Apocalypse armor?!

[DevilMedic]

So here's a suggestion... When using the workshop to mod armor and weapons how about you let us know the stats beforehand so we can decide if we want to do it? I just modded the advanced tac vest into apocalypse armor and it completely ruined it for me. The two best things about the adv tac vest was NO AP PENALTY and a relatively LOW WEIGHT. Now my frigging AP is nerfed and I'm wearing something heavier than the freaking regular tac vest. This is now a completely and utterly useless piece of gear imo, as the adv tac vest on its own soaked up damn near all the damage thrown at it, so the "gains" are pretty much pointless for me.

[Augmenti]

Ouch.

[drake_hound]

Sorry for being harsh, why you think I almost rage about modding the game.
I can´t believe such a failure past the balance check and causes players frustration.

And my post has also been moved to spoiler section check the date.
If it was tactical armour fine, accepted it had high weight high def and lower ballistic protection.
Both had a cool looks (cool green looks that matches the army helmet :P )

But to take away your only 1-2 pieces of best in game armour. after 50 hours of waiting (if sera doesn´t get sick making it. more often then not she will have days sick in making it)
60 parts, you get that >.< awesome looking. but poorly designed armour balance.
That feels like I have wasted my time in researching it and making it.
And sacrificed my BEST armour and worst LONG waiting time. for nothing.

That is what screws people over. losing the best getting a upgraded tactical armour.
And offcourse back then nobody replied and they quickly cover it up.
But as more people reaches this end phase. who in the right mind would want to have it?
Compared to tactical armour advanced.

[DevilMedic]

I went through the coyote compound with freaking leather jackets and moto helmets like it was butter. The armor only really matters if you stumble blindly into a firefight, and who the hell does that? I've never been surprised by the enemy, so it is pointless to trade my AP and carry weight for some extra ballistic coverage.

As for the built in gasmask, all I wear for headgear is gasmask anyway. The armor buffs my dudes get from their gear is PLENTY without me having to add a riot helmet on top of it tbh.

With the extra AP I can get an extra shot off, killing the enemy before they get a shot on me. I would much rather eliminate a threat than be able to absorb some of the damage. If I kill him, he doesn't do ANY damage or have the chance to score a crit on me and do some major hurt.

Publicado originalmente por goatyhead:

your armor will still absorb critical shots. use the AP armor if you know you are going against a heavy apponent, use the lighter armor for areas with a lot of loot and mostly zeds and wimpy looters.
the good thing about the armor is you are a freaking tank. Full shot gun blasts, no damage. put it on on Max, with a tower shield , riot helmot, gloves, work boots and a mace and let him go to town. He draws the fire and you pick people off in a distance.

the advanced foes all throw gas, you will be thanking yourself later for not going blind or passing out

I love mine. I went through the coyote compound like it was butter.

[ZombieBisque]

Thanks for all your feedback, guys, this is helpful for getting end-game stuff properly balanced.

[goatyhead]

here is the comparison
AP VS AVTV
Bite 50 vs 20 (+30 in favor of AP)
Bal 30 vs 40 (+10 in favor of vest)
Fire 40 vs 10 (+30 in favor of AP)
Blunt 40 vs 20 (+20 in favor of AP)
Pierce 40 vs 10 (+30 in favor of AP)
Chemical 40 vs 0 (+40 in favor of AP)

using the Apocolypse armor is far better in every situation except balistic..and its only -10 AC in favor of the tatical vest. the AP should be reversed for balistic, this might be a development error. Against balistic, AP should have a 50 because it is an upgrade from the tatical vest.

(this is just wearing the armor only)

[drake_hound]

Publicado originalmente por goatyhead:

here is the comparison
AP VS AVTV
Bite 50 vs 20 (+30 in favor of AP)
Bal 30 vs 40 (+10 in favor of vest)
Fire 40 vs 10 (+30 in favor of AP)
Blunt 40 vs 20 (+20 in favor of AP)
Pierce 40 vs 10 (+30 in favor of AP)
Chemical 40 vs 0 (+40 in favor of AP)

using the Apocolypse armor is far better in every situation except balistic..and its only -10 AC in favor of the tatical vest. the AP should be reversed for balistic, this might be a development error. Against balistic, AP should have a 50 because it is an upgrade from the tatical vest.

(this is just wearing the armor only)

BITE really who is getting bitten in advanced tactical armour?
Fire lol fireman helmet gives more the 10.
+Balistic is the key answer to everything can reach +80 nullifying all none critical gun hits
(and oh those austin mobs have no problems hitting you at all)
Infact without barricade or riot shield, everybody were severly injured in the lobby of the hotel
By what weapons ? oh that is correct Ballistic weapons.

Blunt seriously what blunt weapon hurts you in the endgame? and how much damage does none critical hit do? 60.. you need 40 blunt when all melee weapons has been nerfed ?
Pierce same story ? what piercing weapon does more then 50 damage ?

Chemical.. yeah ok only chemical ingame is acidflask and it is annoying cause of the bugged armour debuff.

Seriously are people playing different game then me?
Where melee weapons none critical are so painfull.. even with STR 10 :P

[DevilMedic]

My point is that while those buffs ARE present, they are negligible. Using the ATV alone I was never in danger of losing more than 5hp at the most from my experience against zeds, melee looters, gun looters and military type. Adding EVEN MORE and taking away the main perks of the ATV make the Apoc set completely useless imo.

I get that people dig the apoc armor, thats cool. But the devs might want to consider one of several options.

