Respec Points?

[Svâstîkus]

Is there any plans for respec'ing skill points, or will all point allocation be final?

[Horth]

I vote for a respec upon level, at least one point of one skill per respec would work to allow some experimentation/exploring.

[Tets]

dont heard of any plans to allow respecing points.. i would personally think its an interessting mechanic, as long as you can only make slight modifications/fix some errors. So not more than maybe 1 skilllevel every 10 levels or so..

[Svâstîkus]

Naturally, I think some type of penalty would be introduced should you feel the need to respec. Make it have a cost, and every respec after that would be more expensive. It would make you not want to use the feature but would be there just incase.

[Dustin81]

You can open your save file in a text editor and change values there.

[Wise Joe]

Or, simply leave it up to the player how many times they want to change their skill and attribute allocations if they decide they don't like the current allocations. If someone doesn't want to use it for whatever reason, then don't use it. But, not sure why we should be prevented from changing specs allocations if we want.

[Duke Nukem]

Make it an option, so that people who want to live dangerously can toggle the option to respec at the start of the game.

[t.tv/MadHaTTerMaddest]

Looks like you can take points out, but it might be something added later.

[Sammy]

Originally posted by Wise Joe:

Or, simply leave it up to the player how many times they want to change their skill and attribute allocations if they decide they don't like the current allocations. If someone doesn't want to use it for whatever reason, then don't use it. But, not sure why we should be prevented from changing specs allocations if we want.

That's a bad reasoning, respec'ing is used in MMO and ARPGs when "getting the best builds" is essential, but in a single-player RPG with an emphasis on setting and narrative it causes damage. Attributes and Skills aren't just numbers, they represent the physical make-up of your character, how strong, fast, aware, charismatic, intelligent etc they are. Skills represent their history, what they have learned. Just allowing players to instantly and magically "Unlearn" skills by paying money or something to get a gameplay advantage is really bad design for this type of game, and makes the system feel artificial.

As I said it's fine in MMO/ARPG where the story or what stats mean in the lore doesn't even matter and it's all about gameplay and "the build", but not for this type of game, it's not multiplayer you aren't competing against anyone PvP.

Either way, it's not like just going with whatever skills you decide is going to ruin the game for you, the main plot never blocks you if you don't have a certain skill, it's just things like locked door, secrets, loot, avoiding combat etc which skills do. The game is flexible enough that you will probably be able to finish it with any character builds, even if they aren't completely "perfect".

[Svâstîkus]

The respec points idea came of being because of my particular playstyle. Because I intend to remain strict with my point allocation and allot many points to one particular weapon class for each of my teamates; a pistol shooter, a rifleman, a sniper, and a melee specialist, which inturn will free up many other points for other necessary skills
The potential problem with doing this is when the late game comes am I going to be dealing enough damage with a certain character who focuses on pistol skills, or am I going to have every squad member running energy weapons mid to late game just to be effective?

[BlackjackGT]

Originally posted by Svâstîkus:

The respec points idea came of being because of my particular playstyle. Because I intend to remain strict with my point allocation and allot many points to one particular weapon class for each of my teamates; a pistol shooter, a rifleman, a sniper, and a melee specialist, which inturn will free up many other points for other necessary skills
The potential problem with doing this is when the late game comes am I going to be dealing enough damage with a certain character who focuses on pistol skills, or am I going to have every squad member running energy weapons mid to late game just to be effective?

As I understand it, they removed energy weapons because they weren't balanced to their liking, so I doubt they'd reintroduce them as a weapon you "have" to have to succeed at later levels -- it sounds like they want them to be effective but not a requirement per se.

Pending on how ammo availability's balanced in the release build, I wouldn't recommend a sniper character with no other firearms points allotted. At least on my one thorough playthrough, I didn't find 30.06 ammo in abundance until later in the game (obviously you can buy from vendors). Also, too often my sniper in my first runthrough found enemies with large AP allotments who got up right in his face in one turn, and rendered his sniper rifle nearly useless (poor aiming % at closer ranges). I like to put at least a couple points in another firearm type as backup. It's a free country though - allot points as you like :)

[Svâstîkus]

good comment friend. The way I figure it is each of my character will also carry specific duties
my Pistoleer will be my captain and carry leadership roles, outdoors, animals, barter, dialog...
the rifleman will be my utilityman - repair and picking abilities, the sniper would also handle heavy weaps/explosives/energy, and my melee spec would be my doctor/and forceful one.

energy weaps being removed seems quite untraditional, I hope they dont

[Wise Joe]

Originally posted by kromando33:

Originally posted by Wise Joe:

Or, simply leave it up to the player how many times they want to change their skill and attribute allocations if they decide they don't like the current allocations. If someone doesn't want to use it for whatever reason, then don't use it. But, not sure why we should be prevented from changing specs allocations if we want.

