Shirou's Summoning (spoilers)

[HolyThursdayBot]

OK so I've beat all three major routes. I haven't seen every single scene yet or the special scenes, but I'm worried if I don't ask this I'll forget to or something.

Regarding Saber becoming Shirou's servant:
Is it ever made clear how exactly Shirou summons her? I know she was Kiritsugu's servant, so I would assume that has something to do with it. But when we watch the prologue it seems like Tohsaka summoning Archer was a careful ritual. It's not clear to me that Shirou ever did something like that. So what did he do that caused Saber to come to his aid? Sorry if I missed something, but I don't feel like they ever made that clear in any route.

[allknowingeel]

Postat inițial de HolyThursdayBot:

Postat inițial de allknowingeel:

People in the fate community are generally pretty willing to discuss lore. If anything it's something many of us enjoy doing, so you don't need to compensate anyone. Although we can argue a lot about the lore, just look at the history of alter page on the wiki, Slight spoilers for Fate/Samurai remnant as it's primarily about Lancer and who she is and why she is the way she is. People saying "No she's not an alter." and then people saying "She is, even if it's really stupid", to then adding a whole essay on why she is technically but not really an alter. To then having it removed and just made into one sentence, to then having it changed into three sentences.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Servant?action=history

Sometimes I make such changes to my own posts while writing them...though not on that particular subject.

The lancer in fsr is a very popular character. And a lot of people were mad over what was done because it looked as though it had thrown out lore that established 10 year ago in 2015.

[123456789]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

Postat inițial de allknowingeel:

Was her legend jumbled? She seemed to remember stuff pretty clearly from what I remember. She still knew who she was and her own legend.

It was jumbled in her head at the very start, but then she recovered them quickly after their first real battle and decided it was best to keep her identity a secret from her master for their mutual protection after realizing her master was too open/honest for his own good & had little to no defense against interrogation or magecraft.

Can you send or mention the source of that information (I'm not doubting you or something, I just want to know)?

[King Of Lolis]

He had excalibur sheath in him which Kiritsugu placed in him to heal him from fire wounds which then acted as summoning item

[Kenshiro3]

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

He had excalibur sheath in him which Kiritsugu placed in him to heal him from fire wounds which then acted as summoning item

No, he had avalon not Excalibur

[King Of Lolis]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

He had excalibur sheath in him which Kiritsugu placed in him to heal him from fire wounds which then acted as summoning item

No, he had avalon not Excalibur

But avalon is paradise place where merlin is trapped

[Kenshiro3]

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

No, he had avalon not Excalibur

But avalon is paradise place where merlin is trapped

In Fate, it’s also the name of Excalibur’s Scabbard… which is what Kiritsugu put in Shirou

[LahnaMan]

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

He had excalibur sheath in him which Kiritsugu placed in him to heal him from fire wounds which then acted as summoning item

Why didn't Kiritsugu ever retrieve it from Shirou's body after it had done its job?

[Kenshiro3]

Postat inițial de LahnaMan:

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

He had excalibur sheath in him which Kiritsugu placed in him to heal him from fire wounds which then acted as summoning item

Why didn't Kiritsugu ever retrieve it from Shirou's body after it had done its job?

It was his way of protecting his son, beyond his grave. Kiritsugu knew he was dying… since before he found and saved Shirou… as he was cursed to a slow ever more excruciating death by Angra Mainyu (disguised as Irisviel) because he rejected it & destroyed the grail.

[LahnaMan]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

Postat inițial de LahnaMan:

Why didn't Kiritsugu ever retrieve it from Shirou's body after it had done its job?

It was his way of protecting his son, beyond his grave. Kiritsugu knew he was dying… since before he found and saved Shirou… as he was cursed to a slow ever more excruciating death by Angra Mainyu (disguised as Irisviel) because he rejected it & destroyed the grail.

Yet he didn't do a good job teaching Shirou magecraft to prepare him for the 5th Holy Grail War. Did he ever anticipate that Shirou would take part in it?

[Kenshiro3]

Postat inițial de LahnaMan:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

It was his way of protecting his son, beyond his grave. Kiritsugu knew he was dying… since before he found and saved Shirou… as he was cursed to a slow ever more excruciating death by Angra Mainyu (disguised as Irisviel) because he rejected it & destroyed the grail.

Yet he didn't do a good job teaching Shirou magecraft to prepare him for the 5th Holy Grail War. Did he ever anticipate that Shirou would take part in it?

