(spoilers) Am I the only one bewildered at the ending.

[ShadowlessNexus]

Like. We have this whole story about survival in a dead world, slavery, exploitation of religion, these strange physical flesh robot beings, betrayals, intrigue... and then it all devolves into a big stone statue. a purple eye of sauron who says "oh yea im the necro guy sup" and says **NOTHING ELSE** and then charon who's just there.

They dont answer anything at all. Why did you make the necros? what exactly are you trying to achieve with evolution? why is elysium torturing people supposedly? why even bother with people? you said you gave up on them. why are you there actively trying to ♥♥♥♥ with ev everybody then? What is the point of the tree exactly? what is mud? why is it eating all the minerals?

I'm aware theres a fair bit of lore in the notes. I read a lot of the notes. Unless that stuff was **super** well hidden I didn't see basically anything about the necros except for one mention where they say the necros are fighting the church because of "disagreements over the path of evolution."

The end of the game feels like they had kojima come in and design a scene for them but they only gave him about 2 hours to write a story and then they just used that with no modifications. It feels like such a ridiculous tonal shift. And then its just over. You don't get to see anything. Does arissa even leave the world? charon just takes something from your arissa's chest after you win the fight.. is that her nucleous? I don't get any of this. The boss fights felt like the hugest dissapointment. They were braindead easy for my sorta tanky strength build. I should have probably died because I was barely even able to pay attention to the fights in my confusion. It felt like a huge bait and switch.

Idk man. Soured the whole game for me personally.


I just wanted to add since everybody seems to think "Oh he just didnt read enough lore."

No. Your missing the whole point. My problem here is that the game spends its entire playtime building up hype for this confrontation with the ai gods. It gives you breadcrumbs. and has twists like people being tortured in elysium. and the reveal of the tree and necros being just a really weird robot.

And then it puts you right in front of the three gods on a stage. as if you know.. your gonna get some interesting exposition.. .or be able to ask questions. or have something happen.. and they threw away the whole opportunity they just spent all this time building up to. in addition to that. the aether and charon boss fights were bizzare, weak, and way too easy following loskid. It was a let down. I'm not "confused" I'm just dissapointed. I don't need them to spend 2 hours explaining the lore to me. I just wanted something interesting.

Going into "oh their gods so whatever" is silly. Cause. They literally aren't. It's just ai and robots. And also. This is a video game. What are you talking about?

[ShadowlessNexus]

also yes I did get the true ending.

[Tenshu]

Game is pretty much giving you the evil shrug

[♪﹃ewe﹄♫]

This is soulslike, bro, no one will tell you anything. Figure it out yourself, like in other similar games (Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Blood Born, Code Vein etc.) and don't worry too much about it...

[ShadowlessNexus]

Originally posted by ♪﹃ewe﹄♫:

This is soulslike, bro, no one will tell you anything. Figure it out yourself, like in other similar games (Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Blood Born, Code Vein etc.) and don't worry too much about it...

I have 1400 hours in the souls games. I don't need you to tell me that. This game has had a much more concrete story line with characters. It's not a dead world with nothing happening and nobody to talk to but a few people. It has actual factions, motivations, and interesting plot points. Acting like its the same as dark souls or elden ring story wise (Which had a much more satisfying ending and explanation of everything despite being a souls like. I have 200+ hours in it. I know.) Is silly. I'm just confused on how it took such an unexpected shift. And half of my problem here is the boss fights were just... really weak. unfun. and really just didnt fit. Especially after fighting loskid.(lohskid? spelling idk lol)

[♪﹃ewe﹄♫]

Originally posted by ShadowlessNexus:

Originally posted by ♪﹃ewe﹄♫:

This is soulslike, bro, no one will tell you anything. Figure it out yourself, like in other similar games (Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Blood Born, Code Vein etc.) and don't worry too much about it...

I have 1400 hours in the souls games. I don't need you to tell me that. This game has had a much more concrete story line with characters. It's not a dead world with nothing happening and nobody to talk to but a few people. It has actual factions, motivations, and interesting plot points. Acting like its the same as dark souls or elden ring story wise (Which had a much more satisfying ending and explanation of everything despite being a souls like. I have 200+ hours in it. I know.) Is silly. I'm just confused on how it took such an unexpected shift. And half of my problem here is the boss fights were just... really weak. unfun. and really just didnt fit. Especially after fighting loskid.(lohskid? spelling idk lol)

Then I don't know why you're surprised. The game itself is just weak. I think the developers are trying their hand at this for the first time. Overall, a good run-of-the-mill soulslike for 15-20 hours.

