With this release steamworld has become entirely full of itself

[Virtual_Bĭch]

What has made the steamworld games historically special is that they provided a unique take on well-trodden gameplay formulas in a fun steam-powered flavor. these were gameplay-first, exceedingly tightly designed forays and until recently have been excellent for that. in particular I am taking about TD, Dig, heist, and dig 2.

steamworld heist 2 is not that. steamworld heist 2 shows that steamworld now feels invested enough in itself that it can make the player sit through more lore/characters/story than actual gameplay, which is in ways a regression from the original. it feels confident putting cooldowns between missions, and cramming this tertiary submarine auto-battler-traversal-thing in. things that in no way serve the core design of tactical gameplay and just serve to put further distance between said tactical gameplay and the player. this is a pretty stark shift and concerning to see, for me.

I would not look forward to a steamworld dig 3 that takes this kind of 'everything and the kitchen sink' approach over a singular, honed focus on exploring a single gameplay style to its fullest as dig, dig 2, and heist have done.

[Conky]

A game for everyone is a game for no one.

[Virtual_Bĭch]

Originally posted by Conky:

A game for everyone is a game for no one.

I would agree, but it seems like players are unfortunately satisfied with this bloated approach (going off of the reviews) so I feel kind of crazy. I am at least glad the few negative reviews seem to hit on the problems I outline but its the cry of few against the praise of many.

[tutzdes]

Originally posted by Virtual_Bĭch:

I would agree, but it seems like players are unfortunately satisfied with this bloated approach (going off of the reviews) so I feel kind of crazy. I am at least glad the few negative reviews seem to hit on the problems I outline but its the cry of few against the praise of many.

Negative review means that game was bad and reviewer doesn't recommend playing it. Heist 2 is not a bad game and worth the time playing. It's just not better than Heist 1.

So I do not see any reason to give the game negative review.

[Virtual_Bĭch]

Originally posted by tutzdes:

Originally posted by Virtual_Bĭch:

I would agree, but it seems like players are unfortunately satisfied with this bloated approach (going off of the reviews) so I feel kind of crazy. I am at least glad the few negative reviews seem to hit on the problems I outline but its the cry of few against the praise of many.

Negative review means that game was bad and reviewer doesn't recommend playing it. Heist 2 is not a bad game and worth the time playing. It's just not better than Heist 1.

So I do not see any reason to give the game negative review.

thats a fair take, not one I particularly agree with but I understand where you are coming from. personally I think developers regressing in their design from older games (particularly within a series of games) warrants negativity, even if the game is- in a vacuum- not entirely bad. if I have to claw through a games fluff to get at the things that made its predecessor great it doesnt matter that those bright elements are there when the negative elements outshine them, again for me personally. I dont expect others to totally feel this way and frankly its clear they dont from the reviews.

[Conky]

All I want is a tactics game. Hopefully the devs notice that my criticism is coming from a place of someone who already loves their games.

[Conky]

Originally posted by tutzdes:

Originally posted by Virtual_Bĭch:

I would agree, but it seems like players are unfortunately satisfied with this bloated approach (going off of the reviews) so I feel kind of crazy. I am at least glad the few negative reviews seem to hit on the problems I outline but its the cry of few against the praise of many.

Negative review means that game was bad and reviewer doesn't recommend playing it. Heist 2 is not a bad game and worth the time playing. It's just not better than Heist 1.

So I do not see any reason to give the game negative review.

I don't recommend not playing the game on it's own. I recommend not playing the game if you are a steamworld fan. If you have never played heist before then I have no reason to recommend against 2.

[GIRL]

After beating the game 3 times, I can say I like it better than the original (which I only bothered to play once). The only thing I'm really torn is the bounty/refresh mechanic. I wish that could be toggled off at the start of a playthrough. Personally, I don't mind it, but I don't really get what it adds to the experience, and I can see why people dislike it.

The submarine combat I enjoy. And the story I enjoy. If you don't like the story, great news - you can skip just about every cutscene and dialogue in the game.

But, if the devs are reading this thread, some QoL features I'd definitely recommend implementing eventually, if possible, would be:
- Option to make your submarine unkillable (for narrative tension, it could still be damaged, just never going below 1 "hp" or however it's calculated).
- Option to remove the need to rest at bars, save for narrative reasons (you could still rest to get bounty, but characters would not get "exhausted" after a mission).
- Ability to switch gear from exhausted characters to characters who haven't done a mission yet that day. This one really bugs me, actually.
- Fast travel between bars you've already visited, except when narratively it wouldn't make sense (like the escape sequence after you get the ability to dive).
- Option to disable all cutscene/dialogue in a mission so you don't have to spam 'skip' over and over. For narrative purposes, this could maybe only be enabled per mission after completing it once.
- Option to skip the entire enemy turn (waiting for like 5 bone guys to launch grenades at you is physically painful to the player).
- Option to favorite items and mass-sell all non-favorited items.
- More than 3 save slots. 10 would probably satisfy anyone who wants more.

