This vs the anime?

[krazypickle]

I loved the anime, I cant see why i'd like this....its all still frames?

[allknowingeel]

Because the anime watered down all the characters to basic tropes and cut out 65% of the character building and character moments, as well as most explanations for all magecraft, like how Caster's magecraft works. And if you haven't seen the Dean anime, which is also a pretty bad adaptation, then you're missing an entire route, the fate route which finishes up Sabers character arc. Not to mention the anime makes Shirou out to be a bland mc when the vn makes him one of the most interesting characters in Fate. And while I have yet to play it, I hear that Heaven's Feel was terrible as an adaptation and was mostly made for fans of the vn.

EDIT: This isn't to ♥♥♥♥ on people who like the anime or started out with it. But the reason people like the vn is because it's the full story, no important parts left out or not explained due to time constraints.

[krazypickle]

i really appreciate this in depth reply, ill look further into it, considering how much the love the water down anime version. Thank you

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by krazypickle:

i really appreciate this in depth reply, ill look further into it, considering how much the love the water down anime version. Thank you

No problem. Also worth noting I started with the anime, and thought that I wouldn't like the vn, and now I can safely say that after watching the ubw anime and reading the route, the vn made a lot more sense to me. Like for example, how did Cu survive the command spell order of killing himself?, all explained when you look at the status tab and seeing what one of his abilities is. And Archer's backstory is fully completed in ubw, because there were some parts that were not well explained, such as what exactly was he doing before becoming a servant? You get a basic rundown in the anime but in the vn you find out a lot more. Not to mention you'll start with the fate route, which even if you saw the broken version by Studio Dean, will be a pretty new experience and you'll come out with a better understanding of Saber, and find that she's more than just generic honourable female knight character.

[NotAfan]

In my personal opinion, Ufotable's adaptations are great and perfectly valid and fine way for you to experience the story (with the caveat you'd "skip" one of the routes since that one was animated back in 2006 by a different studio that did a decent, but overall not great job). I'd argue some things are better, some things are worse, as it usually is with any adaptation from such a dense original work.

It all depends on what medium interests you more. I really like visual novels, it's the medium that I enjoy the most. If you prefer anime, I don't see any reason to force yourself through something that may not be for you, not when there are quality adaptations out there. People tend to become very defensive and kinda purist about the adaptations like they are gonna ruin everyone's experiences, but I think they are fine. More than fine, they're great. I think the first Heaven's Feel movie alone is just spectacular.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by NotAfan:

In my personal opinion, Ufotable's adaptations are great and perfectly valid and fine way for you to experience the story (with the caveat you'd "skip" one of the routes since that one was animated back in 2006 by a different studio that did a decent, but overall not great job). I'd argue some things are better, some things are worse, as it usually is with any adaptation from such a dense original work.

It all depends on what medium interests you more. I really like visual novels, it's the medium that I enjoy the most. If you prefer anime, I don't see any reason to force yourself through something that may not be for you, not when there are quality adaptations out there. People tend to become very defensive and kinda purist about the adaptations like they are gonna ruin everyone's experiences, but I think they are fine. More than fine, they're great. I think the first Heaven's Feel movie alone is just spectacular.

I can't agree with an adaptation that cuts out all but one of Shirou's internal monologues. Those are what make his character work and what makes him interesting. Without it, he doesn't make sense. That and all the other things it cuts just doesn't make what UFOtable offers enough for me to recommend it. For example this video illustrates perfectly what teh issues I have with Shirou in the anime are. Keep in mind this video was 6 years ago before the vn was officially released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8zwc-jz6M

[MeldinX2]

I mean i think obviously reading a 80-90 hour long Visual novel is going to have WAY more content than an anime could. Espacially since they need an Anime to be more flashy where things happen more often with less downtime. It's kind of like comparing a book to a movie. The book will usually explain details and things alot better. But you need more imagination and focus also.

The ufotable Anime and movies for Fate/stay night is in my opinion excellent. And are very fun to watch. But i do think the VN is worth reading regardless if you watched the show or not. It just have more character moments and development in general. But it is slower paced as a result.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by MeldinX2:

I mean i think obviously reading a 80-90 hour long Visual novel is going to have WAY more content than an anime could. Espacially since they need an Anime to be more flashy where things happen more often with less downtime. It's kind of like comparing a book to a movie. The book will usually explain details and things alot better. But you need more imagination and focus also.

The ufotable Anime and movies for Fate/stay night is in my opinion excellent. And are very fun to watch. But i do think the VN is worth reading regardless if you watched the show or not. It just have more character moments and development in general. But it is slower paced as a result.

But I see no reason why the anime can't explore Shirou's survivors guilt. The anime had most scenes the vn did, but just didn't include the monologues. It's like they went halfway. In the park episode, would it have been that hard make Shirou say inside his head, "I don't deserve this, I can't allow myself the privilege of enjoying this". It's small things like that make me not like it. There are many instances of this where they could have included his monologue in some way, like many amines do, but just didn't for some reason. The anime is certainly fun to watch, it looks amazing, but if it did small things like that, then I would recommend it. And I do think the anime made a few things better. Caster attacking them on the bridge instead of showing up in Shirou's home made more sense and made them escaping more urgent. And Ea being fired at the monster hand of the grail and the shock waves grazing Shirou was a lot better too.

[kiteless 凧無し]

I enjoyed all the animes but the VN is peak Fate Stay Night

I think the thing I disliked the most about the animes is how basically next to none of the music from the VN was used, to never hear 'kienai omoi' 消えない想い in the anime was just criminal

VN is about as good as VN's get, it's a must read

[NotAfan]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Originally posted by NotAfan:

In my personal opinion, Ufotable's adaptations are great and perfectly valid and fine way for you to experience the story (with the caveat you'd "skip" one of the routes since that one was animated back in 2006 by a different studio that did a decent, but overall not great job). I'd argue some things are better, some things are worse, as it usually is with any adaptation from such a dense original work.

