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There are gamey tactics you can use to take advantage of soldier stupidity (charging and noise). You can use fire to curtail or funnel their charge. Anything you can throw at them usually has some effect. When the undead start to appear they often change priority and go for them...so making as much noise as possible often works to your advantage.
The gun mechanics...they're just soooo broken. So gamey. It's a pity because the game itself is so good. It's a shame that the combat mechanics...which you have to spend a lot of time with...are not stronger.
As for Grognards. There is always room for a few more...at least 86 by your count. :)
It really is weird how long turns take in this game considering how limited the potential options the AI has to consider are, especially zombies. How exactly something who's AI code should fit on a post-it note can possibly take 5+ seconds to work out where it wants to walk and who to bite is a mystery.
Combat mechanics that cover the range from a pointed stick to an assault rifle are VERY ambitious. The first thing you lose is game balance. A guy with an AK-47 in a tactical vest is always going to POWN someone with a shiv in football shoulder-pads. In that sense the game does well in getting to the point by overlaying gun combat as an extension of melee. All the AI has to figure out is how to close range and deliver hit points.
However, gun combat is so much deeper than that.
What if the guy in foorball pads with a shiv sneaks up behind the guy with the AK-47?
What if the guy with the AK-47 knows that the clip in his gun is the last clip he has?
What if the looter with a shotgun does hide in a closed car? Do you HAVE to go in after him or would it be a better idea to leave the guy alone?
Dead State is a very deep and ambitious game with an amazing open world, many well rounded characters, and well thought out "ground rules" that give the game meaning and the player focus.
Then...in this lavish spa of an open world...the game makes you spend most of your time wallowing in the mud of combat rules that boil down to:
-I see you...you see me.
-CHARGE!
-stab-stab...shoot-shoot
-heal-heal
-done!
There is sooooo much of that. Perhaps the game needs less of a focus on walking around and clicking on things and more focused and meaningful combat...
I do think this game is AMAZING! However, it just could have been so much better with more interesting/deeper/integrated combat mechanics. Fallout-1 was a LONG time ago.
Hunting rifles, shotguns at close range and Max/Guzman with a weapon that causes knockdown, or a character with tazer can even the odds a bit. You really need only a few rounds of them not shooting or throwing stuff at you to take the fight.
Different story in the later half of the game, when you start hitting places like Pauls Army Base or the Retirement village or Austin. By then, if you don't have the workshop/lab up and running...it's going to hurt. Alot.
Definitely more room to mature for the game, I agree. We'll see what the next versions have in store for us!
I love this game a lot. This thing is the closest to a fully realized PnP campaign that I've seen since Wasteland 2. In many ways it's more ambitious and open.
It would be amazing if the devs could do something about the silly gun rules.
Perhaps it's a Unity engine thing? A lot of tactical games have come out in the last year with horrible gun mechanics (Shadowrun:Boston Lockdown, the newest Jagged Alliance). If devs think this type of dumbed down xCom, phone ap, type thing is the meta...then one can only hope for some rules epiphany or better developers.
Invisible Inc, and early access game "Lock & Load: Deadline" are stellar examples of combat mechanics made interesting and that work. I think thouse are Unity Engine games...so there goes my hypothesis.
For games like "Dead State" I'd settle for a LOT less of what they have combat wise if they can't come up with something better. There is so much good in this game...and you have to wade through a lot of cheesy fighting to get to it.
Also, sometimes I just get the hell outta dodge! You can always come back later, and finish the rest of them off.
I've seen good advice here about how to deal with these guys. My biggest gripe is not that you can't beat them, but they seem kinda silly in an otherwise deep game. They really bring out the flaws in the gun combat methodology.
Molotov cocktails work very well. Fire blocks their rush and lets you set up a firing line to put them down. Basically anything you can throw at them...molotivs, grenades, gas...sets you up to cruise into position and take them out. It's worth your while to have on a gasmask or throw your grenades before these guys do that first...and they will...exactly where they can knock down or stun a group and almost always at your character.
I wish that gun combat was better, but I have to admit I'm almost finished with this game and it's been a lot of fun. I'm weary of combat...it's a long grind...but as the game develops it continues to surprise me in other interesting ways.
And personally, if I've got the gear to handle it I like to run right up to Rogue Soldiers and melee the crap out of them. I can usually get a Knockdown or Cripple attack in, and even if they get desperate and try to grenade me they'll hit themselves or their friends while they're at it.