponsmith, you may in fact f**k up the mod trying to detach it. Makes logical sense. It's realistic.
Besides, why is a chance of destroying your mods a big deal? Just quicksave (f9) before you do these things, and if you destroy the mod, just quickload (f11) and try again. Come on man.

[Hard Gridlock]

I just said that I do exactly that -- quicksaving and then quickloading until I get the preferred result. It's called savescumming.

I'm not saying you shouldn't need a skill to craft! I am just saying it shouldn't be a skill COMPLETELY REMOVED from every skill you have! Again, see my example about a good crafting system -- Fallout New Vegas.

[Sentient_Toaster]

*shrug* It was the same way in that most-lauded of squad level tactical games, too. Weapon skills were irrelevant compared to whether you could properly work with mods -- that was based on Mechanical skill, and it was entirely possible to have item damage from a failed attempt to attach a mod, *and* it wouldn't tell you the chances of success beforehand.

[Hard Gridlock]

Yes! And I don't mind that! Mechanical skill has a use OUTSIDE of weapons crafting, as well! There is more than one specific reason to use it.

[Alt0153]

the thing i would like from weaponcrafting is when you dismatle a weapon you get a chance at ALL the possible mods, not just break a rifle down and get nothing but a scope, maybe i could get a scope, mag and sight from it...

[Alt0153]

and yes i bankrupted the poor guy, had close to 5k assortd ammo rounds, all weapons modded up and 10k scrap as i headed to LA