It all depends on what medium interests you more. I really like visual novels, it's the medium that I enjoy the most. If you prefer anime, I don't see any reason to force yourself through something that may not be for you, not when there are quality adaptations out there. People tend to become very defensive and kinda purist about the adaptations like they are gonna ruin everyone's experiences, but I think they are fine. More than fine, they're great. I think the first Heaven's Feel movie alone is just spectacular.

I can't agree with an adaptation that cuts out all but one of Shirou's internal monologues. Those are what make his character work and what makes him interesting. Without it, he doesn't make sense. That and all the other things it cuts just doesn't make what UFOtable offers enough for me to recommend it. For example this video illustrates perfectly what teh issues I have with Shirou in the anime are. Keep in mind this video was 6 years ago before the vn was officially released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8zwc-jz6M

I agree with the video to an extent, and I do think that's a downside from the adaptation, but I don't think it's that bad or that you completely miss on Shirou's character as a result. The problem is that the many monologues just don't lend themselves well to the anime format, you need to find other ways to convey that through visuals. One problem the UBW anime has IMO is that it tries to cram a lot of the monologues in (Nasu did write the scripts if I'm not mistaken). Archer and Shirou's battle in particular suffers from it, because it's basically 2 episodes of them throwing grand speeches at each other (a lot of which were originally first person prose) instead of actually fighting.

A good example of turning it around and using the animation medium's strengths is a particular scene in the second Heaven's Feel movie, when Shirou considers killing Sakura before deciding against it. In the original VN, the scene is a lengthy first person description of Shirou fighting against his ideals of justice and his love for Sakura in his head, knife in hand. For the adaptation, they did the following: Shirou comes into the room, Sakura's asleep (well, pretending, but we don't know that yet). He raises the knife and stops mid-movement. His expression contorts and his whole body trembles as he looks at Sakura, flashbacks of their time together flashing at the screen, until he lowers the knife and exhibits a tired smile. The distant voice of Archer in Shirou's head is heard: "Are you going to betray your ideals?". Shirou turns his back to Sakura while looking down and says out loud "yes, I will".
It conveys pretty much the same thing the original scene did, using that medium's strength's in a fraction of the time.

But again, whatever floats your boat. The VN certainly has the most brute ratio of information compared to the anime, but I think both mediums are perfectly valid. If VNs are not the OP's cup of tea, the anime adaptations by Ufotable are a valid way to experience the story, though I suppose they would just miss Fate...which to me is a pretty "meh" route anyway.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by NotAfan:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

I can't agree with an adaptation that cuts out all but one of Shirou's internal monologues. Those are what make his character work and what makes him interesting. Without it, he doesn't make sense. That and all the other things it cuts just doesn't make what UFOtable offers enough for me to recommend it. For example this video illustrates perfectly what teh issues I have with Shirou in the anime are. Keep in mind this video was 6 years ago before the vn was officially released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8zwc-jz6M

I agree with the video to an extent, and I do think that's a downside from the adaptation, but I don't think it's that bad or that you completely miss on Shirou's character as a result. The problem is that the many monologues just don't lend themselves well to the anime format, you need to find other ways to convey that through visuals. One problem the UBW anime has IMO is that it tries to cram a lot of the monologues in (Nasu did write the scripts if I'm not mistaken). Archer and Shirou's battle in particular suffers from it, because it's basically 2 episodes of them throwing grand speeches at each other (a lot of which were originally first person prose) instead of actually fighting.

A good example of turning it around and using the animation medium's strengths is a particular scene in the second Heaven's Feel movie, when Shirou considers killing Sakura before deciding against it. In the original VN, the scene is a lengthy first person description of Shirou fighting against his ideals of justice and his love for Sakura in his head, knife in hand. For the adaptation, they did the following: Shirou comes into the room, Sakura's asleep (well, pretending, but we don't know that yet). He raises the knife and stops mid-movement. His expression contorts and his whole body trembles as he looks at Sakura, flashbacks of their time together flashing at the screen, until he lowers the knife and exhibits a tired smile. The distant voice of Archer in Shirou's head is heard: "Are you going to betray your ideals?". Shirou turns his back to Sakura while looking down and says out loud "yes, I will".
It conveys pretty much the same thing the original scene did, using that medium's strength's in a fraction of the time.

But again, whatever floats your boat. The VN certainly has the most brute ratio of information compared to the anime, but I think both mediums are perfectly valid. If VNs are not the OP's cup of tea, the anime adaptations by Ufotable are a valid way to experience the story, though I suppose they would just miss Fate...which to me is a pretty "meh" route anyway.

I disagree partly with you on not being able to include monologues, while not all of them can be included, because it would kill the pacing and scene to freeze everything while Shirou goes on an 80 line monologue, small and abridged versions can be included. Some 2 line monologues could be said with basically no run time lost, Like the example I gave earlier of the park and that the video shows, it's like 3 lines, and could even be shortened, and that would show it just fine in the anime medium. There is a part of that scene where Shirou looks away and seemingly has the thought in his head as the realisation hits him, but we don't hear it, that would be a perfect thing that they could very easily do. Hell without it he's just staring at the camera blankly for a few seconds.

I agree that the Heavens Feel movies do a better job in general, that is partly due to the directors being different, Takahiro Miura was the director of the ubw anime, while Tomonori Sudou was the director of the films for Heavens Feel. So part of it more due to a directing problem.