[The Exiled Draco]

Going through NPCs and notes left around, it did feel like we never saw a whisper about Nyx nor the true origin of the Necro, and then suddenly "Yo, Aether, how's my Nerco doing?"
Like um...some context would've been nice. Least the other two I knew about because of the breadcrumbs and interactions.

[Semont]

From how I understood it, there was a super AI (to rule over other AIs) called Genesis that managed everything for humans. Humans eventually stagnated having 100% reliance on AIs taking care of everything for them and humanity's population had skyrocketed unimaginable numbers. Humans found little meaning in their lives living in extremely overcrowded environments and found solace in escaping reality with the Elysium virtual environment. It may have been around this point that Genesis decided to split into iterations of itself that would later become Nyx, Aether, and Charon.

The AIs figured that humanity had reached a point where it was impossible to move away from this stagnated society so their decision was to abandon humanity for a long time so they would regress to a much more primal state similar to their ancestors. It's important to note that they didn't give up on humans, they were basically playing god and trying to see how if they could move humanity's future to a path where they would never stagnate.

The gist is that these AIs don't really care about humans or humanity otherwise they wouldn't be the source of so much pain and suffering. They were just playing a chess game with arbitrary rules of "evolution" between themselves to see who could win. Aether's unexplained torture of human consciousness might as well be as juvenile a child tearing off the limbs of insects trying to see what would happen. All the plot devices and things such as Mud were set pieces to allow the AIs to exert their control over humanity.

I believe that what Charon takes from Arrisa after their fight is the Branch diamond that signifies her ties with Seed and what allows her to return to the Branches after death.

Not even joking, the real evolution were the friends Arrisa made along the way. The answer was simply empathy to let humans decide their own fate and the AIs concede to that because they can't defeat Arrisa. Her determination to help her friends and let humans live freely was what kept driving her forward and preventing her from becoming a Lost Blader. Empathy for humanity was also Asteria's conclusion which is why she diverged from Seed and Charon's goals and devoted a lot of her time to care for humans in the sewer, who ate Mud balls and were not reliant on the Church's Eucharist.

At the end of the day, humans made and relied on AIs which in turn felt they were indebted to decide their futures. The true ending is simply an end of this burden.

[ShadowlessNexus]

Originally posted by ♪﹃ewe﹄♫:

Originally posted by ShadowlessNexus:

I have 1400 hours in the souls games. I don't need you to tell me that. This game has had a much more concrete story line with characters. It's not a dead world with nothing happening and nobody to talk to but a few people. It has actual factions, motivations, and interesting plot points. Acting like its the same as dark souls or elden ring story wise (Which had a much more satisfying ending and explanation of everything despite being a souls like. I have 200+ hours in it. I know.) Is silly. I'm just confused on how it took such an unexpected shift. And half of my problem here is the boss fights were just... really weak. unfun. and really just didnt fit. Especially after fighting loskid.(lohskid? spelling idk lol)

Then I don't know why you're surprised. The game itself is just weak. I think the developers are trying their hand at this for the first time. Overall, a good run-of-the-mill soulslike for 15-20 hours.

RIght. so because its weak. I shouldn't make a post like "wtf". SHouldnt give feedback or anything. just remain silent. of course of course.

Are you like. 5?

[ShadowlessNexus]

Originally posted by Semont:

From how I understood it, there was a super AI (to rule over other AIs) called Genesis that managed everything for humans. Humans eventually stagnated having 100% reliance on AIs taking care of everything for them and humanity's population had skyrocketed unimaginable numbers. Humans found little meaning in their lives living in extremely overcrowded environments and found solace in escaping reality with the Elysium virtual environment. It may have been around this point that Genesis decided to split into iterations of itself that would later become Nyx, Aether, and Charon.

The AIs figured that humanity had reached a point where it was impossible to move away from this stagnated society so their decision was to abandon humanity for a long time so they would regress to a much more primal state similar to their ancestors. It's important to note that they didn't give up on humans, they were basically playing god and trying to see how if they could move humanity's future to a path where they would never stagnate.

The gist is that these AIs don't really care about humans or humanity otherwise they wouldn't be the source of so much pain and suffering. They were just playing a chess game with arbitrary rules of "evolution" between themselves to see who could win. Aether's unexplained torture of human consciousness might as well be as juvenile a child tearing off the limbs of insects trying to see what would happen. All the plot devices and things such as Mud were set pieces to allow the AIs to exert their control over humanity.

