Shirou's Summoning (spoilers)

[HolyThursdayBot]

OK so I've beat all three major routes. I haven't seen every single scene yet or the special scenes, but I'm worried if I don't ask this I'll forget to or something.

Regarding Saber becoming Shirou's servant:
Is it ever made clear how exactly Shirou summons her? I know she was Kiritsugu's servant, so I would assume that has something to do with it. But when we watch the prologue it seems like Tohsaka summoning Archer was a careful ritual. It's not clear to me that Shirou ever did something like that. So what did he do that caused Saber to come to his aid? Sorry if I missed something, but I don't feel like they ever made that clear in any route.

[Kenshiro3]

Originally posted by HolyThursdayBot:

OK so I've beat all three major routes. I haven't seen every single scene yet or the special scenes, but I'm worried if I don't ask this I'll forget to or something.

Regarding Saber becoming Shirou's servant:
Is it ever made clear how exactly Shirou summons her? I know she was Kiritsugu's servant, so I would assume that has something to do with it. But when we watch the prologue it seems like Tohsaka summoning Archer was a careful ritual. It's not clear to me that Shirou ever did something like that. So what did he do that caused Saber to come to his aid? Sorry if I missed something, but I don't feel like they ever made that clear in any route.

If mem serves it was sort of an accident. He already had Avalon inside him as a catalyst for her summoning due to Kiritsugu putting it in him to save his life during the fire and when Lancer attacked him, he stumbled onto a summoning circle while bleeding and praying for help. His his blood hitting his dad’s summoning circle, along with his catalyst, and subconscious prayer for help met the conditions for the ritual. As a result Sabre was summoned, and he formed a contract with her. This is also why she was an incomplete summoning… as it was not intentional… thus her identity and legend were a jumbled mess in her own mind & was unable to draw mana from him.

EDIT: Also forgot that he had Tosaka’s Pendant she left after reconstructing his heart, to fuel the spell.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Originally posted by HolyThursdayBot:

OK so I've beat all three major routes. I haven't seen every single scene yet or the special scenes, but I'm worried if I don't ask this I'll forget to or something.

Regarding Saber becoming Shirou's servant:
Is it ever made clear how exactly Shirou summons her? I know she was Kiritsugu's servant, so I would assume that has something to do with it. But when we watch the prologue it seems like Tohsaka summoning Archer was a careful ritual. It's not clear to me that Shirou ever did something like that. So what did he do that caused Saber to come to his aid? Sorry if I missed something, but I don't feel like they ever made that clear in any route.

If mem serves it was sort of an accident. He already had Avalon inside him as a catalyst for her summoning due to Kiritsugu putting it in him to save his life during the fire and when Lancer attacked him, he stumbled onto a summoning circle while bleeding and praying for help. His his blood hitting his dad’s summoning circle, along with his catalyst, and subconscious prayer for help met the conditions for the ritual. As a result Sabre was summoned, and he formed a contract with her. This is also why she was an incomplete summoning… as it was not intentional… thus her identity and legend were a jumbled mess in her own mind & was unable to draw mana from him.

EDIT: Also forgot that he had Tosaka’s Pendant she left after reconstructing his heart, to fuel the spell.

Was her legend jumbled? She seemed to remember stuff pretty clearly from what I remember. She still knew who she was and her own legend.

[Kenshiro3]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

If mem serves it was sort of an accident. He already had Avalon inside him as a catalyst for her summoning due to Kiritsugu putting it in him to save his life during the fire and when Lancer attacked him, he stumbled onto a summoning circle while bleeding and praying for help. His his blood hitting his dad’s summoning circle, along with his catalyst, and subconscious prayer for help met the conditions for the ritual. As a result Sabre was summoned, and he formed a contract with her. This is also why she was an incomplete summoning… as it was not intentional… thus her identity and legend were a jumbled mess in her own mind & was unable to draw mana from him.

EDIT: Also forgot that he had Tosaka’s Pendant she left after reconstructing his heart, to fuel the spell.

Was her legend jumbled? She seemed to remember stuff pretty clearly from what I remember. She still knew who she was and her own legend.