Make the regular tac vest (or create a "plate carrier" variant) lighter with no AP loss and NOT upgradeable, and make the ATV heavier WITH ap loss and upgradeable to apoc armor. That way you can still have a light maneuverable armor AND your tank armor. You shouldn't have to sack your light armor blindly to get some ♥♥♥♥ that is useless to your play style.

OR

Make the ATV an upgrade from the regular tac vest. Once you purchase in to that upgrade you get the "current" build ATV. From that point you can choose a light/heavy route. Light leads to a plate carrier, five pounds lighter with stats between regular and tac vest. Heavy route leads to apoc armor.

Currently the armor options are ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Not all of us WANT to swing a bat once, take one step, and have to end our turn. We would rather be able to use the AP we dumped our stat points into.

Publicado originalmente por goatyhead:

here is the comparison
AP VS AVTV
Bite 50 vs 20 (+30 in favor of AP)
Bal 30 vs 40 (+10 in favor of vest)
Fire 40 vs 10 (+30 in favor of AP)
Blunt 40 vs 20 (+20 in favor of AP)
Pierce 40 vs 10 (+30 in favor of AP)
Chemical 40 vs 0 (+40 in favor of AP)

using the Apocolypse armor is far better in every situation except balistic..and its only -10 AC in favor of the tatical vest. the AP should be reversed for balistic, this might be a development error. Against balistic, AP should have a 50 because it is an upgrade from the tatical vest.

(this is just wearing the armor only)

[goatyhead]

my point is that the armor isnt totally useless like you were saying. The game I am playing in, the advanced NPCs all have thrown gas, and incen gernades (fire). I even had one suicide bomber blow himself up right before he died.. i took no fire damage and only min total damage and the guy blew himself up next to me.

they need to adjust the balistic Def, because it doesnt make any sense it would go down.

[DevilMedic]

It is pretty useless, for ME. Which is what I have been emphasizing in every post. The main point of this post is stating that they should tell you BEFORE you mod and destroy it what the outcome will be, at the very least in a general matter. Just add the text "this makes it heavier and harder to move in" that way players who don't want to sit in combat for 45 minutes just to take three steps have an option to not destroy the best armor in the game for no reason.

[drake_hound]

Publicado originalmente por goatyhead:

my point is that the armor isnt totally useless like you were saying. The game I am playing in, the advanced NPCs all have thrown gas, and incen gernades (fire). I even had one suicide bomber blow himself up right before he died.. i took no fire damage and only min total damage and the guy blew himself up next to me.

they need to adjust the balistic Def, because it doesnt make any sense it would go down.

Look am not saying it is useless it is the tradeoff that doesn´t warrant it.
12 def armour higher ballistic def no AP penalty and 15 LB weight.
That means you can carry 20 LB of equipment (gasmask only weigh 1LB means you can carry a Assault Rifle fully loaded and still have 10 LB more equipment) without AP penalty.

So for the ultimate armour, 50 hour waiting time and 60 parts it just doesn´t ad up.

There are issues, called balance, I agree. But it is things like these.
That make nobody make reinforced leather armour. 5 def some pathetic resistance and 15 LB weight. Rather would have them make Reinforced Motor Armour plans. (I mena how hard is it to combine a ballistic vest with the motor armour?) it takes away 2 of the items make it beter.

Now basically crafting weapons are fine. cause why, there is no real penalty. a Silenced 9mm is 0.5 weight more. for noise reduction (terrific idea) weight vs increase functionality. is in balance.
If the silence 9 mm would weigh 5 LB more, nobody would make it. the trade off isn´t worthwhile.

Crafting Armour is like.. ok what for reinforced riding armour.. ok by the time I am crafting that.
I would be futher down the road already that makes the armour useless.
Now for the AI the weight restriction isn´t a big deal, cause they can be flooded with too much weight. cause they are just actors or placeholder for loot.
So for them the reinforced leather armour and reinforced riding armour makes sense.
Heavy weight doesn´t matter.

Now to find out the whole armour crafting has been useless. and the top item like meh.
At the cost of the best armour currently ingame is a big let down.

Example you trade your swat armour in for a "standard" tactical vest ? does it feel beter?
No it feels worst. you lose 1AP movement. to gain fluff.
Ontop of that you are penalised with waiting time for crafting and cost of parts.
and somebody making it for 50 hours.

See the point I am getting across Goaty, look we all love this game.
Or else we wouldn´t be so annoyed. and yes it is easily fixed by moding the game files.
But most of the consumers play the game as it is. and DEV should atleast give us some candy. before forcing us to mod stuff.

[drake_hound]

No in that example imagine I had 35 weight only. you could wear a apocalypse armour.
Look fabulous cool (that I do not deny at all)

Or you could use a barricade shield (20weight 12 def tons of resistance) 15 weight of armour combination. including a gasmask for 1 weight, so you can wear a swat armour for 10 weight.
4 weight in gloves and shoes. woot suddenly the 35 weight of apocalypse armour doesn´t look good. sure you look like a beggar ;) but heck a indestructable beggar.

Sure but we can stack up additional stuff with Apocalypse armour. fair enough.
Pushing it to godlike that am not denying.
But what am trying to say is weight matters for players and there companions.
Cause we have to loot items and food. so weight is one of the most important aspect in this game.

[Yautja_cetanu]

How do you go about modding the game files to make the apocalyse armour better? The decreased ballistics seems really silly

[speaker2]

Publicado originalmente por Yautja_cetanu:

How do you go about modding the game files to make the apocalyse armour better? The decreased ballistics seems really silly

You are joking,right????

looking at old beta discussion from 1 year ago? The apocalypse armor is the best piece of armor in the game since launch.