And most importantly,

- Saved loadouts on classes for different jobs. God, I wish this were a thing. Let me save a few loadouts per character, I want to switch between jobs for funsies without the hassle of re-assigning all my cogs and equipment.

Overall though, I think the game is a huge step up from 1. Going back to 1, it actually feels weird there's no space combat. I mean, all these spaceships, including ones from a supposed "oppressive military regime," and not one of them can fire on anyone else? All battles have to be done via boarding party? Seems pretty silly. If we get a Heist III someday that's set back in space, spaceship combat would be pretty awesome.

[Virtual_Bĭch]

alright

[mocaccino]

Originally posted by Virtual_Bĭch:

thats a fair take, not one I particularly agree with but I understand where you are coming from. personally I think developers regressing in their design from older games (particularly within a series of games) warrants negativity, even if the game is- in a vacuum- not entirely bad. if I have to claw through a games fluff to get at the things that made its predecessor great it doesnt matter that those bright elements are there when the negative elements outshine them, again for me personally. I dont expect others to totally feel this way and frankly its clear they dont from the reviews.

Well put!

[Yukeh]

I picked this up a couple days ago and have been having a blast - it improves on everything I liked about the first one, and fills in more of what I felt was missing! I think your thoughts about the story-heavier approach are fine - but you're also completely disregarding the fact you can skip every single cutscene in the game (and even the entire movement part of turns) on your very first time viewing them.


Perhaps you should go back and play the first game again, to refresh your memory and untint those rose-coloured glasses. From what I've seen up to now, this game does everything better - I'm absolutely in love with it and its character designs!


And of course, not every game will be for you. Perhaps this just isn't your kind of game. That doesn't mean the game is regressing in its formula or that it's a bad game, just that it's different from your preferences - because seriously, gameplay and mechanics wise there is absolutely nothing this game does worse than the first, unless you consider having build options and skillset flexibility a negative, in which case that is fair too - some people prefer streamlined railroad experiences too.

[Conky]

Originally posted by Yukeh:

but you're also completely disregarding the fact you can skip every single cutscene in the game....

You cannot skip the mundane chit chat that is tacked on with the boring parts of the game. Having to tap a button over and over to advance text is not the same as skipping something.

I absolutely don't care what any of the characters has to say.

The things that people are complaining about are being presented very clearly and boil down to wanting more strategy game and less house keeping.

[mocaccino]

I play the first game every now and a while fyi. It is better simply because focus on what it's most important: turn based tactics.
Not management ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like this version.

[Virtual_Bĭch]

Originally posted by Yukeh:

I picked this up a couple days ago and have been having a blast - it improves on everything I liked about the first one, and fills in more of what I felt was missing! I think your thoughts about the story-heavier approach are fine - but you're also completely disregarding the fact you can skip every single cutscene in the game (and even the entire movement part of turns) on your very first time viewing them.


Perhaps you should go back and play the first game again, to refresh your memory and untint those rose-coloured glasses. From what I've seen up to now, this game does everything better - I'm absolutely in love with it and its character designs!


And of course, not every game will be for you. Perhaps this just isn't your kind of game. That doesn't mean the game is regressing in its formula or that it's a bad game, just that it's different from your preferences - because seriously, gameplay and mechanics wise there is absolutely nothing this game does worse than the first, unless you consider having build options and skillset flexibility a negative, in which case that is fair too - some people prefer streamlined railroad experiences too.

to be specific, in terms of bare mechanics its only *as good* as the first game, and you have to wade thru slop to get to that *as good* gameplay. it doesnt help that, in my experience, the controls are much, much less functional with the mouse- as well as having issues with keybinding/doublebinding that simply didnt exist in the first game.

im glad you like to sit thru a bunch of drivel about one off characters but I do not and I do not find the game to be- for making me sit through all of this, with worse controls- a better experience than the first. my preference is that I enjoy the heist gameplay, not bullsh|t, not conversations, not the stupid submarine overworld crap.

bulsh|t, overworld crap, and chit-chat between characters I do not care about are the overwhelmingly prevalent elements of the game. thats why im disappointed. because the sequel to a game I loved is full of crap and prioritizes that crap over compelling gameplay.

[GIRL]

Originally posted by Virtual_Bĭch:

because the sequel to a game I loved is full of crap and prioritizes that crap over compelling gameplay.

It's not "full of crap," though, it's full of things you personally dislike. To many, they're improvements. Who's to say which opinion is objectively right? Nobody, because opinions are subjective. You've voiced your feedback, that's all that can be done here. Aside from the devs adding a feature to completely remove dialogue and the submarine elements, which I doubt would be easy, or even feasible given the framework of the game's linear storytelling design.

[Virtual_Bĭch]

alright