Dead State

Dead State

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Kordanor Aug 12, 2015 @ 11:39am
Combat initiation
Does this game have one of the most stupid combat initiations or do I miss something?

Currently the most dangerous zombies are the ones which are facing a wall.
Why? because attacking zombies which are not looking at you is dangerous.

Zombie faces a wall:
-You need to press space manually if you are about 4 tiles away. This means that you need to invest 3 AP or more to run to the zombie to hit him in melee. So normally you can only attack once
-If you get too close, the zombie will likely have the first turn, run to you and hit you
-if you didn't activate to move each party member on his own, and have party movement instead, your party is so spread out, that likely 2 or 3 (out of 4) won't even be in a range to attack with melee
-if you shoot him on range you attrackt more zombies. At least until you find silent weapons
-if you don't actually engage into combat with your character you entered turn based mode with, the game just switches back to real time mode

So all in all, there is no good way to take out zombies without risk if they are facing a wall if I don't miss anything.
In contrast to:

Zombie faces open field:
Tactic-> Just far away from zombie, approac zombie from his view, Zombie starts turn, runs towards you, the next turn you use to position perfectly 6-7 tiles away like:
XZX
....
XXX
HDH
XHX
X= empty
H= Human
Z= Zombie
D= Zombie destination
Zombie now runs into your group, all group members can use all their AP to attack. Zombie has no chance of surviving, does no damage.

So...am I missing something or is approaching a zombies from behind indeed far more dangerous than encountering it up front?
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Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
LoveTruffle Aug 12, 2015 @ 8:35pm 
That's about right, Reanimated changed combat in some questionable ways.
Drunk Zombie Aug 14, 2015 @ 9:34pm 
Either agro zombies from the front, or shot them from the back witrh a bow/crossbow.
Kordanor Aug 14, 2015 @ 11:27pm 
I just found a bow and crossbow...but that took 23h of gameplay till then...
Asuzu Aug 16, 2015 @ 11:53am 
The game is just badly polished and rush released.
And sadly, as much as I like it, I would "serves you right for doing it".

Zombies agro when you approach from the back is just lame, Reanimated or not, it is plain not tested and looks and feels lame.
Absense of any sort of Stealth in the game where you are not supposed to make sounds is lame.
Bows and Crossbows have bad damage and are practically lame and useless for "non-loud" approach.
Also when you make a sound whole pack of zombies just walk to the sound origin ignoring everything on the way, sometimes stacking on top of eachother.
Basically, AI movement/behaviour coding is still terrible.

Shelter management is just terribad with a multitude of glitches/issues
Bad UI to manage Shelter/loot/party gear - just plain horrible to have to run and use Shelter inventory every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time.
Having to run to every Shelter person to check what mood items they want is horrible.
A simple intercom in the office would resolve the issue of "where the ♥♥♥♥ is this guy I wanted to talk to".

Managing loot in game focus on loot is done terrible, you cannot even "Select all" while trading between party members.
Playing loot tetris is insanely dull, why there are no automated ways to handle loot distribution/filtering.

But fear not, dev is streaming his playthroughs with 70 viewers instead of working on a patch.
Right.
Last edited by Asuzu; Aug 16, 2015 @ 11:56am
ZombieBisque Aug 17, 2015 @ 8:25am 
Originally posted by Asuzu:
But fear not, dev is streaming his playthroughs with 70 viewers instead of working on a patch.
Right.

Any patches we might see at this point would be smaller bug fixes. The game is feature complete.
Asuzu Aug 17, 2015 @ 1:58pm 
Originally posted by Caidoz:
Originally posted by Asuzu:
But fear not, dev is streaming his playthroughs with 70 viewers instead of working on a patch.
Right.

Any patches we might see at this point would be smaller bug fixes. The game is feature complete.