That's a bad reasoning, respec'ing is used in MMO and ARPGs when "getting the best builds" is essential, but in a single-player RPG with an emphasis on setting and narrative it causes damage. Attributes and Skills aren't just numbers, they represent the physical make-up of your character, how strong, fast, aware, charismatic, intelligent etc they are. Skills represent their history, what they have learned. Just allowing players to instantly and magically "Unlearn" skills by paying money or something to get a gameplay advantage is really bad design for this type of game, and makes the system feel artificial.

As I said it's fine in MMO/ARPG where the story or what stats mean in the lore doesn't even matter and it's all about gameplay and "the build", but not for this type of game, it's not multiplayer you aren't competing against anyone PvP.

Either way, it's not like just going with whatever skills you decide is going to ruin the game for you, the main plot never blocks you if you don't have a certain skill, it's just things like locked door, secrets, loot, avoiding combat etc which skills do. The game is flexible enough that you will probably be able to finish it with any character builds, even if they aren't completely "perfect".

First, let me say that I really don't care and don't plan on respec'ing.

I don't think that just because my reasoning is different than yours that it makes it bad. Your stated game play is how you like to play. And that is fine for you. All I am saying is leave it as an option for those that want to respec. Since you aren't playing against someone else, not pvp, or multiplayer, why wouild you care if another player is respec'ing his team after every fight? I mean, I don't know why one would want to do that, but why take the option away?

Eh, I don't really care one way or another. I just find it intriquing how players want to control the play options of other players. Completely open sandbox games must drive those kind of controlling players nuts.

[Jormundgand]

Respecing is a game breaking misfeature in my view. It destroys the R in RPG -- as in rocket propelled... no wait.. the other one.. Role playing game; transforming it into a PG == Playing game. You can read 'Role' any way you want; I don't think it matters. Whether the R is a tactical role, a game mechanics role or a characer role make no difference. The ability to change either of those at a whim means you have no role -- only the role you have currently been assigned to. Considering that save games are as easy as they are to edit, I don't see why any resources should be assigned to respecing.

Friends don't let friends be dipped.

[Nanako]

I just want to add to this argument. I agree with Clearer, mosly. Respecing at will destroys immersion and roleplaying. However i also think a game entirely without it is a bad thing, it leaves you regretting mistakes for too long. While learning from your mistakes is important, that's only possible if you have some means of recovering from them.

I believe the best approach to this situation is to give a very limited respec ability. Like respec potions, of which there are a finite number in the game, can't be found before you've played for a few hours at least, and the game should give you explicit warnings that they are valueable and should be used wisely. Ideally, there should also be some significant cost in aquiring them (lots of scrap, certain quest path, etc.)

Anyways, since save files can be edited, that's what i'm going to do. But i'm going to allow myself to do it three times in total, maximum and i'm going to charge my party 1000 scrap for each respec (by buying some expensive items and throwing them on the floor)

And then i'll just pretend i paid that scrap to some wise old mystic in ranger citadel, and be done with the matter.

[Spocks Toupee]

Originally posted by Nanako =^.^=:

I just want to add to this argument. I agree with Clearer, mosly. Respecing at will destroys immersion and roleplaying. However i also think a game entirely without it is a bad thing, it leaves you regretting mistakes for too long. While learning from your mistakes is important, that's only possible if you have some means of recovering from them.

I believe the best approach to this situation is to give a very limited respec ability. Like respec potions, of which there are a finite number in the game, can't be found before you've played for a few hours at least, and the game should give you explicit warnings that they are valueable and should be used wisely. Ideally, there should also be some significant cost in aquiring them (lots of scrap, certain quest path, etc.)

Anyways, since save files can be edited, that's what i'm going to do. But i'm going to allow myself to do it three times in total, maximum and i'm going to charge my party 1000 scrap for each respec (by buying some expensive items and throwing them on the floor)

And then i'll just pretend i paid that scrap to some wise old mystic in ranger citadel, and be done with the matter.

Ugh, I'm SO sick of hearing the "Breaks Immersion" excuse every single time someone doesn't like an option that someone suggests.

I bet you're playing with the Music On aren't you?
Just like people in Skyrim cry about being able to respec is "Immersion Breaking", but having the 40 piece Orchestra following you around in Dungeons somehow isn't "Immersion Breaking"

The people who fight against things like being able to Respec, and put limits on it, like making it cost more and more each time, are the people who don't want it in a game, because they have no self-control and would use and abuse it, so instead of actually using a modicum of self-control, they just campaign for NOBODY to have the option.

Hey, Don't like to Respec?
Then don't respec, and let everybody else HAVE THE OPTION.