It was jumbled in her head at the very start, but then she recovered them quickly after their first real battle and decided it was best to keep her identity a secret from her master for their mutual protection after realizing her master was too open/honest for his own good & had little to no defense against interrogation or magecraft.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Was her legend jumbled? She seemed to remember stuff pretty clearly from what I remember. She still knew who she was and her own legend.

It was jumbled in her head at the very start, but then she recovered them quickly after their first real battle and decided it was best to keep her identity a secret from her master for their mutual protection after realizing her master was too open/honest for his own good & had little to no defense against interrogation or magecraft.

Oh that makes more sense, alright.

[LahnaMan]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Was her legend jumbled? She seemed to remember stuff pretty clearly from what I remember. She still knew who she was and her own legend.

It was jumbled in her head at the very start, but then she recovered them quickly after their first real battle and decided it was best to keep her identity a secret from her master for their mutual protection after realizing her master was too open/honest for his own good & had little to no defense against interrogation or magecraft.

She still remembered a lot from the very start considering how early in the Heaven's Feel route she remembered a lot of stuff from the 4th Holy Grail War.

[Kenshiro3]

Originally posted by LahnaMan:

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

It was jumbled in her head at the very start, but then she recovered them quickly after their first real battle and decided it was best to keep her identity a secret from her master for their mutual protection after realizing her master was too open/honest for his own good & had little to no defense against interrogation or magecraft.

She still remembered a lot from the very start considering how early in the Heaven's Feel route she remembered a lot of stuff from the 4th Holy Grail War.

Yeah but there were also big gaps and a lot out of order, at first… because shiro wasnt trying to summon her specifically, & calling on her legend… and the disordered state of his mind when he summoned her.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Originally posted by LahnaMan:

She still remembered a lot from the very start considering how early in the Heaven's Feel route she remembered a lot of stuff from the 4th Holy Grail War.

Yeah but there were also big gaps and a lot out of order, at first… because shiro wasnt trying to summon her specifically, & calling on her legend… and the disordered state of his mind when he summoned her.

We also have to keep in mind that she is not like most servants. She is actually a living servant. So certain things don't apply to her in regards to memories. And how in Fuyuki servants tend not to retain stuff when they go back to throne with integrated memories, because the corrupted grail eats them. But in other systems it does get added to their memories but in an impartial way like reading a book. But in some cases if something is traumatic or emotional enough then it can impact the heroic spirit and later summonings of the servant. Such as Jeanne and Atalante. Emiya too due to him being a counter guardian and not on the actual throne.

[LahnaMan]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Yeah but there were also big gaps and a lot out of order, at first… because shiro wasnt trying to summon her specifically, & calling on her legend… and the disordered state of his mind when he summoned her.

She knew enough that Shirou mentioning the name Einzbern triggered some of Saber's memories and she also knew enough to direct him to ask Kotomine for more information.

[HolyThursdayBot]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Originally posted by HolyThursdayBot:

OK so I've beat all three major routes. I haven't seen every single scene yet or the special scenes, but I'm worried if I don't ask this I'll forget to or something.

Regarding Saber becoming Shirou's servant:
Is it ever made clear how exactly Shirou summons her? I know she was Kiritsugu's servant, so I would assume that has something to do with it. But when we watch the prologue it seems like Tohsaka summoning Archer was a careful ritual. It's not clear to me that Shirou ever did something like that. So what did he do that caused Saber to come to his aid? Sorry if I missed something, but I don't feel like they ever made that clear in any route.

If mem serves it was sort of an accident. He already had Avalon inside him as a catalyst for her summoning due to Kiritsugu putting it in him to save his life during the fire and when Lancer attacked him, he stumbled onto a summoning circle while bleeding and praying for help. His his blood hitting his dad’s summoning circle, along with his catalyst, and subconscious prayer for help met the conditions for the ritual. As a result Sabre was summoned, and he formed a contract with her. This is also why she was an incomplete summoning… as it was not intentional… thus her identity and legend were a jumbled mess in her own mind & was unable to draw mana from him.

EDIT: Also forgot that he had Tosaka’s Pendant she left after reconstructing his heart, to fuel the spell.