Well, I hope DoubleBear learned it's game development lessons.
Man, it does take a talent to bury such a good idea of a game under a pile of bugs, unfinished endings and so on.
Concrete Galoshes Aug 17, 2015 @ 4:11pm 
Glad I read this thread, not gonna buy it now. Backwards, agro'd zombies? No thanks.
I found that if I attack the zombie from behind my character runs up to the square directly behind the zombie then smashes them over the head with whatever weapon they're carrying "then" combat starts ...
Kordanor Aug 18, 2015 @ 9:20am 
You got an up to date version? I think on the mainscreen that was 2.0.2
ReLL((eSDEE)) Aug 18, 2015 @ 2:33pm 
bring back the old combat
Shinde Kudasai Aug 18, 2015 @ 3:02pm 
Sneaking up behind the zombie made single zombies no threat at all. But I agree that changes in a reanimated are questionable. Its nice that zombies are more challenging, but the combat system in a game doesnt really allow for outsmarting them. Playing on an iron man in x-com was enjoyable. Here its just frustrating.
Kordanor Aug 18, 2015 @ 3:04pm 
Single zombies aren't a threat here either...just the ones facing walls...
arconoff Aug 19, 2015 @ 10:08am 
Re animated ruined this game. Put back original style zombies, they made for a good game, pathetic lack of care with the developers answers. Shameful responses.
Dekent Aug 19, 2015 @ 6:49pm 
I wonder if it's possible to mod back, the game was much more fun when you reached milestones like getting max with a sledgehammer who could kill 2/3s the zombies for you with a bit of stealth or you got the named crossbow which made scattered zombies easy to deal with. I do prefer the stronger humans but the smarter zombies is kind of lame.
SunwardMold  [developer] Aug 19, 2015 @ 6:56pm 
Hi folks! Sorry I wasn't able to respond to this sooner, things have been pretty crazy at the DoubleBear compound lately.

After listening to our community feedback from the Early Access and post-release builds, it was pretty obvious that while combat was working mostly how we wanted it to that there were still some major sticking points for many players. We worked on a ton of variations and tested out many different versions of the combat rebalancing, and what we wound up with in Reanimated takes the best parts of each to address the concerns we were hearing from our players and bring the combat more in line with what we wanted the spirit of Dead State to be - A game about a small community's desperate struggle for survival during impossible circumstances.

The combat balance changes in the Reanimated update fix several exploits which made it a breeze to clear many maps, particularly the zombie controlled ones (I'll admit that the Reanimated combat changes took me a little while for me to get used to, but personally I find the combat to be vastly more fun now than it was before). In the older builds it used to be possible for a single character with a claw hammer to run directly behind a zombie, start combat, and kill it in a single round, almost never making enough noise to attract attention from nearby enemies. Even worse, a lone character running at full speed across a map could pass directly in front of human and zombie enemies and so long as they didn't stop they wouldn't ever be detected. I definitely understand that there's a certain sort of satisfaction to be gained from sprinting about a map bashing zombie skulls while laughing maniacally, but this wasn't how we had ever intended for combat to work - It shouldn't be possible to clear maps solo with virtually no risk of injury.

Zombies are supposed to pose a constant low-level threat to the player which remains consistent throughout the game. They're not difficult to manage if you approach them carefully, but even if you have advanced equipment things can go bad fast if you let your guard down. We didn't want zombies to become generic loot pinatas capable of being mowed down without thought or consequence - Dead State is first and foremost a game grounded in the reality of surviving a catastrophe, and we wanted zombies to be as unforgiving and brutal as a force of nature.

So, to give the short version of this answer: Zombies are supposed to be dangerous. We don't treat them the same way as many other "zombie" games do - These guys aren't chumps, they're frightening and dangerous monsters that wiped out civilization as we know it. They don't just stand around brainlessly until they get killed - They're watching tirelessly, waiting with every still-intact instinct primed and ready to lash out at anything they can infect.

Zombies are people who have been tuned into rabid animals that don't need rest and don't get bored. Intentionally running up to within arms reach of one to try and bash it with a hand-held weapon? It can be done, but it's not too big of a surprise how it usually tuns out. For the most part, unless you're desperate it's almost always a better idea to avoid combat if possible.
Last edited by SunwardMold; Aug 19, 2015 @ 6:57pm
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Date Posted: Aug 12, 2015 @ 11:39am
Posts: 27