1.) he thought he destroyed the grail, thus ending the grail wars.

2.) he didn’t want shirou to be a mage in the first place… Basically believing that if he didn’t then he would be protected, as other mages would be unaware of him… which is proven to be somewhat true. Basically the ONLY reason he is discovered is because he outed himself as a mage, and entered the war.

3.) those are points actually brought up in the VN. In fact, #2 is something brought up repeatedly.

[King Of Lolis]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

But avalon is paradise place where merlin is trapped

In Fate, it’s also the name of Excalibur’s Scabbard… which is what Kiritsugu put in Shirou

Oh yeah i forgot

[King Of Lolis]

Funny how it just worked in first route because it was shirou,saber focused
Shirou gets hurt ever 5 second so you could say that sheath was carrying him hard through the story

[LahnaMan]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

Postat inițial de LahnaMan:

Yet he didn't do a good job teaching Shirou magecraft to prepare him for the 5th Holy Grail War. Did he ever anticipate that Shirou would take part in it?

1.) he thought he destroyed the grail, thus ending the grail wars.

2.) he didn’t want shirou to be a mage in the first place… Basically believing that if he didn’t then he would be protected, as other mages would be unaware of him… which is proven to be somewhat true. Basically the ONLY reason he is discovered is because he outed himself as a mage, and entered the war.

3.) those are points actually brought up in the VN. In fact, #2 is something brought up repeatedly.

I get it that even a guy like Kiritsugu couldn't plan for and anticipate every contingency. Still, I find it a little strange that he taught Shirou to generate a pseudo-circuit every time he tries to use strengthening instead of simply turning his magic circuits on to do so. This is something that Tohsaka berated late Kiritsugu for.

Besides, Shirou became a target in the 5th Holy Grail War because he witnessed the battle between Archer and Lancer. He only outed himself as a mage when he had to defend himself in his own home.

I understood that Avalon's healing ability is only active when Saber is around. From Heaven's Feel I remember that Shirou lost his healing factor once Saber was consumed by the Shadow.

[Kenshiro3]

Postat inițial de King Of Lolis:

Funny how it just worked in first route because it was shirou,saber focused
Shirou gets hurt ever 5 second so you could say that sheath was carrying him hard through the story

it was.

Postat inițial de LahnaMan:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro3:

1.) he thought he destroyed the grail, thus ending the grail wars.

2.) he didn’t want shirou to be a mage in the first place… Basically believing that if he didn’t then he would be protected, as other mages would be unaware of him… which is proven to be somewhat true. Basically the ONLY reason he is discovered is because he outed himself as a mage, and entered the war.

3.) those are points actually brought up in the VN. In fact, #2 is something brought up repeatedly.

I get it that even a guy like Kiritsugu couldn't plan for and anticipate every contingency. Still, I find it a little strange that he taught Shirou to generate a pseudo-circuit every time he tries to use strengthening instead of simply turning his magic circuits on to do so. This is something that Tohsaka berated late Kiritsugu for.

Besides, Shirou became a target in the 5th Holy Grail War because he witnessed the battle between Archer and Lancer. He only outed himself as a mage when he had to defend himself in his own home.

I understood that Avalon's healing ability is only active when Saber is around. From Heaven's Feel I remember that Shirou lost his healing factor once Saber was consumed by the Shadow.

He taught him to make artificial circuits because he believed Shirou didn't have any magic circuits. It's part of why he didn't want shirou to be a mage in the first place.

As for the reason Shirou became involved in the 5th grail war, yes its because he witnessed the battle. However he only witnessed it due to him basically using his magecraft to fix the stuff in school, and staying way after dark/school closed as a result. So it could be argued that it was a result of his magecraft outing him. I didn't forget this detail. It's why I worded my response the way I did.

Avalon's power is still there. It just isn't as powerful as when Saber is near/linked. That fact is why he didn't die immediately when lancer pierced & destroyed his heart, and why it was actually repairing itself when Tohsaka reconstructed it, It's also implied to be the reason he didn't die/cripple himself every time he made an artificial magic circuit in his body.

[Chaos_Alfa]

You could also say it was by chance Shirou got involved in the 5th grail war. I see it as story logic, which is fine. Stories often need some suspension of disbelieve to work. it's not contingent on him needing to have used magic to become a witness to Archer and Lancer's battle