I'm sorry I'm not offering this to everyone in the thread who made a decent contribution, but I'm not extremely rich. If you would like, Kenshiro, I will friend you (or you can friend me) and I will give you a steam gift card for $5. You can unfriend me after, I don't mind.

[Kenshiro3]

No thanks needed.

[HolyThursdayBot]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

No thanks needed.

OK. Since you declined it, I probably won't keep offering this bonus in the future. I probably should've learned the phrase "money is no object" by now, assuming that's kind of what it means. Thank you very much though.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by HolyThursdayBot:

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

No thanks needed.

OK. Since you declined it, I probably won't keep offering this bonus in the future. I probably should've learned the phrase "money is no object" by now, assuming that's kind of what it means. Thank you very much though.

People in the fate community are generally pretty willing to discuss lore. If anything it's something many of us enjoy doing, so you don't need to compensate anyone. Although we can argue a lot about the lore, just look at the history of alter page on the wiki, Slight spoilers for Fate/Samurai remnant as it's primarily about Lancer and who she is and why she is the way she is. People saying "No she's not an alter." and then people saying "She is, even if it's really stupid", to then adding a whole essay on why she is technically but not really an alter. To then having it removed and just made into one sentence, to then having it changed into three sentences.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Servant?action=history

[Kenshiro3]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Originally posted by HolyThursdayBot:

OK. Since you declined it, I probably won't keep offering this bonus in the future. I probably should've learned the phrase "money is no object" by now, assuming that's kind of what it means. Thank you very much though.

People in the fate community are generally pretty willing to discuss lore. If anything it's something many of us enjoy doing, so you don't need to compensate anyone. Although we can argue a lot about the lore, just look at the history of alter page on the wiki, Slight spoilers for Fate/Samurai remnant as it's primarily about Lancer and who she is and why she is the way she is. People saying "No she's not an alter." and then people saying "She is, even if it's really stupid", to then adding a whole essay on why she is technically but not really an alter. To then having it removed and just made into one sentence, to then having it changed into three sentences.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Servant?action=history

Exactly.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

People in the fate community are generally pretty willing to discuss lore. If anything it's something many of us enjoy doing, so you don't need to compensate anyone. Although we can argue a lot about the lore, just look at the history of alter page on the wiki, Slight spoilers for Fate/Samurai remnant as it's primarily about Lancer and who she is and why she is the way she is. People saying "No she's not an alter." and then people saying "She is, even if it's really stupid", to then adding a whole essay on why she is technically but not really an alter. To then having it removed and just made into one sentence, to then having it changed into three sentences.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Servant?action=history

Exactly.

Also, if anyone wants to talk about Lancer in Fate/Samurai Remnant, I’m always happy to discuss her. I’ve written several essays about her because I really enjoy her character, and I dislike seeing comments like 'FSR ruined her character' or 'FSR broke the lore.' After digging into the materials and her role in the story, I can confidently say that it didn’t ruin anything. It’s just a different, more tragic take on her that still respects the established lore about her being incorruptible.
If you’re curious or want to discuss, feel free to DM me or check out this post where I go into more detail:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fatesamurairemnantjp/comments/1hsb1v6/possible_spoilers_i_feel_like_jeanne_in_fate/

[HolyThursdayBot]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Originally posted by HolyThursdayBot:

OK. Since you declined it, I probably won't keep offering this bonus in the future. I probably should've learned the phrase "money is no object" by now, assuming that's kind of what it means. Thank you very much though.

People in the fate community are generally pretty willing to discuss lore. If anything it's something many of us enjoy doing, so you don't need to compensate anyone. Although we can argue a lot about the lore, just look at the history of alter page on the wiki, Slight spoilers for Fate/Samurai remnant as it's primarily about Lancer and who she is and why she is the way she is. People saying "No she's not an alter." and then people saying "She is, even if it's really stupid", to then adding a whole essay on why she is technically but not really an alter. To then having it removed and just made into one sentence, to then having it changed into three sentences.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Servant?action=history

Sometimes I make such changes to my own posts while writing them...though not on that particular subject.