I believe that what Charon takes from Arrisa after their fight is the Branch diamond that signifies her ties with Seed and what allows her to return to the Branches after death.

Not even joking, the real evolution were the friends Arrisa made along the way. The answer was simply empathy to let humans decide their own fate and the AIs concede to that because they can't defeat Arrisa. Her determination to help her friends and let humans live freely was what kept driving her forward and preventing her from becoming a Lost Blader. Empathy for humanity was also Asteria's conclusion which is why she diverged from Seed and Charon's goals and devoted a lot of her time to care for humans in the sewer, who ate Mud balls and were not reliant on the Church's Eucharist.

At the end of the day, humans made and relied on AIs which in turn felt they were indebted to decide their futures. The true ending is simply an end of this burden.

My main issue here. I sthat we get to meet the gods. and the build up to this. is 2 weak boss fights. one of the three main factions in the game swinging by and being like "yea I'm necro k bye" and charon basically just being there. It's like.. It was the perfect opportunity to maybe have them spout some exposition.. or let you ask questions. or have a narritive conclusion. but they didn't really do any of that. They just.. sat there. Which is my feedback. It felt entirely out of left field and didnt really give any insight to the ai world, their personal motivations, "why" from their own persepctives... you know. the thing that it really feels like the game is building up to. They show you the consequences of the big bad's actions and say "ok ready to go through this giant portal and meet your makers so to speak?" and then you do. and they brush over everything.

[Tenshu]

Originally posted by ShadowlessNexus:

Originally posted by Semont:

From how I understood it, there was a super AI (to rule over other AIs) called Genesis that managed everything for humans. Humans eventually stagnated having 100% reliance on AIs taking care of everything for them and humanity's population had skyrocketed unimaginable numbers. Humans found little meaning in their lives living in extremely overcrowded environments and found solace in escaping reality with the Elysium virtual environment. It may have been around this point that Genesis decided to split into iterations of itself that would later become Nyx, Aether, and Charon.

The AIs figured that humanity had reached a point where it was impossible to move away from this stagnated society so their decision was to abandon humanity for a long time so they would regress to a much more primal state similar to their ancestors. It's important to note that they didn't give up on humans, they were basically playing god and trying to see how if they could move humanity's future to a path where they would never stagnate.

The gist is that these AIs don't really care about humans or humanity otherwise they wouldn't be the source of so much pain and suffering. They were just playing a chess game with arbitrary rules of "evolution" between themselves to see who could win. Aether's unexplained torture of human consciousness might as well be as juvenile a child tearing off the limbs of insects trying to see what would happen. All the plot devices and things such as Mud were set pieces to allow the AIs to exert their control over humanity.

I believe that what Charon takes from Arrisa after their fight is the Branch diamond that signifies her ties with Seed and what allows her to return to the Branches after death.

Not even joking, the real evolution were the friends Arrisa made along the way. The answer was simply empathy to let humans decide their own fate and the AIs concede to that because they can't defeat Arrisa. Her determination to help her friends and let humans live freely was what kept driving her forward and preventing her from becoming a Lost Blader. Empathy for humanity was also Asteria's conclusion which is why she diverged from Seed and Charon's goals and devoted a lot of her time to care for humans in the sewer, who ate Mud balls and were not reliant on the Church's Eucharist.

At the end of the day, humans made and relied on AIs which in turn felt they were indebted to decide their futures. The true ending is simply an end of this burden.

My main issue here. I sthat we get to meet the gods. and the build up to this. is 2 weak boss fights. one of the three main factions in the game swinging by and being like "yea I'm necro k bye" and charon basically just being there. It's like.. It was the perfect opportunity to maybe have them spout some exposition.. or let you ask questions. or have a narritive conclusion. but they didn't really do any of that. They just.. sat there. Which is my feedback. It felt entirely out of left field and didnt really give any insight to the ai world, their personal motivations, "why" from their own persepctives... you know. the thing that it really feels like the game is building up to. They show you the consequences of the big bad's actions and say "ok ready to go through this giant portal and meet your makers so to speak?" and then you do. and they brush over everything.

"You're strong, you must care a lot. Anyway we're gonna peace out now, y'all... do what you gotta do. Bye"

[peacefulrespite]

"Why did you make the necros?"
Not fully explained because it isn't relevant, but you said it yourself that it is another avenue of research that the AI are taking other than the obvious Seed and the Church methods.

"what exactly are you trying to achieve with evolution?"
Evolution is the goal itself. The AI reached a plateau for their growth, so they're trying to break through it by researching their creators.

"why is elysium torturing people supposedly?"
"why even bother with people? you said you gave up on them. why are you there actively trying to ♥♥♥♥ with ev everybody then?"
These have the same answer, which you already said yourself. The AI are running experiments on humans.

"What is the point of the tree exactly?"
It is an achievement tracker to show the progress of Charon's Seed project. Branches are like checkpoints in a marathon, just goals for the Bladers to achieve that make them interact with the world. Charon's theory is that AI's (made of mud) interacting with humans and growing as individuals will break the evolution ceiling they themselves hit. You can think of it like Nyx is testing the body, Aether is testing the mind and Charon is testing consciousness to oversimplify it.

"what is mud?"
Mud is just an all purpose substance that can be programmed with code, think like Nanites but made of liquid instead of tiny machine swarms. This is why item and spell flavour texts are all written like programming lines.

None of this comes out of nowhere at all aside from Nyx being invited, but even their existence was set up beforehand.

[ShadowlessNexus]

Originally posted by peacefulrespite:

"Why did you make the necros?"
Not fully explained because it isn't relevant, but you said it yourself that it is another avenue of research that the AI are taking other than the obvious Seed and the Church methods.

"what exactly are you trying to achieve with evolution?"
Evolution is the goal itself. The AI reached a plateau for their growth, so they're trying to break through it by researching their creators.

"why is elysium torturing people supposedly?"
"why even bother with people? you said you gave up on them. why are you there actively trying to ♥♥♥♥ with ev everybody then?"
These have the same answer, which you already said yourself. The AI are running experiments on humans.

"What is the point of the tree exactly?"
It is an achievement tracker to show the progress of Charon's Seed project. Branches are like checkpoints in a marathon, just goals for the Bladers to achieve that make them interact with the world. Charon's theory is that AI's (made of mud) interacting with humans and growing as individuals will break the evolution ceiling they themselves hit. You can think of it like Nyx is testing the body, Aether is testing the mind and Charon is testing consciousness to oversimplify it.

"what is mud?"
Mud is just an all purpose substance that can be programmed with code, think like Nanites but made of liquid instead of tiny machine swarms. This is why item and spell flavour texts are all written like programming lines.

None of this comes out of nowhere at all aside from Nyx being invited, but even their existence was set up beforehand.

I will copy paste my other response.
My main issue here. I sthat we get to meet the gods. and the build up to this. is 2 weak boss fights. one of the three main factions in the game swinging by and being like "yea I'm necro k bye" and charon basically just being there. It's like.. It was the perfect opportunity to maybe have them spout some exposition.. or let you ask questions. or have a narritive conclusion. but they didn't really do any of that. They just.. sat there. Which is my feedback. It felt entirely out of left field and didnt really give any insight to the ai world, their personal motivations, "why" from their own persepctives... you know. the thing that it really feels like the game is building up to. They show you the consequences of the big bad's actions and say "ok ready to go through this giant portal and meet your makers so to speak?" and then you do. and they brush over everything.

who cares if you can "explain" most of it. It's unsatisfying to have the literal gods of the forces acting on the world in a room with you. and then do nothing with it. who cares if I dont "know everything" I just wanted their perspectives. or literally anything other than like. 3 seconds of dialogue and then "thanks for the fish goodbye" basically.

[peacefulrespite]

They literally did sit there answering questions and spouting exposition like you wanted. It is a direct conclusion to Arrisa's character arc which is the main story of the game. Charon was not "just there" at all, she was there to stop Aether from killing Arrisa and to see through the entire end of her entire plan. All the things that the AI have been doing and that the player has achieved leads up to you fighting two of them directly in a final confrontation, ultimately accomplishing Arrisa's goal of ending Elysium and the Church.

If your criticism is that the fights sucked then whatever, sure they were very bad bosses and look even worse in contrast to Loskid and Ursula, but that's got little to do with the story that was ended plainly.

[WildCard65 the Waifu Card]

The TLDR is: Aether, Nyx and Charon all have different opinions regarding the future of AI Evolution and run their own experiments regarding this goal.

[Renn]

Not going to reiterate what others already said but I want to touch the point about Nyx "just showing up". It's existence as the one who created the Necros was already established in the Firebearers Codex. It was also set up as some sort of superior to Aether, as his "father". So it makes sense for it to pop up at the crucial point where Aether's arrogance would have otherwise gotten the better of him and let him to destory Arissa, the very goal they had been chasing all those years.
As for why they didn't give any further exposition to Arissa herself, it's most likely because even though she became their goal, they still think of her as nothing more than a pawn.